Repair costs: Just about right?

[Steve72]

Why comes this up every time again ?
One time everyone is whining repair is to expensive. If repairs are fine someone thinks they should be higher.

For what reason they should be higher ? To grind more because it makes more sense that way ?

Its a game after all and games should be fun.

With no consequences for mistakes people will progress into larger ships. Nobody would choose to play smaller ships. I get beaten up a bit oh 125k bill. Better kill 2ships to pay for it. Rinse repeat. There is no need to play smaller ships with poor dps.

The only people who choose smaller ships are newbies or those bored.

Why bored, the only excitement is when you run out of scb and have to leave from your res farming.

Personally like to limit scb to trade ships. Make combat tactical not who has the biggest tank and scb.

 

[AndiBcool]

With no consequences for mistakes people will progress into larger ships. Nobody would choose to play smaller ships. I get beaten up a bit oh 125k bill. Better kill 2ships to pay for it. Rinse repeat. There is no need to play smaller ships with poor dps.

The only people who choose smaller ships are newbies or those bored.

Why bored, the only excitement is when you run out of scb and have to leave from your res farming.

Personally like to limit scb to trade ships. Make combat tactical not who has the biggest tank and scb.

What nonsense, sorry. You make progress in the game to get bigger ships. Personally i own Sidewinder, Adder, Cobra 2x, T6, Imp Courier, Asp, Vulture, Clipper, Python and T9.
Aside from Sidewinder and Adder all ships are in A grade ( aside from some ships where A was not optimal like Vulture or T9).
I dont play much and i think i have the game 4,5 months now.
Recently did purchase me an A grade Clipper just to have it, did fly a bit with it then put back to storage.
I never used a SCB in the game yet. I did outfit the clipper with one to get a clue how they activate ( firegroup ).

Yeah that Python is my main ship now, before that it was the Asp before that Cobra. When i need a taxi to move ships i use sidewinder or Cobra. I buy me ships just to have and fly em sometimes.

That has nothing to do with repair costs. I also went to a CZ took a few big ships out and took a lot damage because sometimes 7 ships at the same time shoot at you. Basicly i made no money from that due repair costs.
For that new CG that is active atm i will get my Asp out and trade some rares for it, maybe i might even buy a Diamond Back X.

Mistakes can cost you the full ship, for my 20% discounted Python its still 6,7 mil. that would mean 2 hours trading with T9.

Why you want to force ppl use smaller ships ? This would only lead to unbalance, because more active ppl could affiord to play the big ships while less active ppl will be forced to use small, because they cant afford repairs.

If you want to pay more, thats up to you. Fly your ship to the wall or get destroyed voila there you have your more expensive repairs.
I worked for the money and bought me a big ship and i use it. Ppl that dont have that money have to fly smaller ships ( so did i ).

Why you bother with using small ships anyway ? For PvP reasons to have a prey ? Well lame excuse to get repair costs higher so u get a prey and ruin the game for a lot ppl.
Really the whole idea to increase reapair costs to get smaller ships more used is totally silly.
Better add some content ( quests, Missions ) for ships like that.

 

[Jynessa Loraeyn]

I'm actually in favour of repair bills being colossally high. In my ideal world, repairs would be something I need to make some kind of meaningful decision about... taking damage would be something I should fear, and they would be so expensive that I wouldn't be able to keep all my modules at 100% with ridiculous ease - I would have to decide if I was willing to live with an occasionally malfunctioning FSD or Life Support.

You would have to run you ship, rather than just fly it - operating at a profit becoming part of being a successful commander. This exists now to some extent, but it's more like scooping water into a bucket to fill it up, rather than trying to minimise losses against maximised gains, which could lead to people taking riskier jobs for the bigger payout, but then have their heart in the mouths at the increased risk.

It would also scale up with ship size and expense. So there would be a gameplay element in deciding how big a ship you want to fly - the larger the ship, the more expensive it is to run, and therefore the harder it is to run at a profit, unless you take bigger risks. This would create a natural scale of risk vs reward. Running a huge freighter that carries 500 tons costs more than running a small ship with easily replaced and commonly available parts. So there is an additional element of skill to master when being a commander of a more demanding and expensive vessel. It also means a starting player naturally is introduced gently, because all they can screw up with is a cheap Sidewinder and its cheap modules. Every player would inevitably have a horrible moment where they realise they can't afford to repair their modules and still have a buyback, and hit a kind of 'ceiling' where they then need to start working on minimising costs.

This is the kind of gameplay where the genuine risk of loss or screwing up sharpens everything and enhances the experience - the sense of achievement in making it as a commander would be that much richer and rewarding.

