Why is everybody complaining how much of a "grind" Elite is if every other MMORPG is exactly the same?

noldunar

N
Why is everybody complaining how much of a "grind" Elite is if every other MMORPG is exactly the same?

Hi,

a lot of people here are complaining about Elite being a "grindfest" and that it is a "mile wide and inch deep". So I am wondering: I have played a few MMORPGs before Elite but I would never consider myself an expert or veteran, however, in the games I have played (SW: KTOR, Neverwinter Online, WoW) the "grind" and the missions (quests) were exactly the same:

I need ten wolf pelts. Go get them for me.

I seek revenge. Kill 10 orcs for me.

The orcs have taken a few of us captive. Please free 10 soldiers.

Search this graveyard for 10 special tombstones.

etc.

As I first encountered the kill missions in Elite I thought: Great fun. The same as the fantasy stuff but with a sci-fi theme, which I like.

Also, a lot of people are complaining about no persistency. Nothing they do matters. They can kill 200 pirates and security does not improve etc.

Same as in every other multi-player game as well. Best example is Neverwinter Online (which I do enjoy, being also a D&D rpg player). There is one area in Neverwinter which is under the control of an orc tribe. They have taken guards captive and you have to free them (see quest list above). After you kill the guards and free the prisoner you head for the next and the next and the next. And after a few minutes the first prisoner together with his guards respawns, for the next player to be rescued. This is the same with every encounter group you kill. Nothing persists, everything respawns. So why is it OK in one game but not another?

KOTOR does have a class related narrative but the elements of the narrative consist of a lot of the same go there, kill that, bring me that quests. I wouldn't call that immersive gameplay as well.

So I am asking: What exactly is the difference between ED and these games? I see none.

I really like ED, I am one of the old Elite players. I am not missing much and still enjoy the game. So I am just asking out of curiousity.
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
In a violent protest, 1 ship regardless of size = 200 credits and 1 merit.
In a combat zone, ship bonds are scaled to size.

CZ pay well, while PZs do not. This is grind for me, identical effort, minimal pay out.
 

Obsidian Ant

Obsidian Ant
A lot of the reason many people are complaining is because the original design documents and videos didn't really talk about this type of game play. Instead they talked about emergent game play. Early on Elite wasn't really refereed to as an MMO, that has only came about in the last year or so.

For some people, they feel that represented a change in direction to the game they thought they were backing.


Additionally, games like World of Warcraft go a fair way to mask and hide the fact you are grinding. Where as Elite doesn't really hide the fact - in Powerplay for example the main purpose of the game play is to fill up coloured bars. It makes things feel a lot more "grindy" than in other games.
 
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Shaamaan

Shaamaan
Perhaps because no one really WANTS this to be an MMO?

Most people were hoping this was designed as a single-player game with MP elements, not an MMO. Heck, most people (myself included) still hope this game can be something OTHER than an MMO.

Most single-player games which have and / or require the mindset of MMOs don't really garner much love from gamers. At the very least these games should have some sort of story (like KOTOR that you mentioned). ED has MMO elements, no story, and was supposed to be a remake of a single-player game. Thus, grind elements are both obvious and annoyingly boring.
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
True. However some people didn't buy a mmo, they bought a single player offline game... You can't do much about the offline part, but the single/coop experience could be greatly improved by some RPG elements.
 

Obsidian Ant

Obsidian Ant
Eirichur said:
I think the obvious solution is that we need space wolves, and wolf pelts as tradable commodities. :p
Click to expand...

Having these as tradable commodities certainly would be very interesting:

latest
 

warlock

warlock
noldunar said:
Hi,

a lot of people here are complaining about Elite being a "grindfest" and that it is a "mile wide and inch deep". So I am wondering: I have played a few MMORPGs before Elite but I would never consider myself an expert or veteran, however, in the games I have played (SW: KTOR, Neverwinter Online, WoW) the "grind" and the missions (quests) were exactly the same:

I need ten wolf pelts. Go get them for me.

I seek revenge. Kill 10 orcs for me.

The orcs have taken a few of us captive. Please free 10 soldiers.

Search this graveyard for 10 special tombstones.

etc.

