Pirates and Traders

[Technoraze]

@dillontheman

You are now making me think hard about trading the Asp in for my old Cobra.
Used to love the cobra and much cheaper parts too.
The speed boost was definitely a good point.
Think I will keep the vulture though for the condas and pythons until I can improve my FA off combat.

 

[Dhan]

Fact is though many folks as anyone should know don't jump on these forums and the majority of ppl I've run into in this game pc and xb at least 95% These ppl have been minding their own, with friends or alone, say hi at times or flash their lights as we pass, oh sorry M8 for bumping into you in the mail slot, you might receive in the messages and you'd kindly respond.

These ppl, many of them are enjoying space, the beauty of it. The thing they expected in this game as we all did, that their would be NPC in the game doing their thing. NPC's are predictable they do no hold grudges or get mad cause you disagreed with them in the forum. They just do their designed thing and even in my T9 i can get away. Change this to a player who is not as friendly 5% of the folks I've run into. Now mind you, many of that 95% may consist of a nice pirate who may interdict my T9, say alright bro go ahead and drop 30t i do so and leave. But the 5% don't ask they kill, they kill even after you drop cargo. Say i keep fly soon as I'm interdicted and as I'm flying drop 50t and try to leave. Thats pretty kind considering its mine, he didn't ask for it and well its 50t free cargo but no, this 5% just chase me down and kill me.

WE ALL HAVE A RIGHT TO ENJOY THIS GAME but that enjoyment should not be causing negative impacts on other players. Meaning just cause someone enjoys killing defenseless traders for their enjoyment, means that they are negatively impacting the gaming experience of those traders. which is wrong

There should be a server developed by Frontier that is PVE and another that is PVP. Many ppl just enjoy playing with others but don't want to deal with players that decide to go crazy and start hunting you down, or randomly killing for no reason, or pirates that kill before asking questions. We can't go and play Elite Soft Core... there is nothing else like this. This goes for us bounty hunters that kill a player with that accidental 400r bounty due to a fed ship crossing your fire line.

So are you saying that we all have a right to enjoy this game... except those who choose to murder because they are immature, evil pyschopaths who should be evicted from the game? Are you always this entertaining when you post?

 

[Kelvinmorcillo]

There is solo mode, you guys know that right?

Been there since crashing became a REAL problem on heavy traffic stations.

Only 13 mi to get my python safe to go out, then we'll see.

 

[Alimorae]

There should be a server developed by Frontier that is PVE and another that is PVP. Many ppl just enjoy playing with others but don't want to deal with players that decide to go crazy and start hunting you down, or randomly killing for no reason, or pirates that kill before asking questions. We can't go and play Elite Soft Core... there is nothing else like this. This goes for us bounty hunters that kill a player with that accidental 400r bounty due to a fed ship crossing your fire line.

I'm sorry to say mavrac, but the only way you would see this happen without a huge outcry from the community is if they were to duplicate the game into separate PVE and PVP simulations. This is one of the huge issues that is still ongoing between solo/private play and open play. But you'll get your wish for private groups soon(ish).

 

[mavrac]

You're right MOBIUS is a great option, I am apart of this group and its a lot of fun. MOBIUS should have been a stock option though for all versions. Most gamers especially console wouldn't ever know this exists.

Yes we all have a right to play. We all have a right to play as we choose. But NOT at the expense of others. Without basic laws or rules there is chaos. As you said right now the penalty for murder is laughable. But it was far worse on pc before. As I've said 95% of the ppl i meet are great, even the pirates they play their role and in turn enriches the experience. But that 5% is causing friction. And will force ppl to just leave all together, this game is complicated and has a large learning curve. Then when you finally get a handle on it and that cobra you're like yes ok lets meet up with my friends in open and on your way to meet them bam a player kills you. Not going to foster a fun experience for many. We want our community to grow not shrink due to just a few percentage of folks.

Dude said harvest moon. Lets be intelligent and actually come up with resolutions not just blurting out random things.