For clarity, I think repair costs should be very bad, and ordinary running wear-and-tear costs (ship maintenance) should be less bad. But not trivial. Otherwise, you will never be in the situation where you're not sure if you should repair one module over another, due to the cost.

Remember the Millenium Falcon, with her malfunctioning hyperspace drive, and Han Solo constantly being on the run from his debts? Remember Serenity with her malfunctioning compressor and the entire episode worth of story and narrative that created? Currently, that is not something that can realistically happen in this game unless you deliberately go out of your way to create the conditions for it. I love the thought of this, and playing the game while trying to get by on the edge, using most of my money just to keep my ship flying.

But there's several problems with this, and I've pretty much accepted that they're going to stop this ever being in the game.

1. So many players have made clear that they hate the idea of repair costs being this bad, and that if they were they would consider the game 'broken' and 'unplayable'. It created a huge storm before. It seems that that idea isn't one shared by most players, so I'm willing to just let it go.
2. There is a fundamental issue relating to insurance buyback. If the repair costs are high enough, then it will be cheaper under the current system to blow up your ship instead and have it replaced on insurance. This is utterly stupid, and it means repair costs currently cannot be higher than 5% of ships and modules (less for alpha and beta players). The only real solution to this would be to increase insurance buyback as a proportion of ship and module costs. Since this would cause an even bigger outcry than the repair cost one, that isn't a viable option either. So basically, there isn't a solution to this one - repair costs must remain low.
3. It's quite possible that I'm wrong, and these kind of repair costs would not lead to more adrenaline fuelled rewarding gameplay - it might simply not work and be tiresome and frustrating, even to me. I just don't know. So I'm not 100% sold on those high repair costs myself.

But there will always be a little part of me that wishes I could one day be staring at my modules, decide I need my thrusters repaired over my FSD... and then later, be swearing as it malfunctions while I'm trying to get away in combat, and then desperately trying to make it work long enough to escape. All the narratives it could make naturally emerge. I want that sense of Firefly, and Star Wars, and gambling on a job not going south and trying to keep my ship flying.

I don't know how many others really feel that way.

 

[Steve72]

What nonsense, sorry. You make progress in the game to get bigger ships. Personally i own Sidewinder, Adder, Cobra 2x, T6, Imp Courier, Asp, Vulture, Clipper, Python and T9.
Aside from Sidewinder and Adder all ships are in A grade ( aside from some ships where A was not optimal like Vulture or T9).
I dont play much and i think i have the game 4,5 months now.
Recently did purchase me an A grade Clipper just to have it, did fly a bit with it then put back to storage.
I never used a SCB in the game yet. I did outfit the clipper with one to get a clue how they activate ( firegroup ).

Yeah that Python is my main ship now, before that it was the Asp before that Cobra. When i need a taxi to move ships i use sidewinder or Cobra. I buy me ships just to have and fly em sometimes.

That has nothing to do with repair costs. I also went to a CZ took a few big ships out and took a lot damage because sometimes 7 ships at the same time shoot at you. Basicly i made no money from that due repair costs.
For that new CG that is active atm i will get my Asp out and trade some rares for it, maybe i might even buy a Diamond Back X.

Mistakes can cost you the full ship, for my 20% discounted Python its still 6,7 mil. that would mean 2 hours trading with T9.

Why you want to force ppl use smaller ships ? This would only lead to unbalance, because more active ppl could affiord to play the big ships while less active ppl will be forced to use small, because they cant afford repairs.

If you want to pay more, thats up to you. Fly your ship to the wall or get destroyed voila there you have your more expensive repairs.
I worked for the money and bought me a big ship and i use it. Ppl that dont have that money have to fly smaller ships ( so did i ).

Why you bother with using small ships anyway ? For PvP reasons to have a prey ? Well lame excuse to get repair costs higher so u get a prey and ruin the game for a lot ppl.
Really the whole idea to increase reapair costs to get smaller ships more used is totally silly.
Better add some content ( quests, Missions ) for ships like that.

So you have just supported my point. Ship progression is everything and why bother with smaller ships.

Rebuy cost is another thing. Yes if you really balls up and loose your ship it hurts as it should. But take your python to 1 % hull and its a few hundred k bit different from 6.5mill so you still say this is not cheap!

Nothing wrong with using big ships but unless you destroy it repairs may as well be free.

 

[AndiBcool]

So you have just supported my point. Ship progression is everything and why bother with smaller ships.

Rebuy cost is another thing. Yes if you really balls up and loose your ship it hurts as it should. But take your python to 1 % hull and its a few hundred k bit different from 6.5mill so you still say this is not cheap!

