Smuggling should be harder

I am a committed smuggler. It is my main profession in the game. IMO 1.3 was a big improvement to smuggling, with missions and PP mechanics it has become a much more viable profession. People argue that it should be more viable still without those mechanics and in principle I do not disagree. However, I believe there is one very good reason why the black market bonus on prohibited goods should not be raised further in its current state and that is that smuggling is far too easy.

When I began smuggling I went full on frosted, silent running, FA off in a properly kitted smuggling craft. Prepping about 10k out from the station, turning off modules, lining up, it felt tense, it was fun. Then I realised it was all a waste of time. I realised that I didn't have to lower my shields, I just needed to fly fast and direct into the mailbox. I then realised I didn't even need a special craft, I could do it in a Type 7 or a Clipper. Then I realised I didn't even need to fly that well. It all came to a head for me the other, day, perhaps I shouldn't have dipped into the onion head in the hold, but I forgot to request docking, flew my clipper in to the sounds of trespass alerts, hastily reversed, boosted away, requested docking and flew straight back in, casual like, but not too casual and the Feds, well it must have been donut time because they did not even initiate a scan.

Now at this point let me say that I want smuggling to be harder not so much from a career earning balance point of view but simply because I want to recapture the excitement from when I actually thought there was a degree of risk involved. To that end I have some suggestions:

Outpost patrols
Clearly outposts should not have the same security presence as a station. However, there should be a chance that when you arrive at an outpost there may be a random patrol. You would then at least need to be alert on arrival and sometimes make the decision on whether to try and sneak in or go elsewhere.

Enhanced AI ability to detect large and exotic ships
When you drop into a station in certain crafts, lets for arguments sake say anything larger than the Asp, the security forces get an automatic alert and dependent upon other ships in the area and in line with a priority list they automatically head your way to scan.

Scan on docking request
The station itself should have a scanning function. Once you request docking it will attempt to lock on and initiate a scan. How quickly it locks on would depend on heat sig and ship size meaning that small ships coming in cold and fast would not have a problem but a large ship with it's shields on gets scanned immediately. I appreciate you could request docking at the last minute to negate this but even that would be something.

Wider patrols

The patrols currently hug the station. They could be a little further out or you could have the occasional perimeter patrol

High security
I'm sure the number of security ships relates in some ways to the security level of a system. However, it would be nice for this to be accentuated to the point where a high security system has an absolute ton of security making it a very risky proposition (ideally with a suitable black market incentive). High security systems should also spawn more interdiction and scans.

The above are just some suggestions, I'm sure there will be issues with them. I also appreciate that this would have consequences for wanted non-smugglers but I think that's fine. Basically I want to smuggle and I want to have to think about how I do, I want it to raise my pulse, I want it to be meaningful. There is only so far my imagination can carry me pretending that I'm Han Solo and my cat is Chewie. Come on FD give smuggling some tough love.
 
When I began smuggling I went full on frosted, silent running, FA off in a properly kitted smuggling craft. Prepping about 10k out from the station, turning off modules, lining up, it felt tense, it was fun. Then I realised it was all a waste of time. I realised that I didn't have to lower my shields, I just needed to fly fast and direct into the mailbox. I then realised I didn't even need a special craft, I could do it in a Type 7 or a Clipper. Then I realised I didn't even need to fly that well. It all came to a head for me the other, day, perhaps I shouldn't have dipped into the onion head in the hold, but I forgot to request docking, flew my clipper in to the sounds of trespass alerts, hastily reversed, boosted away, requested docking and flew straight back in, casual like, but not too casual and the Feds, well it must have been donut time because they did not even initiate a scan.

Now at this point let me say that I want smuggling to be harder not so much from a career earning balance point of view but simply because I want to recapture the excitement from when I actually thought there was a degree of risk involved. To that end I have some suggestions:

Outpost patrols
Clearly outposts should not have the same security presence as a station. However, there should be a chance that when you arrive at an outpost there may be a random patrol. You would then at least need to be alert on arrival and sometimes make the decision on whether to try and sneak in or go elsewhere.

