The New Guilds and Player Owned Stations Discussion Thread.

[Cmdr Corran Antilles]

All a guild is is a group of players thar have common goals. The first layer of them is basically having a list of who is in the guild. Usually you can see a version of that list that shows who is online. The second layer is a chat channel and possibly an officer channel. Often times there is a message of the day. Some games have expanded on this with guild banks or buildings or territory capture the flag style mechanics ships etc.

One can tune the features to fit what you want aND to fit them to what works with the game. Eve probably went too far in giving territory. I don't know I never played it. If it were me I would limit it to a single system tops. But that is not even needed. Layer one and two are what we are really missing. The other stuff could be interestingly if done right. But that is a separate issue where I think most don't have a clear idea of how to do it right.

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You see that info as an incentive for me to accept big guild things. I see it as an argument that FD should just leave be, the problem is solved. Guilds = Groups. Done. I don't see any trouble with some improved, targeted, Comm's systems. I do see trouble with the entirety of the Guilders intentions.

That would be you projecting on us what you think we would do. Which is rather rude.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Here is part of the problem.

How can you be a Commander of your own ship, a real entity in space and flying around and doing your own thing whenever it pleases you - to have some "officer" who has absolutely no authority over you trying to tell you what to do? They aren't officers if you are in sole command of your ship. They are simply jumped up jobsbodies - and nobody needs them. This is Elite - not Bootcamp.

 

[Fire70]

All a guild is is a group of players thar have common goals. The first layer of them is basically having a list of who is in the guild. Usually you can see a version of that list that shows who is online. The second layer is a chat channel and possibly an officer channel. Often times there is a message of the day. Some games have expanded on this with guild banks or buildings or territory capture the flag style mechanics ships etc.

One can tune the features to fit what you want aND to fit them to what works with the game. Eve probably went too far in giving territory. I don't know I never played it. If it were me I would limit it to a single system tops. But that is not even needed. Layer one and two are what we are really missing. The other stuff could be interestingly if done right. But that is a separate issue where I think most don't have a clear idea of how to do it right.pdated - - -



That would be you projecting on us what you think we would do. Which is rather rude.

Having a way to liaise with players in a large group would be beneficial to the game (well except for a few here who seem to be scared if it, won't affect solo in any way)..

Given the size of the galaxy I wouldn't even me that worried about them being able to control systems..

 

[Sysmon]

Here is part of the problem.

How can you be a Commander of your own ship, a real entity in space and flying around and doing your own thing whenever it pleases you - to have some "officer" who has absolutely no authority over you trying to tell you what to do? They aren't officers if you are in sole command of your ship. They are simply jumped up jobsbodies - and nobody needs them. This is Elite - not Bootcamp.

Can't rep you more, Aspie-baby. But I agree, how is it 'blazing your own trail' if you want to have someone else tell you how and where to blaze it?

S

 

[Soliluna]

Here is part of the problem.

How can you be a Commander of your own ship, a real entity in space and flying around and doing your own thing whenever it pleases you - to have some "officer" who has absolutely no authority over you trying to tell you what to do? They aren't officers if you are in sole command of your ship. They are simply jumped up jobsbodies - and nobody needs them. This is Elite - not Bootcamp.

What about those bread winners flying security vessels?

 

[Mohrgan]

All a guild is is a group of players thar have common goals. The first layer of them is basically having a list of who is in the guild. Usually you can see a version of that list that shows who is online. The second layer is a chat channel and possibly an officer channel. Often times there is a message of the day. Some games have expanded on this with guild banks or buildings or territory capture the flag style mechanics ships etc.

One can tune the features to fit what you want aND to fit them to what works with the game. Eve probably went too far in giving territory. I don't know I never played it. If it were me I would limit it to a single system tops. But that is not even needed. Layer one and two are what we are really missing. The other stuff could be interestingly if done right. But that is a separate issue where I think most don't have a clear idea of how to do it right.

Even in this very even handed, consideration of the issue. Where our messages mostly jive, you couldn't resist wandering into suggestions of banks, buildings, and territory. If we can convince the pro-guild side to accept a Comm's only approach, I believe, you would see far less backlash on the issue.

 

[Soliluna]

Can't rep you more, Aspie-baby. But I agree, how is it 'blazing your own trail' if you want to have someone else tell you how and where to blaze it?

S

Presumably... you chose to have them as your officer ... -_-

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Even in this very even handed, consideration of the issue. Where our messages mostly jive, you couldn't resist wandering into suggestions of banks, buildings, and territory. If we can convince the pro-guild side to accept a Comm's only approach, I believe, you would see far less backlash on the issue.

