Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

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Originally posted by gumbie

"I have tried to point out in the past that solo players are the real griefers that enjoy ruining other people's games because they have some sort of axe to grind."


<guffaws> You should be on the stage!

Oliver Hardy, to Stan Laurel: "Now look what you made me do!"

[takes your hand, starts slapping you with it] stop hitting yourself!!!

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I want solo players to keep to themselves and stop interfering with the background simulation in open.

They don't want to play with me and that's fine but i don't see why I should be forced to play with them.

You aren't being forced to play with them. There are many variables affecting the background simulation. Think of solo/group players as just another random element :)

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I only ever play in my lovely Tinky Winky outfit. It's the only available attire I have to fully capture the magical feeling of being an axe-grinding Solo-Pro-Bro heartlessly griefing pew-pews by playing a game mode that they can potentially find me in. My Magic Bag gobbles up all their Pure PVP HTTP packets and fills to the brim with their tears.

It's bliss.

no rep left but you deserve some. BROHOOF! *clack*
 
The issue with changing a product to reach for new customers is that one risks alienating the current consumers that are happy with the current product, while at the same time might fail at attracting the new customers they want. It can work in some cases — when the current product is terrible like Final Fantasy XIV was at launch, when most of its consumers agree that the change is a good one — but it's usually a big risk that can kill a product as easily as it can save it.

And I don't think ED is in such a dire situation that making some radical change, such as nerfing mode switching or separating the modes, is helpful. Neither do I think that this kind of change is consensus among the player base.

Now, I'm not saying that every change is bad. There are some changes to improve the game for pirates that seem to be consensus among the player base, some of which you have been suggesting yourself; making NPC traders a more worthy target for pirates, for example. But changes to the modes that nullifies long-standing promises is, IMHO, going too far.


And here is somewhere we can't look eye to eye. Nothing to lose and nothing to gain is exactly what I want from PvP :D

Not joking. I like playing PvP just for the fun of it, preferably with others that are playing for fun also. Rewards tend to attract players that are there not because they find PvP fun, but rather because they want the reward. Since playing with this kind of player tends to not be as enjoyable for me, I prefer to PvP when the game doesn't offer rewards at all, and thus reward-seeking players aren't there; it might mean less players interested in PvP, but for me it makes the fights I do get into far more enjoyable and pleasant.

It's why I'm not completely sure I will keep playing CQC for long. The devs seem intent on turning it into some kind of long term contest, on offering some rewards that can be taken back outside CQC. That might make me quickly lose interest in the CQC.

But then, of course, I never got ED for the PvP. Rather, I got ED because, among other things, I was assured that I would never have to deal with PvP in it.


In my view, the issue isn't the reward, and neither the risk by itself; rather, it's the amount that is lost when the player loses the engagement, the punishment for failure.

PvP, on average, can't happen more often than the time to recover from a PvP encounter dictates. That is not an opinion; it's a logical impossibility. If you make the loser of a PvP match need a few hours to recover, then a PvP match can't happen more often than once in a few hours, otherwise the players engaging in PvP will just bleed resources until they are forced to stop playing.

The "sheep and wolves" arrangement does change this a bit, by shifting how much PvP each player takes part in; the "sheep," who tend to lose the fights, rarely see PvP and have time to recover; the "wolves" see far more PvP, but need proportionally less time to recover because they win most fights and often have less to lose in the first place anyway. But this requires a large number of "sheep" for every "wolf," and ever since MMOs started to proliferate, those "sheep" need to be willing; there's too much choice nowadays for players to ever be forced into that role, they would just change games instead. As a result, I'm not aware of a game where this "sheep and wolves" arrangement worked well ever since UO first implemented the PvE world of Trammel over a decade ago, and I believe expecting it to work in ED is foolhardy at best.

It's why my suggestions to improve the situation focus more on reducing the loss; lower buyback, cargo insurance, part of the exploration data and bounds (and other kinds of credit that vanish on the ship's destruction) preserved through death, etc. Allow the defeated players to get back into the PvP action faster, so every willing player can find more fights.

It might increase the number of players that fight to the death when they see a pirate, as they would be losing less than currently, but it's my belief that most of those that actually find the whole piracy RP engagement pleasant would play along.

