Why over fortify??

[EZSaddler]

Not giving away my allegiance and therefore the systems in question but I was just wondering what the advantages are of over fortifying systems (other than easy merits of course)?

Some systems are at 300%+ which just seems like a waste when there are others barely above 0%, particularly if the undermine figure is triggered and it all counts for nothing.

Am I missing something?

Fly safe commanders!

EZ

 

[Sendraks]

No benefit to over fortifying at the moment. Its simply people being lazy a dumping their aid packages in systems closest to HQ to gain merits quickly or not bothering to check that they system they'd flown to was fortified.

 

[Renegade Roach]

Yup, lazy/stupid people combined with a mechanic which encourages lazy/stupid gameplay. If you want to feel a bit better have a look at Guathiti in Arissa Lavigny-Duval's territory. Last week the morons got it up to around 6k% I think.

 

[Kitiara]

Yup, lazy/stupid people combined with a mechanic which encourages lazy/stupid gameplay. If you want to feel a bit better have a look at Guathiti in Arissa Lavigny-Duval's territory. Last week the morons got it up to around 6k% I think.

We're aiming for 10k % this week

 

[Sendraks]

Yup - it shouldn't be possible to fortify over the trigger or over the undermine attempt.

Although I expect if such a change is implemented, some of the people doing this will just stop PP altogether, having lost a source of easy merit gain and income.

 

[Brucolac]

Yup, lazy/stupid people combined with a mechanic which encourages lazy/stupid gameplay. If you want to feel a bit better have a look at Guathiti in Arissa Lavigny-Duval's territory. Last week the morons got it up to around 6k% I think.

That one system has gone over 8,000% fortified in the past. IIRC it's the closest one to HQ with a large landing pad, which tells you everything you need to know about what people are after in PP.

It would be really simple to fix, too, if they just stopped giving merits for over-fortified systems - but if they did that, I suspect the numbers playing PP might drop off a cliff.

 

[Renegade Roach]

We're aiming for 10k % this week

I have no doubt that our star grinders can achieve that and more. We are indeed blessed with 'special' commanders.

- - - Updated - - -

It would be really simple to fix, too, if they just stopped giving merits for over-fortified systems - but if they did that, I suspect the numbers playing PP might drop off a cliff.

Indeed, then they wouldn't even be able to say internally 'but look how many people are participating!' when management asks how it's going. God forbid that happens, they might actually have to dream up some interesting mechanics and content.

 

[nrage]

Yup - it shouldn't be possible to fortify over the trigger or over the undermine attempt.

The issue there is that there may not be enough merits to go around, legitimately.

Better would be to give more than 1 merit per tonne to systems below the trigger.

 

[huwthomas]

Logically, an overfortified system should have supplies for someone else to pick up, there is a surplus after all.

 

[Kayweg]

Indeed, then they wouldn't even be able to say internally 'but look how many people are participating!' when management asks how it's going. God forbid that happens, they might actually have to dream up some interesting mechanics and content.

I can get behind thatone, Roach.

But taking the lazy/stupid stab at people, for playing in the way that's most beneficial for them, sounds a bit unfair to me.

They need to create mechanics that are plausible in benefiting the powers and the players at the same time, without these blatant contradictions.

 

[Sendraks]

The issue there is that there may not be enough merits to go around, legitimately.

Better would be to give more than 1 merit per tonne to systems below the trigger.

Stop making me want to give you rep when I can't!

 

[SpitTheDog]

That one system has gone over 8,000% fortified in the past. IIRC it's the closest one to HQ with a large landing pad, which tells you everything you need to know about what people are after in PP.

It would be really simple to fix, too, if they just stopped giving merits for over-fortified systems - but if they did that, I suspect the numbers playing PP might drop off a cliff.

The benefit of PP is........?

Answers on a postcard please.

Apparently the benefit is not meant to be money, or special weapons both of which become available if you are a lazy grinder.

Therefore it is an important question as to what the benefit is. I for one am not motivated by seeing a picture moved around a very small grid each week. Therefore I would hope there would be another benefit.

Until that is answered I will continue to be a partially lazy grinder.

 

[Iskariot]

Not giving away my allegiance and therefore the systems in question but I was just wondering what the advantages are of over fortifying systems (other than easy merits of course)?

Some systems are at 300%+ which just seems like a waste when there are others barely above 0%, particularly if the undermine figure is triggered and it all counts for nothing.

Am I missing something?

Fly safe commanders!

EZ

Because most/many players do not really care about their Power.
They just try to earn their merits and the credit/special weapon rewards that come with that.
And considering the punishing and demotivating merit decay system, they try to do it in a way that is most convenient to them.

I am also speaking out of personal experience here.
I really do not care whether a power owns one system more or less. Why would I?
First of all I look after my own interests and they have nothing or little to do with the interests of the Power.
The power can buy my services and if I have to earn merits to get my salary then of course the earning of merits becomes the priority.