Solo is not an option. You can't just tell all Passive players they HAVE to play alone. If every passive player played alone then pirating would not exist. Theres better solutions but seems no one wants to even entertain them which is disappointing


An outcry. Lol you do know the number of gamers that actually take the time to post in the forums is statistically less than 25%. An outcry of 25% is laughable. Why would making PVE and PVP separate be a bad thing, oh thats because the PVP folks like picking on those that are passive. Let the passive players play in a passive server wouldn't you rather play with someone that provides a challenge? if not thats just being a bully

- - - Updated - - -

This exactly. I'm not a big fan of on-line games, never have been, for all the obvious negative reasons and I'm too old to change now. I'd much rather play off-line, but Solo is the next best thing. I'm not here for anyone's gratification but my own. Although after saying that, joining Mobius and interacting with other players, on a co-operative basis for mutual benefit, has been an eye opener for me.

As to the OP. As a trader, If I cant fight back I always run from pirates and never drop cargo because..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz-8CSa9xj8

lol nice

 

[Dillontheman]

@dillontheman

You are now making me think hard about trading the Asp in for my old Cobra.
Used to love the cobra and much cheaper parts too.
The speed boost was definitely a good point.
Think I will keep the vulture though for the condas and pythons until I can improve my FA off combat.

FA off combat is the way to go. Of course you have get used to the sort of wonky xbox controls... but it's well worth it.

My favorite strategy is baiting a joust and just pulling a 180 turn while throttling up as they fly past me. Puts me right behind the target at a even pace with them.

Cobra is an excellent ship for this. One of the best benefits is being underestimated.

Don't mean to get off topic haha

 

[Dillontheman]

You're asking for a solution to an issue that already has a solution... drop your god forsaken cargo lol. It's part of the game.

The 5% of griefers will exist in any mode in any game. Your solutions are to prepare for it with outfitting or course plotting, or playing solo.

Both options include not being a baby

 

[mavrac]

You're asking for a solution to an issue that already has a solution... drop your god forsaken cargo lol. It's part of the game.

The 5% of griefers will exist in any mode in any game. Your solutions are to prepare for it with outfitting or course plotting, or playing solo.

Both options include not being a baby

Its cool, I get reading may be a challenge for some.

SOLO is not an option. Continued use of such aggressions (murder) have and will continue to push ppl to solo, especially if you and others say hey passive player that's your only option.

The result which it seems many of you can't do the logic, is that what will be left in open is pvp players and all passive players will be in solo. This will lower pirating to a stand still. So why not instead give these passive players a place they can enjoy the game the way they want, WITH OTHER PPL THAT ARE PASSIVE PLAYERS, TOGETHER NOT ALONE, without effecting open as it currently is. Whether they do this or not this games population will shrink ruining its experience not cause the game is bad but due to players.

Being a baby? I'm coming up with adult, logical resolutions to a problem, which you and others don't see as a problem due to being the cause of it. In my T9 I don't run son. I drop some cargo and continue on my way.

Fact, you do not have to kill ever when pirating. Disable drives. Hack take cargo let them figure out the rest. But from the responses that's just to much work. Who is being childish? But the child who hits when he doesn't get his way.

 

[Alimorae]

An outcry. Lol you do know the number of gamers that actually take the time to post in the forums is statistically less than 25%. An outcry of 25% is laughable. Why would making PVE and PVP separate be a bad thing, oh thats because the PVP folks like picking on those that are passive. Let the passive players play in a passive server wouldn't you rather play with someone that provides a challenge? if not thats just being a bully

Interesting, where is your data to support your claim? I assume there must be data somewhere that you analyzed to generate such a number. I'm all for making a separate PVE server as long as it doesn't affect the background simulation. With the way these things are run now the only way to counteract an event is through PVP, I'll provide an example.

I am an Empire aligned player and I notice that the Federation is building a new capital ship via a community event (I use this example since it has already happened a couple times). Now being Empire aligned I don't want the Feds getting a shiny new capital ship. Their community event is to deliver metals to a specific station where the ship is being built. In an ideal world one of two things would happen that would allow me to affect this outcome. First option: create an opposing community event, ie smuggle explosives to station Y. First community event to reach their target mark wins and that's what happens. Second option: Everybody has to play in open. Now I and any other Empire aligned players that choose to participate have the potential to slow/halt this community event by interdicting traders and making them dump their cargo. This gives everybody a chance to have an effect on the outcome of this event. With the way it is now all it takes is a bunch of traders flipping over to solo/private play and they have the ability to determine the outcome of this event completely unopposed. This type of thing occurs with Power Play as well.

