Using commodities for their "build" cycle

Before I begin, if this was answered somewhere else I apologize, I'm bad at searching the forum for this specific thing since I can't really grasp what keywords I'd need to look for (just searching for commodities would bring way too much data to scour through).

Now on to the topic at hand.

A question has been floating around my head for some time yet I had nearly forgotten about it until a group mate asked about this in our private forums. The basic idea is why aren't stations building their commodities using other commodities?

To give an external example, think about the X series and how each commodity (the majority) required another commodity for it to exist and specialized stations built different types of commodities.

For those that haven't played the game I mentioned above let me give you an ingame example:

Lets say we have the Personal Weapons, to "build" this commodity you'd need to provide the station with x amount of Minerals and x amount of Metals (for example) and then the station would start "building" the commodity and after x amount of time (RL time) a y amount of Personal Weapons would appear on stock.

Of course certain commodities like Grain, Fish, Metals / Minerals, etc would not require other commodities to exist since they are provided by the planets / asteroids, but why is it that we do not have a cycle like this in the game?

This would give players more role in the game and market fluctuations would be really interesting to see. New routes would always appear and old ones would always die and it would make the game (from a merchants perspective at least) a bit more dynamic.

I understand if this mechanic would bring about market crashes throughout the systems and only a few systems would ever "boom" economically, but I'm still curious as to why the mechanic is not there.

So if anyone can enlighten me I'd appreciate it.

Thank you.
 
I'm sure the mechanic is there, its just buried a bit in the background simulation. Instead of having products state "we need to have x amount of y commodity to make z product", instead you'll start seeing BB missions such as "<station> needs <commodity> desperately, will pay top dollar!", and after you complete a few of those you'll notice that a product that the station produces will suddenly have a boost in supply. They don't make it transparent, they just state that the station needs some particular thing, then have a product in the station increase its supply (I was running Osmium to a station I was working out of for a while a few weeks ago, and then suddenly the station's high tech equipment supplies doubled for a day or so).

As for how the global economy isn't seeing huge crashes and booms due to player influence, that's also part of the background sim. There's not just player traders moving around...there's also thousands upon thousands of NPC trade ships running around, bringing stuff between systems. We may only see a fraction of them at a time, but space is big...and there's enough out there to keep the economy stable.
 
Isnt it?

I am not aware whether this is or isnt in the game.

The problem is that its hard to measure. Only indicator you got is demand and supply, but no idea about production.

The system works with two 10 minute ticks. One production and one consumption tick.
Its really hard to measure and although I tried multiple times, i couldnt find out more than most basic things.

What i actually wanted to test was whether you can improve production of Palladium by importing mineral extractors.

Problems are as follows:
- no clear signals, because NPCs trade as well.
- high consumption values limit timeframe. You need a large station (landing pad for Type9 / Anaconda) and demand levels around 2000 to test, because imho the demand will be at max within 2.5 hours again.

The level of goods to transport to test this are enormous. Plus you need a data point every 10 minutes. So someone needs to sit at the station.

All in all the experimental setup is complicated and the results have been not encouraging for me so far.

If you want to take a look at the data, feel free:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...QOerKub2Um3HIvdfm0yUTk8/edit?usp=docslist_api
 
As for how the global economy isn't seeing huge crashes and booms due to player influence, that's also part of the background sim. There's not just player traders moving around...there's also thousands upon thousands of NPC trade ships running around, bringing stuff between systems. We may only see a fraction of them at a time, but space is big...and there's enough out there to keep the economy stable.

Yes I understand that NPC merchants fullfil this role as well but I sometimes find the lack of data I'm given a bit underwhealming. For example in the border systems there is most of the time a lack of supply but demand values are also quite low (in numerical terms) so I can never get a grip as to what exactly is happening back there behind the hood, if there is a fluctuation in merchandise or if everything is just a set value.


No idea.... perhaps you should go to the X series forum and ask them why ED does not follow them

I do not want Elite to follow X in its footsteps but at the same time I remembered this mechanic and was curious if it could work in Elite or if it already exists. Not really pumped up to have it, but I will not deny that it would be interesting to have it.



Thank you for the link, that's quite insightful.
 
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Sorry Exil, a little flippant.... truth is that some of the mechanics of economy are very poorly executed and really need a working over
 
No worries, I realized you meant no harm so I've redacted my post as well to express myself better. And yes, the mechanics are too vague, I usually enjoy seeing something happen when I constantly deliver the same time of commodity to a station but the feedback is very minimal.
 
I'd really like to have more info.
Showing current production and consumption values... e.g.

If the mechanics exist, why not show them. It would be an additional thing to game.

My favorite station is a High Tech Refinery. It is importing Resonating Separators. I'd love to change the production so that they export it.

But without even vague info there is no point in even trying.


To really explore this issue one needs an extraction system with a large station and basic stuff demand below 3000. That would be low enough to test stuff like that. Wolf 397 Cregglezone, while not big, was already too big for those tests.
 
I'm not certain, but I rather suspect that the station stockpiles are being reset every Thursday. I saw a big drop-off in the value of Gold on Wednesday night, then by Thursday, shortly after the servers came back online, they were back to the original low price.

Edit: In the same station, that is.
 
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