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If you are talking about games like EVE, DarkFall, Mortal Online, etc, then the whole point of those games is the PvP, including facing players that might be playing the psychotic stereotype. They are advertised as such, and players supposedly know that when they purchase or start playing those games. And even then they have to deal with a large player churn issue, as they tend to retain a lower amount of new players compared with more laid back games.

ED was never described as such, never had the mechanics that would allow this kind of gameplay to prevail, and its very underlying network architecture precludes that, so you can't expect ED to imitate those games, even if you disregard the issues those games typically deal with or how such a change could drive away many of the current players.

If you are talking about the majority of MMOs out there, they tend to allow players to ignore each other without penalty. ED's mode switching is just a different take on the PvP flags or login-time server choice that have been used in MMOs for over a decade.

A superb & elegant post. +rep
 
The (NPC) pirates aren't there for the player. They are there for the NPC miners. The player is only one ship among many to them.

and thanks for this reminder that in terms of the huge galaxy and even huger universe, we are all insignificant mayflies *chortles likle Cody*
 
and thanks for this reminder that in terms of the huge galaxy and even huger universe, we are all insignificant mayflies *chortles likle Cody*


that is always why I keep wondering why people complain about other people in "their" universe.
 
I dont have that many friends that play games. But i did have 4 friends that owned this game and quit in frustration because they cant take the game seriously. Fighting invisible groups and players was too silly for them to continue. Not sure what we could've accomplished just the 5 of us? Nonetheless, i am alone. What i want to know is, how is this splitting of the player base a good idea? Since they are inhabbiting the same universe but are invisible to eachother? It makes no sense!? Fighting for popular territory seems completely pointless having players spread between 3 different modes? Solo, open and group, heck there might even be 20 groups all playing just with their group. And they are all fighting for the same territory? How would that ever work? Im just so utterly confused at this game design desicion. It baffles me beyond belief!
 
I dont have that many friends that play games. But i did have 4 friends that owned this game and quit in frustration because they cant take the game seriously. Fighting invisible groups and players was too silly for them to continue. Not sure what we could've accomplished just the 5 of us? Nonetheless, i am alone. What i want to know is, how is this splitting of the player base a good idea? Since they are inhabbiting the same universe but are invisible to eachother? It makes no sense!? Fighting for popular territory seems completely pointless having players spread between 3 different modes? Solo, open and group, heck there might even be 20 groups all playing just with their group. And they are all fighting for the same territory? How would that ever work? Im just so utterly confused at this game design desicion. It baffles me beyond belief!

well given the choice I too personally would have gone with 1 mode.... Solo with the option of inviting friends into the game at will - kind of like payday 2 or left for dead.

Just think of the time saved and money, trying to get the networking all sorted that could have been spent on other stuff.

It would then have opened the doors to the modding community much like skyrim, or closer to home oolite

something tells me that is not the mode you would want keeping however ;)

But we have what we have, and we bought the game knowing this and so need to accept it.
 
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I dont have that many friends that play games. But i did have 4 friends that owned this game and quit in frustration because they cant take the game seriously. Fighting invisible groups and players was too silly for them to continue. Not sure what we could've accomplished just the 5 of us? Nonetheless, i am alone. What i want to know is, how is this splitting of the player base a good idea? Since they are inhabbiting the same universe but are invisible to eachother? It makes no sense!? Fighting for popular territory seems completely pointless having players spread between 3 different modes? Solo, open and group, heck there might even be 20 groups all playing just with their group. And they are all fighting for the same territory? How would that ever work? Im just so utterly confused at this game design desicion. It baffles me beyond belief!

Well, you are not supposed to directly "fight" for some popular territory. ED is not this type of game. On the other side, you can (mostly indirectly) "fight" over some systems in PowerPlay.
 
I dont have that many friends that play games. But i did have 4 friends that owned this game and quit in frustration because they cant take the game seriously. Fighting invisible groups and players was too silly for them to continue. Not sure what we could've accomplished just the 5 of us? Nonetheless, i am alone. What i want to know is, how is this splitting of the player base a good idea? Since they are inhabbiting the same universe but are invisible to eachother? It makes no sense!? Fighting for popular territory seems completely pointless having players spread between 3 different modes? Solo, open and group, heck there might even be 20 groups all playing just with their group. And they are all fighting for the same territory? How would that ever work? Im just so utterly confused at this game design desicion. It baffles me beyond belief!

