When FD dropped the ball (with the background sim in v1.3)

[Javert]

Experiencing the same problems. At the end of 1.2 managed to gather a small group of cmdrs and got to work on flipping a system. After reading many threads, most of them complaints that BGS wasn't working, we got to work on flipping Gilya.
I was pleasantly surprised when everything worked as it was supposed to and we successfully flipped Gilya with 2 weeks of hard work, we even managed to unlock a rare commodity!
I then went out for a quick exploration trip just as 1.3 hit and was very surprised when all of a sudden systems I was keeping an eye on suddenly started having massive faction influence swings?? this still seems to be happening
I've been planning another flip for a while but not sure if its worth it, anyone currently having success in raising a minor factions influence?
I want to flip wolf 1301 back to a faction that doesn't ban wolf fesh, it mysteriously flipped on the 14th of June I think due to BGS bug but there's no real way of knowing
hope they fix this asap its been 6 weeks now!

One thing I noticed, and this was quite a while back in 1.2 or possibly even 1.1 is that it seemed like even a single player can have a significant influence. I was working missions in a system that as far as I could see, hardly anyone was visiting - I had a permit for the system and according to the Galnet I was pretty much the only player visiting. I noticed that when I did missions it seemed to have a significant impact on the influence of factions, even though there was hardly anyone else even visiting in the system.

 

[Patau82]

One thing I noticed, and this was quite a while back in 1.2 or possibly even 1.1 is that it seemed like even a single player can have a significant influence. I was working missions in a system that as far as I could see, hardly anyone was visiting - I had a permit for the system and according to the Galnet I was pretty much the only player visiting. I noticed that when I did missions it seemed to have a significant impact on the influence of factions, even though there was hardly anyone else even visiting in the system.

yeah it did, the first week I was pretty much by myself and 10-15 completed missions would give my faction +2% and -2% for rival so a swing of about 4%. I went back to same system after 1.3 and with similar system traffic doing and the same thing gave me random influence changes??? Missions have changed since 1.3 some give less influence so it could be that but I was trying to do missions with high influence.

 

[Bokugo]

Then you shouldn't have bought it (yet). Checked out some reviews first, get the first-hand opinion of other people who have been playing it right on these here forums. After all the alpha and betas had been around for a while. You can't reasonably argue that you had no way of knowing what you would be buying.

I remember watching youtubers play and talk about this game before release. They would say "It's a great game but it lacks substance. It is still very much early in it's development but the devs have been communicating with everyone and are working hard to fix the bugs and work on the DDF."
Then after release it all changed. "This used to be a promising game but the devs have gone quiet, bugs and hackers run rampant, and poorly thought out features are tacked on instead of adding real content. The ships are cool though."
Can't really blame people for accepting the game was still young but being worked on, thinking it would get better....and then getting mad when they are served this later on.

 

[Jockey79]

I agree with everything stated here.

For those that are transient through systems , the BGS is superfluous...and would appear to be non-existent. It is not. There is some serious gaming going on between those that are playing the BGS. Most of the perceived 'randomness' is usually someone fighting against you...somewhere in the game.

Automation will be paramount to the BGS 'becoming all it can be'....however, there will still be required dev supervision to maintain the galaxy from 'exponential issues'.

- - - Updated - - -



Jockey, you might not care for Reddit or the things that happen or are stated there, but this company does...and they take it as serious business. I respect your viewpoints on many things we discuss...but you cannot dismiss this fact. Reddit matters. It is part of the community. It is something that FDev is trying to manage.

Yes, but FD respond to Reddit posts, on Reddit.

Which is kind of my point - we don't need the whole "Reddit says....." posts here, if we want to know what happens there we can go and read it for ourselves.
And FD are not going to respond any different here to what they say over there. If they ignore or dismiss a thread on Reddit, it does not gain any more favour if reposted here with the line "From Reddit" attached to it.

Posting threads on one site, then reposting them elsewhere if it does not go your way, does not make the topic any more valid - it just annoys people who didn't want to read the drivel in the first place.
(And I say drivel because every time I've ever followed a link to Reddit (for any reason/ any game), it is just tantrums and whining without any sort of Mods to keep it under control or civil)

 

[TargetLost]

I see your point.
But in this case I forexample was glad the OP posted the reddit text here because I self don't read on reddit and this BGS topic is something that is really of interests for me because I lost hours in it too.

 

[Jockey79]

I see your point.
But in this case I forexample was glad the OP posted the reddit text here because I self don't read on reddit and this BGS topic is something that is really of interests for me because I lost hours in it too.

And there have been countless threads on this forum about the BGS.

It is bad enough every topic gets repeated every week by people who refuse to add to the existing threads on the topics, without also being told about it being repeated over and over again on another site.

The situation with Lugh spawned a silly number of threads regarding the BGS on this very forum.
Power Play discussions all contain information on the BGS and how the powers work, on this forum.
X Box One threads contain links to other threads/ information about the BGS and how the X Box will connect to it, on this forum.
The Solo/Group/Open Mega threads loop back round to the BGS weekly, on this forum.