Essentially what we are asking for then is in game irc. Not a bad thing at all.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Can't rep you more, Aspie-baby. But I agree, how is it 'blazing your own trail' if you want to have someone else tell you how and where to blaze it?

S

Simply put, some people need to be told what to do and given direction in games, and spoon-fed stuff so that they feel like they are getting someplace. Sad really.

With many guild members, if three were taken by behind a shed by their guild-boss and offered three shovels and told to take their pick, there would be a HUAGE burst of teamspeak chat about "Which one is purple gear" or "Which meta betters?" and the inevitable "WIC PWNS MOAR?!?!" - there would be a considered silence before all three say "Dere is NOA PICK!" - and then all you'd hear would be three bangs.

 

[Cmdr Corran Antilles]

Here is part of the problem.

How can you be a Commander of your own ship, a real entity in space and flying around and doing your own thing whenever it pleases you - to have some "officer" who has absolutely no authority over you trying to tell you what to do? They aren't officers if you are in sole command of your ship. They are simply jumped up jobsbodies - and nobody needs them. This is Elite - not Bootcamp.

I have literally never had that happen. And if I did I would leave that guild. But then if you don't want to be in a guild no one is making you be in one.

You want to play by your self I get it. I would like to be able to play with friends. Why is my way less valid than your way? You seem to project a lot of stuff onto guilds that the majority of the time does not exist
Mostly because no one has any authority. An officers job really is to kick out players that are jeeps or sabotaging the group in some way.

 

[Fire70]

Simply put, some people need to be told what to do and given direction in games, and spoon-fed stuff so that they feel like they are getting someplace. Sad really.

With many guild members, if three were taken by behind a shed by their guild-boss and offered three shovels and told to take their pick, there would be a HUAGE burst of teamspeak chat about "Which one is purple gear" or "Which meta betters?" and the inevitable "WIC PWNS MOAR?!?!" - there would be a considered silence before all three say "Dere is NOA PICK!" - and then all you'd hear would be three bangs.

LOL Asp really?!? You think people only work together because they have no imagination to do it for themselves!?!

Immersion is the key and working with human players is still far more immersive than computers, technology still has a fair way to go...

 

[Darkphoenix]

Even in this very even handed, consideration of the issue. Where our messages mostly jive, you couldn't resist wandering into suggestions of banks, buildings, and territory. If we can convince the pro-guild side to accept a Comm's only approach, I believe, you would see far less backlash on the issue.

I personally would be fine with improved comms......it is all the other stuff that guilds entail that I want to see Elite have no part of......

groups of players don't need shared storage of modules and money and even though there are groups already in game that exist as organized groups I don't really think they need the things that will make claiming systems as their own and killing unaligned pilots trespassing on what they consider their "home systems" any easier or more attractive to the types of players that like acting like schoolyard bullies.....

You can argue all you want and say it is a PvP problem, not a guild problem but the one point you can't logically refute is that it would make things all the easier for that type of group and that is something I would rather Elite just not cater to.

 

[Asp Explorer]

I have literally never had that happen. And if I did I would leave that guild. But then if you don't want to be in a guild no one is making you be in one.

You want to play by your self I get it. I would like to be able to play with friends. Why is my way less valid than your way? You seem to project a lot of stuff onto guilds that the majority of the time does not exist
Mostly because no one has any authority. An officers job really is to kick out players that are jeeps or sabotaging the group in some way.

ALL ways of playing are all equally valid. Shouty groups should not gain advantage by being shouty.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Well, if people can take a break from having a go at each other and dissecting each others comments, perhaps we can take a step back and get some clarity on the topic here from the pro-guild people?

Pro-guild guys. Let's see if we can get some consensus from you as to what exactly you want and why.

1) What exactly do you want?

2) Why do you want it?

Please, be as clear and concise as possible.

Everyone else, can you lie low for a little while until these important questions are answered?

I appreciate some people might have tried to answer these questions some time in the last 100 pages but its hard to filter through all the noise.

 

[Stealth Gamer92]

I have literally never had that happen. And if I did I would leave that guild. But then if you don't want to be in a guild no one is making you be in one.

You want to play by your self I get it. I would like to be able to play with friends. Why is my way less valid than your way? You seem to project a lot of stuff onto guilds that the majority of the time does not exist
Mostly because no one has any authority. An officers job really is to kick out players that are jeeps or sabotaging the group in some way.