As I first encountered the kill missions in Elite I thought: Great fun. The same as the fantasy stuff but with a sci-fi theme, which I like.

Also, a lot of people are complaining about no persistency. Nothing they do matters. They can kill 200 pirates and security does not improve etc.

Same as in every other multi-player game as well. Best example is Neverwinter Online (which I do enjoy, being also a D&D rpg player). There is one area in Neverwinter which is under the control of an orc tribe. They have taken guards captive and you have to free them (see quest list above). After you kill the guards and free the prisoner you head for the next and the next and the next. And after a few minutes the first prisoner together with his guards respawns, for the next player to be rescued. This is the same with every encounter group you kill. Nothing persists, everything respawns. So why is it OK in one game but not another?

KOTOR does have a class related narrative but the elements of the narrative consist of a lot of the same go there, kill that, bring me that quests. I wouldn't call that immersive gameplay as well.

So I am asking: What exactly is the difference between ED and these games? I see none.

I really like ED, I am one of the old Elite players. I am not missing much and still enjoy the game. So I am just asking out of curiousity.
Click to expand...

I am an old Elite player too and guess what? I absolutely love this game and it is going to get even better. Have some rep
 
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Lateralus

Lateralus
For me, without the mmo aspect of the game it would get boring very fast. I respect the fact that a lot of people like solo play, I hope they enjoy it - it's not for me though.

To say that most people want this to be exclusively a single player game though I think is wrong. Perhaps a lot of those players who liked the older games in the series would prefer it to remain a single player only game, but it would severely limit the player-base and ED would find it very difficult going up against Star Citizen sales-wise.

In my opinion giving the players the option of Solo/Open is the correct approach.
 

Jukelo

Jukelo
TBH it's not really about the grind: almost all games have some element of grind to them, it's an easy way of keeping the player busy and building up expectation which hopefuly (if your game is well designed) leads to a feeling of achievement when you reach your temporary goal. When playing Minecraft, you have no issue grinding a bit for resources, because you can already think of all the great things you'll be making with that diamond. It will allow you to build new stuff that adds depth to the gameplay, you'll build complex contraptions and impress your friends...
But I think for many people the issue with is, what would be the motivation in ED? Grinding credits to get the next ship... and then what? Your new ship will bring you no new gameplay, all you can do with a bigger ship, you could do with a smaller one, except a bit better.
It's not like X3 where at first you don't mind the trade grind because you're doing it so you'll be able to afford to automate your trade ship and then the gameplay will move on to something different, with you no longer flying your ships but instead figuring out where to send your traders and how best to protect them. Then eventually even that takes a backseat as you start to build stations and the whole thing goes from a micro to a macro level and you have to be careful not to completely tip over the local economy.
There is no such evolution of gameplay in ED, it's really always doing the same thing over and over. What you do in your first 10 hours playing ED, is exactly the same thing you'll be doing in 100 hours. Except you'll have a different cockpit. If ED made you look forward to great things to come, things wouldn't feel like a grind: it would just be progressing through the game.
 
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Llyander

Llyander
Because this game wasn't meant to be an MMO.

That said, you don't HAVE to grind. I've been in an Asp for about the last 6 months, still perfectly happy pootling around in it.
 
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Vaerkone

Vaerkone
Star Wars: Galaxies was (and still is) hands down the best MMORPG there ever was, until the Combat Upgrade change and class changes.

Regarding the grind in Elite: I just feel that a bigger ship lets me do the same things I do today only a bit faster.
 

noldunar

N
%OnePercent% said:
Because we didn't want this to be an MMO, we wanted an elite with multiplayer attached.
Click to expand...


But in my opinion, having played all previous Elites (Elite, Frontier: Elite 2 and FFE as well as Oolite and Elite - The New Kind) on C64, Amiga and PC, that is exactly what you got.

There are a few features missing from FE2 which I would like to see and which have been mentioned (like reconaissance missions, don't need planetary landings for that, an asteroid research post etc. would do nicely or a more "living" bulletin board with missing person adds and black markets hidden as bulletin board adds) but overall I think we got a pretty decent modern version of Elite.

So maybe the reason I am not complaining is that I never expected Elite to have a story that you could play through. But I can understand that more modern gamers are expecting more from a 21st century AAA release title.
 
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