Of course this is just one of the many arguments regarding solo/private play and open play that you can find in the Dangerous Discussion forum. There are a number of various threads talking about this including one huge archived thread that is in is second or third iteration since these threads have a post limit.

 

[Dhan]

Its cool, I get reading may be a challenge for some.

SOLO is not an option. Continued use of such aggressions (murder) have and will continue to push ppl to solo, especially if you and others say hey passive player that's your only option.

The result which it seems many of you can't do the logic, is that what will be left in open is pvp players and all passive players will be in solo. This will lower pirating to a stand still. So why not instead give these passive players a place they can enjoy the game the way they want, WITH OTHER PPL THAT ARE PASSIVE PLAYERS, TOGETHER NOT ALONE, without effecting open as it currently is. Whether they do this or not this games population will shrink ruining its experience not cause the game is bad but due to players.

Being a baby? I'm coming up with adult, logical resolutions to a problem, which you and others don't see as a problem due to being the cause of it. In my T9 I don't run son. I drop some cargo and continue on my way.

Fact, you do not have to kill ever when pirating. Disable drives. Hack take cargo let them figure out the rest. But from the responses that's just to much work. Who is being childish? But the child who hits when he doesn't get his way.

Reading may be a challenge from some? Petty insults coming from the authority on immature acts in elite? Color me disappointed.

Those that get "pushed" to solo are "pushed" because they can't handle the player encounters that open provides. It's not the responsibility of the players to baby those who can't stand the hardship. Besides, If I can't pirate them then no one can *throws tantrum*.

 

[mavrac]

Interesting, where is your data to support your claim? I assume there must be data somewhere that you analyzed to generate such a number. I'm all for making a separate PVE server as long as it doesn't affect the background simulation. With the way these things are run now the only way to counteract an event is through PVP, I'll provide an example.

I am an Empire aligned player and I notice that the Federation is building a new capital ship via a community event (I use this example since it has already happened a couple times). Now being Empire aligned I don't want the Feds getting a shiny new capital ship. Their community event is to deliver metals to a specific station where the ship is being built. In an ideal world one of two things would happen that would allow me to affect this outcome. First option: create an opposing community event, ie smuggle explosives to station Y. First community event to reach their target mark wins and that's what happens. Second option: Everybody has to play in open. Now I and any other Empire aligned players that choose to participate have the potential to slow/halt this community event by interdicting traders and making them dump their cargo. This gives everybody a chance to have an effect on the outcome of this event. With the way it is now all it takes is a bunch of traders flipping over to solo/private play and they have the ability to determine the outcome of this event completely unopposed. This type of thing occurs with Power Play as well.

Of course this is just one of the many arguments regarding solo/private play and open play that you can find in the Dangerous Discussion forum. There are a number of various threads talking about this including one huge archived thread that is in is second or third iteration since these threads have a post limit.

Though that is in fact a challenge to prove. It has been proven in the past with games like WOW that have 12 million plus active members though their active forum members are just over 2 million. Looking here at elite Combined sales have been slow to release but pc had reached 100,000 just a few months ago last i could find anything, though i would assume that number is actually larger. steam has hit 10,000 ish and mac is still unknown. xbox sales haven't release yet either. But i would assume its no less than 1000 and more along the lines of steam at around 10,000 due to its cheap price.

Now here in the xbox forum members have taken part of posts 994 this could be a mix of xbox players and pc like me.

whole community numbers on this site 49863 out o some where around 120000, so yes we are talking a bit more than 25% when you combine all systems but again we don't have factual numbered sales yet to go off of, so this is a best guess.

I like your examples and yes they do make since. Frontier should be getting more creative about how they do power play and your example about explosives would be great.
But just as some players don't want the ability to kill at will taken away being respectful there are just as many if not more that would rather just deal with NPC and team up with players without worry of dual motives. forcing a community to play alone because they are not interested in PVP is wrong. Some players here are older, and some just aren't great at combat, some have bad eye sight, or just want to play with their friends and trade and explore. Alternatively those events you spoke of may require open play if you want to take part which then would give players that choice.

For a game all about CHOICE, it sure isn't giving every one a choice

I appreciate your adult and thought out response more like yours would be nice

 

[Distance]

You'll get group mode on xbox when it goes gold and then you can play in mobius.