The one and only guild I was ever in told me how long I had to play, when and where I was limited too. This was all after the kept killing me until I joined, they actually ahd a bounty out on me and many other's to "persude promising recruits to join" I foud out after I joined. Needless to say I wasn't able to play the long playtime's they assigned me and was kicked out and I was killed repeatedly until I quit the game. So you can understand why your one good guild does not give me good reason to allow other's. A more advanced COMMS system will give you pro-guild people your organizing and management cappabillities but you refuse to hear of it. Why?
.
For the record I was typing this before the post above was up, I'd like to see the same as what Agony_Aunt asked for too.

 

[Jenner]

Settle down people. Discuss the topic without getting flamey/personal.

 

[Cmdr Corran Antilles]

Even in this very even handed, consideration of the issue. Where our messages mostly jive, you couldn't resist wandering into suggestions of banks, buildings, and territory. If we can convince the pro-guild side to accept a Comm's only approach, I believe, you would see far less backlash on the issue.

I was d3scribing the range options...as in these are things other places have done with guilds. But them you purposely chose to ignore the part where I said one can pick and choose options that fit the game. As in one does not have to include them all. But that seems to be the theme with you solo guys. You cannot eve. Discuss the options with out you guys whining about it. That whole play your way as long as it is our way attitude.

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So you chose a bad guild and now you think that is the only way they can be. Have you ever thought that maybe characterizing all guilds based on one experience is probably not a good way to go? Would is be ok to characterize all black people based on one experience? Why is this any different?

And if you don't like guilds don't join one. We have not suggested they be mandatory.

 

[Stealth Gamer92]

So you chose a bad guild and now you think that is the only way they can be. Have you ever thought that maybe characterizing all guilds based on one experience is probably not a good way to go? Would is be ok to characterize all black people based on one experience? Why is this any different?

And if you don't like guilds don't join one. We have not suggested they be mandatory.

I didn't choose a dam thing, did you even read the whole post before throwiing out an ignorant assumption. I'm not judging all guild's, I just don't want to risk ruining a youg game because some are impatient and feel their way is the only way. Which is exactly the only argument you keep throwing at Asp ironically.

 

[Fire70]

I'm not judging all guild's, I just don't want to risk ruining a young game because some are impatient and feel their way is the only way.

Why would Guilds ruin this game?? I can see why they will never work like they do in EVE (P2P) given you can get on 32 players into one instance but I can't really see what difference it would make other than having a in game way to co ordinate..

 

[Cmdr Corran Antilles]

Pro-guild guys. Let's see if we can get some consensus from you as to what exactly you want and why.

1) What exactly do you want?
in order
see who is in my group and see if they are on line
a guild private chat channel
an officers channel.

I think if implemented right a guild station could be fun. You can set them up so that guilds are encouraged to make them open to other players. Maybe guild members get a cut of the profits the station makes etc.

I want to be able to be a member of multiple groups and do all.of the above with all of them in one session. No reas on the interface can't sup port that. That way I can be in a aisling angels group as well as 8th dragons etc.

I would like to see pvp actions have consequences. Like the higher your bounty the less likely you can doc and the farther that wanted status goes. If you get wanted by a major faction with a high enough you have a bounty in all of that factions system. Apply same for powers. The wild west was tamed by giving bad guys no where to hide.



2) Why do you want it?

So I can play with my group more. Easier to wing up to trade or do combat zones or bounty hunt. Sometimes I want to run with a pack. Sometimes I want to lone wolf. Both options shold be available to players and should be just as valid. Play your way should be possible. Currently playing solo is the only easy option.

Please, be as clear and concise as possible.

Everyone else, can you lie low for a little while until these important questions are answered?

 

[Mohrgan]

I was d3scribing the range options...as in these are things other places have done with guilds. But them you purposely chose to ignore the part where I said one can pick and choose options that fit the game. As in one does not have to include them all. But that seems to be the theme with you solo guys. You cannot eve. Discuss the options with out you guys whining about it. That whole play your way as long as it is our way attitude.

I was making a point about the range of suggestions too. Don't paint me with that 'solo guy' brush, I use all of the modes. I don't whine, I discuss. I even mentioned how our views on this subject mostly jive. Remember, in this thread we are considering a guild mechanic, not the modes. I haven't Eve'd in some time. I was not impressed with how the ships were controlled. I never got to the 'Meet the Corps' level of play.

I was discussing the issues 1) Comm's Only solution, 2) pro-guild vision as a whole. I have debated this issue for some time, and my views have evolved. I believe there can be an agreement, a consensus even based around an in game communications system that serves larger groups, Guilds, or the band of few friends who wing up. I'm not the one throwing my hands in the air and accusing you of histrionics. Let's let FD come to a conclusion. I think we can trust them to follow their vision.