Main faction decay

[Lobstris]

Once i reach elite in trading and go and do combat should i expect that to decay as well?

OK. Playing Devil's Advocate... Why not? Is the mercenary in his late 50's still as capable as the young gunslinger in his 20's? Should his reputation not have faded somewhat? I'll accept that standing in the Pilot's federation could be more an 'honorary' thing that doesn't decay.
.
For some reason computer games have shied away from applying maluses to players, as being too 'realistic' detrimental to 'fun'. I did like that some levelling mods for Bethesda RPGs forced players to continually use a skill, lest it degrade with time. Or that paper RPGs (and Mount and Blade IIRC) applied rules for skill degeneration with age.

- - - Updated - - -

How is it good?

In the real world, explorers left home with the authorities often sceptical about their trips. On return they were lauded as heroes. In ED it's the other way around.

No. As I already said, it's the same in E: D. You go off exploring, the powers that be are sceptical, and become more sceptical as your absence lengthens (and you don't send any postcards). You return, you get the cash and reputation. Simples! Exactly the same surely?

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Please enlighten me on the way a mechanicism that discourages players from playing the game after taking a break from playing is a good thing?

Discourages? If they only want to move "forward". If they don't want to see what chances it open to do thing differently - that's THEIR ISSUE.

I didn't back ED to have same old tiresome way of playing games. I backed ED to break mold because I want it to challenge me. Give me reasonable faction decay. Give me reasonably breaking down modules. I don't want another "well, I got Anaconda and I am immortal, because everyone is my ally now" game.

 

[andyraptor]

I have seen this. Was friendly with the Empire after 14 days away. Traded 2000 tons of commodities, and moved back to Allied.

Yup..... and amazingly not a single whine poster has actually told us how long it took them to get back up... I wonder why ?

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Yup..... and amazingly not a single whine poster has actually told us how long it took them to get back up... I wonder why ?

Because they whine on principle - they claim they have little time to play and they want to feel achievement for their "hard grind".

Yes, it doesn't make sense for them to play ED, but here you go.

 

[Commandr Sam]

OK. Playing Devil's Advocate... Why not? Is the mercenary in his late 50's still as capable as the young gunslinger in his 20's? Should his reputation not have faded somewhat? I'll accept that standing in the Pilot's federation could be more an 'honorary' thing that doesn't decay.
.
For some reason computer games have shied away from applying maluses to players, as being too 'realistic' detrimental to 'fun'. I did like that some levelling mods for Bethesda RPGs forced players to continually use a skill, lest it degrade with time. Or that paper RPGs (and Mount and Blade IIRC) applied rules for skill degeneration with age.

- - - Updated - - -



No. As I already said, it's the same in E: D. You go off exploring, the powers that be are sceptical, and become more sceptical as your absence lengthens (and you don't send any postcards). You return, you get the cash and reputation. Simples! Exactly the same surely?

Exactly there is exactly as much reason for one to decay as the other, only those blindly supporting this crazy mechanism would disagree.

I want this game to do well and having a game rule that means that if i stop for a week I have to do a few hours of missions just to get back to where i started is not a good way to get me to play again.

Most MMOs give an insentive for players to return hence large player bases.

Many players only get a few hours a week to play and will spend their entire life in game just treading water.

 

[Lobstris]

Please enlighten me on the way a mechanicism that discourages players from playing the game after taking a break from playing is a good thing?

Please enlighten me as to why you think a dynamic, evolving universe should be static and allow you to pick up exactly where you left off? (NB, using that sentence structure sounds slightly more combative than I actually want to be... ). The point is in the majority of cases it seems fairly easy to regain the lost reputation. I understand that, in your case, something seems to have gone horribly wrong, and your suggestion that there should be more consequence to actions, with increasing standing in one faction being detrimental to the other two factions, is an approach the Devs should have taken (but in addition to faction reputation decay).
.
Also I haven't seen anyone complaining "Oh noes, I was hostile to the Federation, now I'm only unfriendly. Fix it F: Dev!'