BTW it's not the players driving people to solo it's the lack of system security mechanics that do it.

 

[GRIPZILLA oDDo]

Ill never give up my cargo to you lowly pirate scum

 

[Technoraze]

I'm an older player and played this in 1984.
Been waiting for a version that can do justice to the concept and I'm loving it.

I used to play gta v (cuss me if you want) but I have Been in the software business in the past and appreciate what a programing feat that was/is.
Since they introduced passive mode in gta v the numbers have dwindled month on month.
Not everybody wants to be passive and moralistic especially in the computer game industry as its supposed to be fun, so a happy median would be most welcome.
For me gta v went so boring after passive was brought in as I did enjoy blowing up stuff people etc along with a whole crew of us.
We used to have some great battles with plenty of others who also loved to fight back, but now all peeps do if they feel they might lose something that is replaceable is jump straight into passive.
I do hope ED doesn't get to this stage.
I want this to be a realistic open world where everyone can choose to do whatever vocation they like. There are plenty of methods to succeed in your trade you just have to learn how to use them.

- - - Updated - - -

Ill never give up my cargo to you lowly pirate scum

Now that my friend is a great answer.
I too would do the same even though I do plan to at some point be a pirate.

 

[mavrac]

Ill never give up my cargo to you lowly pirate scum

lol you might if you're in a T9 friend just saying fight the good fight or run but good luck to you either way

 

[Hungry Shoggoth]

Alright, I understand that because I'm a pirate myself I probably don't have the most popular view on this but hear me out.

First off can we stop referring to player that interdict other players simply to kill them as 'pirates'? They're not pirates, they're murderous scumbags. Any pirate worth his salt will not kill anyone they interdict regardless of whether they cooperate or not (killing you pesky bounty-hunters is another story however )

I myself have only ever killed 1 player and that was basically because as soon as we exited supercruise they opened fire and refused to relent, however even in that case I still attempted to disable their ship and failed in doing so, in hindsight I should've probably just jumped out and I do take 100% responsibility for that players death, I am after all the person that instigated the aggression by interdicting them, they were simply reacting. I don't feel particularly bad about destroying a player that decided to pick a fight he couldn't win, however I do acknowledge that the entire engagement was started by me.

As for a solution, I honestly don't know the best way to deal with players intentionally logging-off (whether they be traders, Pirates or hunters) without catching innocent players in the crossfire. As it stands now if you punish player that log off while under attack by say having their ship remain in-game for a period of timeout after logging off then a lot of players will have deaths resulting from simple game crashes. Any sort of blanket solution like this will inevitably end up punishing innocent players, whereas doing nothing encourages the dishonest behaviour.

I propose this: first, lower the fines for smugglers, as of right they're laughably high when compared to much more serious offenses. Second, make additional insurance purchasable for both ships and cargo, (for examplepurchace pay an additional 2.5% for your ship at the time of purchase you get 97.5% coverage including upgrades, this will minimize losses for all involved. Third, increase bounties given for violent crimes, 200cr for an assault and a mere 6kcr for a murder is ridiculous. Make both scale along with the value of the ship being atacked, don't make assault too high for risk of making piracy even less lucrative than it already is but penalties for murder should be upwards of 2.5% of the ships value IMO. Not only would that discourage PKing but it would clearly mark murderous players as prime targets for the bounty hunters.

 

[mavrac]

I'm an older player and played this in 1984.
Been waiting for a version that can do justice to the concept and I'm loving it.

I used to play gta v (cuss me if you want) but I have Been in the software business in the past and appreciate what a programing feat that was/is.
Since they introduced passive mode in gta v the numbers have dwindled month on month.
Not everybody wants to be passive and moralistic especially in the computer game industry as its supposed to be fun, so a happy median would be most welcome.
For me gta v went so boring after passive was brought in as I did enjoy blowing up stuff people etc along with a whole crew of us.
We used to have some great battles with plenty of others who also loved to fight back, but now all peeps do if they feel they might lose something that is replaceable is jump straight into passive.
I do hope ED doesn't get to this stage.
I want this to be a realistic open world where everyone can choose to do whatever vocation they like. There are plenty of methods to succeed in your trade you just have to learn how to use them.

- - - Updated - - -



Now that my friend is a great answer.
I too would do the same even though I do plan to at some point be a pirate.