When I still participated in PP I soon stopped all activities that would not earn me merits quickly enough to counter the terribly demotivating merit decay mechanic.
I went hunting in enemy systems for 15 merits per kill. I considered that to be the only viable, profitable way and even then it broke my back.

I stopped my participation in PP 3 weeks ago and my rank 4 merits have now decayed to 250 or something like that. It might be even less, as I have not checked this week.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

You answered your own question OP.
It's all about the easy merits, no other value to it because some players will always find the easiest and quickest way to fast track to the best ships...by way of the Rank 5, 50m bonus.
In other games it would probably be considered an exploit.
A solution would be to cap the level a system can be fortified, may it be at the exact amount of a bit higher to allow a certain amount of bad play, but not so much as to ruin the experience for others.
Personally, I'd just cap it at the maximum required.

The sad reality is gaming has a lot of players who will use any exploit to their advantage.

 

[Vertexico]

The merit system is poorly defined. The only 'profitable' ways to grind merits are overfortifying closest system or maybeee doing undermining. The masses are impossible to control and the in-game UI gives bad advice that leads directly to turmoil. Everyone, including FDev, knows that PP is broken, I just hope they fix the merit system instead of just screwing around with Turmoil and Overhead.

 

[EZSaddler]

Yep, after a night slugging it doing more than 20 LONG trips in a VERY short ranged Cobra to fortify I'm quickly losing faith with the current PP system. I was so bored I even did the maths. The fortification overspend would have fortified another 4 more systems potentially saving 99CC of the current deficit which could easily be achieved when only half way through the week.

Kinda feel there needs to be a better mechanic to unify supporters of a power and help coordinate efforts. True there will always be those looking to just cash in.

 

[Brucolac]

The benefit of PP is........?

Answers on a postcard please.

Apparently the benefit is not meant to be money, or special weapons both of which become available if you are a lazy grinder.

Therefore it is an important question as to what the benefit is. I for one am not motivated by seeing a picture moved around a very small grid each week. Therefore I would hope there would be another benefit.

Until that is answered I will continue to be a partially lazy grinder.

I believe PP was put in game for people to engage in politics, not to make money or get ship modules that are mostly irrelevant. Maybe the developers looked at all the players engaged in struggles like Mikkun ( https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=91485&p=1428130&viewfull=1#post1428130 ) and thought PP would go down well. There are numerous other threads and posts explaining where they got it wrong; basically a nice idea but terrible implementation.

I was going to say that there are better ways to make money than PP anyway - it's pretty easy to get more money by trading for example. However, if you are able to stay in-game for hours but unable or unwilling to do anything other than sit in a station pressing a single button every 30 minutes, then PP is the way to make money.

 

[Hey Mickey]

Unfortunately, this thread has the question backwards. You should ask:

"Why fortify a system 150LY away? The closest system will give you way more merits!"

Most players won't give a damn about increasing the fortification on HIP 12345 by maybe 1%. Who cares? They'll probably never even visit that system.

I get my 100 merits for the ALD bounty bonus, then get back to playing the game. If a 'good' system is nearby, I'll deliver/vote there. I also avoid doing things that actually harm my faction, since I know some people care about PP and preparing a -10 CC system is a not a nice thing to do.
Otherwise, since over-fortifying doesn't harm ALD, I'll do it and grab my reward.

 

[Moahunter]

^i agree. Unless the mechanic is changed to provide bonus credits for fortifying systems not over fortified, or prevent merits if over fortified, there is no logical reason for an individual player to fly further out, other than "caring" about their faction. It needs a rework. The only part of powerplay I enjoy right now is undermining, the rest is just grind IMO, I'd rather trade and have the grind benefit me. There should be an incentive to defend against undermining as well, and expansion zones need way more credits per kill. Lots of balancing work needed, powerplay has potential, but needs work.

I'd like powerplay missions as well, e.g. Go and interdict and kill 10 enemy ships in XYZ system, and earn x credits/merits on completion, or go and fortify ABC outpost by xYZ quality. Some serious story could be built in around those missions to make you care, and they would dynamically incentivize players to go to those further distance fortification, expansion or preparation locations. That's more what I expected powerplay to be, getting "orders" from faction leader or their generals and benefits from following. Instead we have people trying to do that outside the game and getting frustrated when it doesn't work.

 

[Renegade Roach]

I can get behind thatone, Roach.

But taking the lazy/stupid stab at people, for playing in the way that's most beneficial for them, sounds a bit unfair to me.

They need to create mechanics that are plausible in benefiting the powers and the players at the same time, without these blatant contradictions.

It was a bit mean, I'll give you that And I do place most of the 'blame' on the mechanics rather than the players. It's not a great sign that so many people's primary engagement with PP is to take the simplest route to grind 10k merits for their credit bonus even to the great, and blindingly obvious, detriment of their pledged power. I also suspect a fair few players simply don't understand that over fortifying is pointless, because a lot of people don't read instruction (beyond the most basic element) or give much thought to what they are actually doing.