 

[tanthil]

I dont mind decay but i was very suprised that decay is so fast.. 5-12 days begin off line is very fast to be honest and dont find any legit reason why is like that.
Major faction rep is not PP merit decay so why it follow similar week PP merit decay?

 

[Commandr Sam]

Please enlighten me as to why you think a dynamic, evolving universe should be static and allow you to pick up exactly where you left off? (NB, using that sentence structure sounds slightly more combative than I actually want to be... ). The point is in the majority of cases it seems fairly easy to regain the lost reputation. I understand that, in your case, something seems to have gone horribly wrong, and your suggestion that there should be more consequence to actions, with increasing standing in one faction being detrimental to the other two factions, is an approach the Devs should have taken (but in addition to faction reputation decay).
.
Also I haven't seen anyone complaining "Oh noes, I was hostile to the Federation, now I'm only unfriendly. Fix it F: Dev!'

I am very much for a realistic evolving galaxy don't get me started on the BGS.

So to give a relaitic comparison, if one of your best friends goes on holiday for 2 weeks do you down grade them?

Also the time it takes is not the issue, neutral to allied is only 5-6 hours of play.

I play enough for this not to be a problem for me, it is for the players that do not play a lot or stop playing for a period of time, this could really push them to find another game rather than having to do the same thing again to get back to where they were.

PS Lobtris I know you on these forums well I would not take offense ;p

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Most MMOs give an insentive for players to return hence large player bases.

Most MMOs are empty shells after players have ran trough content without any kind of challenge. People stick with MMOs only because of friends, to get some instances and raids together.

Also *why* you need to get where you started? Things have changed. Maybe it's time to move on from that sytem?

 

[Lobstris]

Exactly there is exactly as much reason for one to decay as the other

Not necessarily. As previously stated, if the Pilot's federation ranks are 'honorary ranks', then it's not detrimental to treat them separately (IMHO).

only those blindly supporting this crazy mechanism would disagree.

I don't think I'm blind. I do support reputation decay. I support it on the grounds that it adds more plausible level of realism to faction interactions. That far outweighs the disincentive I feel when a little red arrow appears. YMMV of course. We can of course argue what is the appropriate amount of time for the decay to take place over, but two weeks to drop a level I can recover in under an hour's play does not seem to onerous or unreasonable.

 

[Commandr Sam]

Also *why* you need to get where you started? Things have changed. Maybe it's time to move on from that sytem?

It is simple psychology, people don't like having things taken awy from them. In a game people play for fun this really sets the wrong mood and will encourage more casual players as you said to move on.

 

[Lobstris]

I am very much for a realistic evolving galaxy don't get me started on the BGS.

So to give a relaitic comparison, if one of your best friends goes on holiday for 2 weeks do you down grade them?

Games work on a compressed timeframe though don't they, because of the fact that they aren't 24/7 reality? If it was a business acquaintance, who I'd vaguely done some work with, but not spoken to in a few years, and I'd a feeling he'd moved on to a different field, I may be more circumspect.
.
And yeah, lets not get started on the BGS, or else it will all end in sitting in a corner of the bar, after a lot of alcohol, trying to put the world(s) to rights, whilst dreaming of what coulda been.

 

[Commandr Sam]

Games work on a compressed timeframe though don't they, because of the fact that they aren't 24/7 reality? If it was a business acquaintance, who I'd vaguely done some work with, but not spoken to in a few years, and I'd a feeling he'd moved on to a different field, I may be more circumspect.
.
And yeah, lets not get started on the BGS, or else it will all end in sitting in a corner of the bar, after a lot of alcohol, trying to put the world(s) to rights, whilst dreaming of what coulda been.

I see elite having a 4-5 year life span, i waited 21 years for it so want to make the most of it, so feel the time scales do not need to be that compressed.

That is my main reason for not wanting any mechanism (which frankly doesn't really achieve anything) that could drive players away.