Man, you just described my exact feelings/experiences. I totally agree. Finally registered just for this post :D
 
Ive been away for a while (few months sulking a major loss in deep black) I was scanned at an outpost yesterday. I can't ever remember getting scanned at an outpost before. Also I was scanned leaving a Station not going out but on launch. Is this new stuff?
I think you're right smuggling should be great risk but great reward. :)
 
Sure make it harder.. but also put black markets in all large stations. It makes no sense that Large stations don't have them. Any large population has people willing to deal in underhand dealings.
 
Ive been away for a while (few months sulking a major loss in deep black) I was scanned at an outpost yesterday. I can't ever remember getting scanned at an outpost before. Also I was scanned leaving a Station not going out but on launch. Is this new stuff?
I think you're right smuggling should be great risk but great reward. :)

Dont know if it is new, i started with 1.3

there is always chance to be scanned - going in or out of stations if you are within ~3km or so of patrol security ships.

there is usually no security at ouposts but military ones always do have security, and sometimes normal outposts will on rare occasions have some internal security ship that popped in from SC

to avoid outpost scans after landing when security is present, always head into hangar, otherwise you will get repeat scans and repeat fines.

i disagree with OP suggestions penalizing big ships - there already is a smuggling penalty for big ships - visual siting and thermal efficiency. Bigger ships are easier to spot (although this seems lowest weighted factor) and has higher thermal emissions usually - especially bulk trade ships used in smuggling like the heat pig type 9

i do agree smuggling could be made harder, if reward was also imcreased - but i would prefer difficulty raised be equalized across ships, not just make small ships = better. The best mechanism would be something that raised the bar and was countered purely by pilot skill, not ship type.
 
I don't believe these things should be made harder. Not every player spends 9 hours a day on the game and find things to be so easy they can multitask while doing these things. I do believe that the profits should be higher on smuggling however, otherwise what's the point?

I think it's important to remember that some missions require smuggling to complete that mission. That doesn't mean only smugglers can do them. If it becomes difficult, the smuggling missions will be just for experienced smugglers. How else are you going to introduce an aspect of the game to a new player?
 
Actually, a smuggler can simply ignore the scans and fines... There are a huge amount of systems, if one gets a fine, one can simply ignore it and move on... By the time you return to that same system, the fine / bounty will have expired.
 
Wow, nerf smuggling. We nerfed ships, weapons, bounty hunting, naval rank progress, missiles, CGs. What we can break next ?

Maybe we should stop play the game at all. It will be the ultimate nerf.
 
I don't believe these things should be made harder. Not every player spends 9 hours a day on the game and find things to be so easy they can multitask while doing these things. I do believe that the profits should be higher on smuggling however, otherwise what's the point?

I think it's important to remember that some missions require smuggling to complete that mission. That doesn't mean only smugglers can do them. If it becomes difficult, the smuggling missions will be just for experienced smugglers. How else are you going to introduce an aspect of the game to a new player?

Agree in sentiment. I do think there can be mechanism though to allow for new vs vet smugglers.

right now, smuggling = smuggling. There is zero differene in difficulty or reward other than the mission type you can get due to trade rank.

a new player taking on a 10-30k smuggling mission has same difficulty and reward as a smuggler that is a vet. Yes, a vet would normally have hugher trade rank and likely be taking the 100k+ missions, but rank only gives extra missions - you can still take the smaller ones and sometimes the BB doesnt spawn the bigger ones.

my point is there is no im-game smuggling rank or reward for higher diffculty smuggling - as all missions, ragerdless of credit reward, is exact same smuggling scenario and risk.

so what if smuggling had a pilot rank? And higher ranked smuggling missions not only offered greater rewards, but introduced higher risk and demand higher player skill? What if due to the high security lockdown and hence the lucrative smuggling contract you are now offerd to bring X contraband, all patrols in that station area had double the scanning distance? And any ship entering mail slot at greater than 100 m/s max landing speed would be shot on sight - so no automatic boost win.

the complication is how this could be done in multiplayer environment because obviously it would be unfair to raise station security for everybody just because one smuggler took a higher risk contract. So just thinking out loud re example of how reward could be tied to taking greater risk, but actual mechanism would need work to make it non-impactful on other non-smugglers
 
I still go through all the cermonies in my Cobra. I don't want to have lost the touch whenever the AI decides to start doing actual police work.