It's really simple, let me explain something my 6 year old understands;

When you don't worry about what everyone else is up to and just get on with it - it is a really good fun game.

It really is this simple and yet people struggle to understand this.
I mean honestly I do not understand how some folks get out of bed on a morning if all they do is freak out over what the rest of the world is up to.

At least I know how therapists are making money now, I think I might retrain to be one - talk about easy money.
Listen to people freak out over others getting on in life without them - send bill, profit.
 
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Having open and solo linked cripples both modes.

The mess is unsalvageable.

The game is devoid of content and open players cannot create any because of mode-switching and bizarre networking.
Solo players cannot create content because the game is online, linked and not moddable.

I really understand why people were so angry when offline solo was ditched.

I now realise I have been playing this game because of what it could have been and not because of what it is or what it will be and I give up.
 
Which makes more sense. Multiple pirates getting a read that something is in the RES and going in finding others got the same reading, or a pirate gets the reading of many ships and goes in

Yeah I agree...if all the pirates are lone wolves. I think it would be interesting if like a wing of 10 pirates came in to attack the group or some other kind of encounter. Actually just last night I was playing with someone and we attacked a wing of 6 pirates, and it was actually somewhat of a challenge.
 
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Having open and solo linked cripples both modes.

The mess is unsalvageable.

The game is devoid of content and open players cannot create any because of mode-switching and bizarre networking.
Solo players cannot create content because the game is online, linked and not moddable.

I really understand why people were so angry when offline solo was ditched.

I now realise I have been playing this game because of what it could have been and not because of what it is or what it will be and I give up.

I love these doom posts, they make me giggle.

There actually is no mess, just a perception by a small base that was expecting ED to be more like EVE.

There is content but the game is not like WoW or other games with raids and such and heavy endgame content.

Offline mode would have been nice but solo works plus with teh BGS it is better..

Giving up is your choice, before I put money into the game I researched it and knew exactly what it was. I'm not exactly sure how you are playing a game because of what you thought it could be, because it was never that to begine with.

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Yeah I agree...if all the pirates are lone wolves. I think it would be interesting if like a wing of 10 pirates came in to attack the group or some other kind of encounter. Actually just last night I was playing with someone and we attacked a wing of 6 pirates, and it was actually somewhat of a challenge.

Maybe one day there will be The Goddess of the AI may smile upon you, but having read some comments I'm not so certain you want her to.

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I dont have that many friends that play games. But i did have 4 friends that owned this game and quit in frustration because they cant take the game seriously. Fighting invisible groups and players was too silly for them to continue. Not sure what we could've accomplished just the 5 of us? Nonetheless, i am alone. What i want to know is, how is this splitting of the player base a good idea? Since they are inhabbiting the same universe but are invisible to eachother? It makes no sense!? Fighting for popular territory seems completely pointless having players spread between 3 different modes? Solo, open and group, heck there might even be 20 groups all playing just with their group. And they are all fighting for the same territory? How would that ever work? Im just so utterly confused at this game design desicion. It baffles me beyond belief!


What confuses me is at no point were you ever fighting invisible groups or enemies.
 
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What confuses me is at no point were you ever fighting invisible groups or enemies.

I didn't tell you this, but if you have a Star Trek Online account, you can use a Klingon cloaking device in Elite: Dangerous.
I'm using the one from my Fleet T5U B'rel, I can torp Sideys from cloak and get a 30% damage boost to go with it.

You didn't hear that from me, we must keep our invisible ships a secret ;)
 
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I did tell you this, but if you have a Star Trek Online account, you can use a Klingon cloaking device in Elite: Dangerous.
I'm using the one from my Fleet T5U B'rel, I can torp Sideys from cloak and get a 30% damage boost to go with it.

You didn't hear that from me, we must keep our invisible ships a secret ;)

Lol you are funny Jockey, only 30%? you must be timing the firing wrong, I get between 60% and 70% damage boost with torps.

PS

I thought it was meant to be a secret :p
 
I did tell you this, but if you have a Star Trek Online account, you can use a Klingon cloaking device in Elite: Dangerous.
I'm using the one from my Fleet T5U B'rel, I can torp Sideys from cloak and get a 30% damage boost to go with it.

You didn't hear that from me, we must keep our invisible ships a secret ;)


OOoohhhh. I miss my BOP ^,^ I can bring it here !!
 
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