Great opinion friend, your view is completely appreciated. I do get what you're saying. Though what is GTA V online if its not about killing each other, its COD with cars and stuff with an open world really. so for anyone to expect a game that literally is based around killing and not much else to be passive than well i think that might be a bit misguided.

That being said this is a space sim first. David Braben has said in his interviews many times since we all waited for release to beta that yes you can do what you want and be a criminal. That there would be ways to keep this in check though, and that his HOPES are that ppl would work together even though well you don't have to.

The difference of what you describe and what i propose is pretty big. What GTA did which broke the game was added to the core of the game one place to play allowing folks to go passive. That is not what I'm proposing. Don't break what works in current open. Just allow an option for PVE, so open pvp and open pve. Yes pc has MOBIUS but most don't know it exists. Though they have the largest following of any private group to my knowledge and quickly rivaling that of open. Which proves that PVE is wanted and isn't going anywhere and Frontier has taken notice I'm sure. As it stands, all we have is open forcing passive players to play with aggressive players. Who wins in this, who gets exactly what they want? Thats great some wish to be and do what ever they want but not all of us do. Forcing ppl to play in that kind of environment is why threads like this get made and why there is all this tension. There are no alternate games like this that passive players can go play together, ( to be clear a space game like this one on xbox ). And there are so many things for us passive players to do in this game outside of combat unlike GTA.

Solo again not an option for ppl that want to play together without the chaos.

 

[mavrac]

Alright, I understand that because I'm a pirate myself I probably don't have the most popular view on this but hear me out.

First off can we stop referring to player that interdict other players simply to kill them as 'pirates'? They're not pirates, they're murderous scumbags. Any pirate worth his salt will not kill anyone they interdict regardless of whether they cooperate or not (killing you pesky bounty-hunters is another story however )

I myself have only ever killed 1 player and that was basically because as soon as we exited supercruise they opened fire and refused to relent, however even in that case I still attempted to disable their ship and failed in doing so, in hindsight I should've probably just jumped out and I do take 100% responsibility for that players death, I am after all the person that instigated the aggression by interdicting them, they were simply reacting. I don't feel particularly bad about destroying a player that decided to pick a fight he couldn't win, however I do acknowledge that the entire engagement was started by me.

As for a solution, I honestly don't know the best way to deal with players intentionally logging-off (whether they be traders, Pirates or hunters) without catching innocent players in the crossfire. As it stands now if you punish player that log off while under attack by say having their ship remain in-game for a period of timeout after logging off then a lot of players will have deaths resulting from simple game crashes. Any sort of blanket solution like this will inevitably end up punishing innocent players, whereas doing nothing encourages the dishonest behaviour.

I propose this: first, lower the fines for smugglers, as of right they're laughably high when compared to much more serious offenses. Second, make additional insurance purchasable for both ships and cargo, (for examplepurchace pay an additional 2.5% for your ship at the time of purchase you get 97.5% coverage including upgrades, this will minimize losses for all involved. Third, increase bounties given for violent crimes, 200cr for an assault and a mere 6kcr for a murder is ridiculous. Make both scale along with the value of the ship being atacked, don't make assault too high for risk of making piracy even less lucrative than it already is but penalties for murder should be upwards of 2.5% of the ships value IMO. Not only would that discourage PKing but it would clearly mark murderous players as prime targets for the bounty hunters.

Careful some on here claim to be pirates and feel its ok to kill if the trader doesn't submit.

Great ideas this is the kind of examples that could make this a better game for all. Alternatively i feel that if the PKer kills an unwanted player, he should have to pay full insurance cost of dead player and insurance cost for goods destroyed. That would slow PKing though if i wanted to go on a killing spree i could do this for a long time without running out of money and soon many other players could too. So there has to be a better way.. right?

 

[Reina Kaede]

I used to try to evade interdictions when doing cargo runs or what have you, but lately I just gave up on that and I throttle down and submit to it. Pirate comes up to me, I Kill Warrant scan them while they're scanning me, anddd...

They end up dead or fleeing.

Then when I turn in my goods, I also get a nice little bonus from the scrub I just killed.

 

[Hungry Shoggoth]

What're you flying? Sounds like you've been being interdicted by some rubbish pirates, good luck trying to pull that against a full wing of A-spec Cobras and vipers.