Seriously, if you cannot find information on the BGS here, you're doing something very very wrong.
Reddit just repeats what was said here, a week after it was said here - then people repeat Reddit here, a week later !

Talk about going in circles.
It's like watching a dog chase its tail sometimes on these boards.

Next we'll be quoting Facebook, Twitter and digging up MySpace posts as relevant information

 

[Cody]

Next we'll be quoting Facebook, Twitter and digging up MySpace posts as relevant information

<sobs> Spare me!

 

[Jacob Marshall]

...
Talk about going in circles.
It's like watching a dog chase its tail sometimes on these boards....

And you love it I've seen you in that thread, dragging your cargo scoop across the carpet, tongue lolling out as you chase down another risk/reward post.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Speaking *as* a dog, Facebook is one of the worst things to ever happen. Now, my daily walk is filled with posts about Facebook posts.

 

[clavain]

Speaking *as* a dog, Facebook is one of the worst things to ever happen. Now, my daily walk is filled with posts about Facebook posts.

I don't have a Facebook account. My dog does though.

 

[SentineI]

You know, I keep seeing references and comments regarding conversations that happen on Reddit.

Here's a clue, if I want to read Reddit drivel, I'll go to Reddit and read it.

There's some real grumpy people on these forums :-(

I was going to write a long argument, but it boils down to this: These forums are for discussing anything related to Elite Dangerous. If you don't like that, and don't like manually skipping annoying threads, then I suggest visiting an alternative venue and/or a sub-forum which is more specific to your requirements. End of rant

(Sorry, but getting annoyed with how people go on as if Reddit is the start and end to all things internet)

I'm afraid that was all in your imagination - a mirror of your own psyche if you like. For me Reddit is just another source of ED info & discussion, albeit slightly better filtered for usefulness than these forums.

P.S. I do not have an account on Reddit. That's how important I think it is!

 

[Jockey79]

There's some real grumpy people on these forums :-(

I was going to write a long argument, but it boils down to this: These forums are for discussing anything related to Elite Dangerous. If you don't like that, and don't like manually skipping annoying threads, then I suggest visiting an alternative venue and/or a sub-forum which is more specific to your requirements. End of rant

Grumpy, no.

Fed up, yes.

Something gets posted here, talked about for a week, then forgotten.
Then it gets brought up on Reddit afterwards (I don't care, I don't use it).

Then some "bright spark" decides it is "important" so we must talk about it on here... completely missing the fact, we all ready did a week or two before (search tool helps prevent this).
Or, they know it was talked about here, and despite knowing where that thread is, they use Reddit as an excuse to make a new thread on the same topic when they should post in the current active thread on that topic.

In fact I'm starting to think a new sub forums is need, labelled "Read it on Reddit" so these threads can be thrown in there out of the way of people who are not interested in Reddit.
Or read the information long before Reddit users could repost it and rehash the information and post it back here.

If your whole stance is based on the information being about ED, then we must also include other sites, like Facebook;
https://www.facebook.com/EliteDangerousOfficial?nr
Did you know there is an Elite Meet: Cologne 2015 - thought I'd bring it up as I bet it's not going to be on the official site or forums is it
News just in, Elite: Dangerous on X Box One... why wasn't that posted to the official forums, I had to read it on Facebook

Or how about Mobius members starting threads with "Well on the Mobius forums we've decided....."
How long until a non Mobius member expresses their lack of enthusiasm for threads started with that sentence

Point being, off site information, is not new information and if people want off site opinions then they will go off site to get them - we don't need them being thrown in our faces.
I come to the official boards to read the news for the game and the opinions of the community here (for better or worse).

 

[nexxo]

No, I shouldn't have checked any reviews first nor get opinions (especially opinions) of other people. ED is on the market as a product and it should meet certain requirements (see more: Sale of Goods Act 1979) about satisfactory quality and fit for purpose.
Softwares are not excempt of these regulations regardless of how some people think differently.
Release is a legal act where ideas don't matter any more because they become commercial products.

Let me correct your 'you shouldn't have bought it yet'-sentence: FD shouldn't have released ED yet. That would have been the only correct way. (A remarkable difference between 'business' and 'rip-off'.)
But as they did and accepted real money, now they are responsible for the quality they accepted the money for. And that's still not there.

"Satisfactory quality" and "fit for purpose" are fairly black-and-white definitions unrelated to your subjective experience of the game. Just like you can't get your money back from the cinema just because you didn't like the film (only if the film broke and was objectively unwatchable), you can't get your money back just because you didn't like the game --only if it was objectively unplayable because e.g. it failed to run on your PC when spec-wise it should have.