Also i just read my previous posts back and appologise if any of those comments also came across as combatative, they weren't meant to be.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

It is simple psychology, people don't like having things taken awy from them. In a game people play for fun this really sets the wrong mood and will encourage more casual players as you said to move on.

First, I don't believe in absolutes. Some will move on. Some will find a way to accept it. It really depends if they really like game overall. It's not basic psyhology either. It's just how very loud minority of gamers represent it. Because they want what they want. Doesn't mean it's good for game.

 

[Commandr Sam]

First, I don't believe in absolutes. Some will move on. Some will find a way to accept it. It really depends if they really like game overall. It's not basic psyhology either. It's just how very loud minority of gamers represent it. Because they want what they want. Doesn't mean it's good for game.

Well it really does, if you want this game to still be here in 10 years it needs to encourage people to play, not the opposite.

Some will stay some will move on is not a good philosophy, no one would leave if decay was removed and a sensible method of balancing reps between factions was introcduced, where as the current mechanism will cause people not to come back after taking a break.

I am not arguing this point because it affects me in game, it doesn't. I am arguing as it is a mechanism that will demotivate people from playing and that is a bad thing.

 

[Bareknuckle McGee]

I'd have no problem if my reputation suffered with a faction because I'd been working for someone else or because they'd asked me for help but I'd refused. However, the idea of my reputation decaying because I'm offline is anathema to me. It's puntitive because it degrades what you've worked for based on how often you log in and for how long and it's far less interesting than a system that asks you to make a choice to futher your rep with one faction at the expense of another. I embrace the idea of a dynamic galaxy but the galaxy's attitude to the player should always be shaped by the player's choices and not by hours played. This kind of design decision makes me far less inclined to play the game unfortunately.

 

[Chann3l]

I've been unfriendly with the Federation since Beta. The only negative rep action I've committed (to the best of my knowledge) was that I was caught carrying illegal goods into one of their stations back in November 2014. Despite all the missions, trading, bounties etc. that I've done on their behalf, the unfriendliness never goes away. For some reason I keep getting rank promotion missions from them, though.

Lucky you, I'm allied and do all sorts of activities for them and have yet to get my first rank progression mission lol

 

[Commandr Sam]

I'd have no problem if my reputation suffered with a faction because I'd been working for someone else or because they'd asked me for help but I'd refused. However, the idea of my reputation decaying because I'm offline is anathema to me. It's puntitive because it degrades what you've worked for based on how often you log in and for how long and it's far less interesting than a system that asks you to make a choice to futher your rep with one faction at the expense of another. I embrace the idea of a dynamic galaxy but the galaxy's attitude to the player should always be shaped by the player's choices and not by hours played. This kind of design decision makes me far less inclined to play the game unfortunately.

Well said, I wish I could express my views as concisely and eloquantly as you have here.

PS enjoy the rep.

 

[Lobstris]

I'd have no problem if my reputation suffered with a faction because I'd been working for someone else or because they'd asked me for help but I'd refused. However, the idea of my reputation decaying because I'm offline is anathema to me. It's puntitive because it degrades what you've worked for based on how often you log in and for how long and it's far less interesting than a system that asks you to make a choice to futher your rep with one faction at the expense of another. I embrace the idea of a dynamic galaxy but the galaxy's attitude to the player should always be shaped by the player's choices and not by hours played. This kind of design decision makes me far less inclined to play the game unfortunately.

I can see your point of view - even if I don't necessarily agree that it is that punitive, or should generate a strong enough feeling to be an 'anathema'. However... I agree wholeheartedly with the idea of trading faction relationships against each other, and that the weighting of the system should be far more in favour of player's actions being the driving factor, rather than hours played.

 

[babelfisch]

Could we please stop with the myth that players are leaving because of design decisions? Players are not leaving. Take look at steamcharts, the playerbase is healthier than ever before. It's the same with open, I just spend some hours in Nanomam and have met hundreds of players.