I agree with all you say though. It needs to be more nuanced and a smuggler in a large ship should be nearly impossible except for the most practiced silent speed dockers.

I'd love for the option to meet a fence just 15k from the station (information on their exact whereabouts could be purchased...i.e. "from station exit, point to nearest star and travel 15k, a trail of biowaste will lead you to the final location). Obviously, your profits would be less than careening into the station and selling at the black market...but if you've got a T9 full of Slaves, a convenient fence who takes a cut would be worth it.
 
And any ship entering mail slot at greater than 100 m/s max landing speed would be shot on sight - so no automatic boost win.

Absolutely not! That's the best part of smuggling. Maybe a small speeding fine so you have to think whether you are Ok with deducting that from the profits you'll make.
 
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I don't believe these things should be made harder. Not every player spends 9 hours a day on the game and find things to be so easy they can multitask while doing these things. I do believe that the profits should be higher on smuggling however, otherwise what's the point?

At the moment, smuggling is like trading : you just dock and sell your goods. If you don't make it harder, what is the difference with trading ? If you make it more profitable, why would someone even trade ?

As for the missions, you can pick another one if you find it too difficult. There are smuggling missions in outposts where you cannot be scanned anyway, don't know how to make it easier ?

Do you really think you need to play 9 hours a day to be able to engage silent running in front of the station and return to normal once you are inside ? That's one key / joystick command. Difficult, seriously ?!
 
I understand the gradient you are asking for, I just don't agree with how you want it implemented and I understand you are just throwing out suggestions. You could not arbitrarily set a speed limit on ships as not every ship coming through that slot is a traitor or at the same level as you. You will get shot regardless if you're traveling a hundred meters per second since you haven't been scanned yet so they won't know who you are anyhow.

The way these games work though you get really good at one thing and you don't really move to the next level, you find something else to do that you're not good at. Never mind what the most interesting man in the world says about finding that thing you don't do well and not doing that thing, find that thing and do it. I don't believe there needs to be a gradient on difficulty for things like smuggling. It's just as difficult to smuggle a kilo of cocaine as it is to smuggle 10 kilos of cocaine. It doesn't matter how many times you've done it the difficulty is the same every time. You might find a better way to do it but that doesn't mean you won't get caught.

Besides, it's not so much a difficulty issue as it is a risk issue. The fact that you only get a fine and even if you get a bounty you just buy a sidewinder and there goes your bounty. If the bounty stayed with the commander instead of the ship that would be different. How about every ship that goes in and out of a mail slot gets scanned regardless and you have to only smuggle to outposts? How about if you have to meet a T9 or some other ship that has security clearance in order to sell your smuggled goods?
 
Smuggling should actually be more profitable than it is. Selling forbidden goods at a black market should yield a very high profit, much more than selling these goods where they are legit. After all, that's why smugglers smuggle in the first place.

However, for this to be realistic, a smuggler should have the risk of getting those goods confiscated, in case the cops detect those illegal goods. Is the cops detect smuggled goods, they should act to prevent the delivery of those goods. Maybe ordering the smuggler to turn around and get out before a countdown expires, after whicjh they would open fire and the smuggler becomes wanted, or in case of detection and landing, the goods would be confiscated and the smuggler gets a fine.

But for this to work, smuggling should yeild high profit. Big risks, big rewards, or big losses.
 
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