 

[wakko151]

I think the problem with making a game of this magnitude is managing the expectations of your customers. I am pesonally hoping for a population and production model to go along with the political and economic model we currently have in place. But all of this takes time. And some days you are going to lose. If you give up, if you don't fight for it... who is going to? Come here. Complain. Make these large posts and start a discussion. But don't quit. If you quit then you its kinda your fault the game sucks. If the game is awesome without you then you have no claim to making it that way. Progress, not perfection. You can't tell us every week you are quiting because a patch upset you. Tell them why. Then wait.

 

[Wellington]

Then you shouldn't have bought it (yet). Checked out some reviews first, get the first-hand opinion of other people who have been playing it right on these here forums. After all the alpha and betas had been around for a while. You can't reasonably argue that you had no way of knowing what you would be buying.

I'm sorry, I cant help thinking you ACTUALLY ARE trying to blame the customers for falling for the snake oil trick and buying an unfinished, badly designed product.............This attitude, more than FD's actions is what I find amazing about all of this..........Besides, If someone were to check out the forums or reviews, they would find its all ok, just a few nay sayers trying to ruin the game for a lot of players, just trying to crash the party etc............

 

[Wellington]

No, he sold an idea. Because at the time an idea was all he had to sell. You really should never assume a product until you see it.

So I paid for an idea? That excuse is getting a bit old now isnt it? Game has been out of beta for a year, its STILL missing many core features and content and people STILL insist everything is ok..............Should rename this game "Titanic: Dangerous"................

 

[nexxo]

Are you saying that you never do any research into the product you buy? Or do you always trust the commercial?
.
And yes, at the time of the Kickstarter all Frontier had was an idea. That was what they were selling: the idea of what the finished product would be like. They were trading in futures, as they say on the stock market. Nothing wrong with that, but futures come with inherent risk.
.
Not all the customers' fault of course; when you trade in futures on a stock market you can reasonably expect the buyers to understand what they are buying and the risks involved. I'm not sure that Frontier considered that they were selling a future, so to speak, and would need to explain to their customers what that means.

 

[kreuzbichler]

What is the BGS simulating actually? I've never seen it taking any effect on the game world overall: the economy sim is as static as it can be and does not reflect any real supply or demand, nor connected to any needs, even if noone plays ED, the galaxy is sitting there happily. Where's the game?
The political sim did not affect me at all while I was playing. Minor or major factions do not matter, I may have a green welcoming message or not, does not matter (it mattered in fuel price when fuel was part of the game with its high price but it was nerfed to a useless state so fuel is "just there" now).
So overall I don't see any BGS working in the background which is important in terms of the game. There's nothing to play with. Affecting minor factions leads to no consequence either so I don't consider it as a gameplay element, it does not affect my gameplay either way: I don't have to make different decisions because this or that minor faction is in charge in any system. They are just different words in different order. Scramble has the same level of gameplay.

The other thing came to my mind is the term "huge potential" ED supposed to have. This is like a mantra, a claim towards the game but if I take the last 8 months into account it's one of the most useless terms I have heard here on the forums.
There's no such thing as potential. It's an imaginatory term reflecting the need we players have to get a great game but it has no relation to either the code nor to the devs. FD made it very clear with their decisions that it's a business they are running and income as a priority is most important to them. That alone renders the "huge potential" pretty invalid: making a good game or maximizing the profit are two different things and if we take a look at where FD's profits are and in what state ED is, I have no doubt that it's pretty useless to bring up this conception of "great potential" again.

Profit. That's what's all about. That's the vision and not this or that sort of game. Accidentally some commanders will be happy with the following decisions whatever they'll be anyway - people are different enough for that by nature so if FD announces an upcoming release to Nintendo and a Super Mario co-pilot for everyone who buys the pack pre-release, there'll be people cheering and trying to prove how great this potential is. It's not that hard to spend 10 years of development with these things and without addressing the very fundamental problmes echoing back from late Alphas. Of course, catering for those already paid is a questionable financial act.

FD knows how to grind. They grind real money from players. In this RW powerplay they pick the power provides the most income and do whatever needs to be done to achieve the most with the necessary minimum effort. They pledged to the power called "KS backers" to get the necessary modules they needed, then defected them and found other powers to pledge to so now we can have QCQ. What's next?

wow, that really sums it up
+1
thought I´m the only who noticed that the so called BGS is mostly fake and anything but dynamic.

 

[nexxo]

Oh, there is no real BGS to speak of. But thinking about it, this would be exactly the sort of project that would require Sarah-Jane Avery's skills... I wonder if that is what she has been moved on to. Perhaps that's the 'colossal' announcement: a major overhaul of the BGS engine.

 

[Distance]

Oh, there is no real BGS to speak of. But thinking about it, this would be exactly the sort of project that would require Sarah-Jane Avery's skills... I wonder if that is what she has been moved on to. Perhaps that's the 'colossal' announcement: a major overhaul of the BGS engine.

The colossal annaouncement wouldn't be "we're going to fix the broken stuff in the game". It's blatently going to be planetary landings with a beta starting in like Nov/Dec.