Nothing wrong with using big ships but unless you destroy it repairs may as well be free.

I still use smaller ships sometimes, but for multipupose gameplay ( thats what i do ) the Python has the most options for me. Its my explorer, miner,combat, mission and sometimes even trade vessel while i keep all modules. I dont have a Shield cell bank in my Python.
If i want to do one thing only i would use a different ship.
When i feel i want to trade the whole time i hop in my T9, later i might do that in an Anaconda.
If i want to be a pirate i would only use the Clipper.
Some less attractive ships for me are Hauler, Type 7 and Dropship, because they seem useless to me. I cant say much about em because i did not buy em yet and same goes for the Diamond back S & X. The scout seems to found a niche with smuggling and hide and seek, but in gerneral i would prefer a Cobra for nostalgic reasons. The Diamond Back x is a cheaper Asp with less possibilitys but could be ok if u want to go explore. However that can also be done with other ships cheaper or more expensive.

So yeah i will always choose the ship that fits my needs best. However its nice to have so many options.

For repair costs for hull isnt that much i even pay less because of the 20% off everything in my Python. Usually not only the hull is damaged when the hull is only at 1%. Modules will have a lot damage as well. Take a look at the prices of the A Modules, that would add up a lot. However if repair would be to expensive i just could sell the damaged stuff and rebuy it. I would only take a 10% loss on the ship price and wopuld not be able to buy it again with 20% off but next time i would only loose 10% from the ship price.

However if you want small ships get used more, make missions where u need that type of ship. On the other hand you dont need to do missions with only credit reward, because you can bounty hunt, mine, explore and trade anyway.
If you make nice quests for specific ships with some special rewards and also Wing Quests with different ships needed that would lead to more fun and small ship useage.

Untill you have all ships and be Elite in all Ranks the game is mostly all about money. So ppl choose the fastest way to earn money. Bigger ships usually allow to make more money thats why they get used so much.

Actually if you increase costs maybe even more ppl will use big ships to earn enought credits to pay for the costs.

Also everyone plays this game different, for different reasons and with different goals. If i look at me i like playing this game because it rewards me for playing it. Since i dont have that much playtime, i try to be very effective in my tasks. If i want to earn money i spend the whole time doin what earns me the most money with the right ship at the right time. Using a Cobra for trading while i can use a T9 instead makes no sense, because my gametime is wasted. However if i look for fights i would choose the Cobra then, if i had to choose between that two only.

 

[Schattenbogen]

Its a game after all and games should be fun.

Never fun to play a game in cheat mode.

 

[AndiBcool]

Hmm are you accusing me to cheat ? With cheating i would betray me only and i have no need to. I dont PvP, for what do i need the OP ship the fastest way ?

There where many CGs on with good payouts the time im playing the game now. Take the last combat one, basicly do 3-4 hours BH around that station with USS, get to top 15% that way and earn 10 Mil for that.
Could be done even in small ships, so no rocket sience. There also was a whole month Diso corn at 50t made you 780-800k every trip ( i get now 600k-700k every 10 mins in a T9 btw. and im sure this isnt even the best route ).
If your unable to make money and find good oportunitys its not my problem, but how is that cheating ? Give u a hint read the forums more often.

If there is a 20% discount on ships and fittings for quite some time, i will take advantage of it. If that was a bug after weeks it was active, how could i know ?

Repair costs are now as there are. I did also repair my ship with the expensive repairs. Where is the cheat in that ?

If repairs eat up all earnings, how you get rewarded and progress ? If some pirate damages my T9 while i run from him, it costs me around half of my eranings with low damage because the A trusters cost near as much as the ship itself.

So what happens if the repairs where more expensive. I might have to do serveral trade runs to get the costs back from that few seconds damage.
So lets say i need 6 runs to get the repair costs back that would be around 4,2 mil. Then the 7th time i got interdicted again and take damage. For what should i do trading then ? Sure i could outfit the T9 different but then its even less effective but would maybe save me repairs. I could just jump in my Vulture or Python and go BH instead, more credits earned and also low risk to get damage. Even mining would be better.

So because you think the repair costs are to low everyone plays this game in cheat mode ? Is that what you trying to say ?

How that, i dont try to alter the costs and never did. I play the game as it is given to me.

If you call ppl cheater that want to alter the repair costs, look in the mirror.

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

I love it too! You have to worry about damage, now. At least, until you get really good.

 

[AndiBcool]

Btw. Some fun stuff with small ships:
[video=youtube;FIm3dfDH7Bs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIm3dfDH7Bs[/video]

 

[NeilF]

All they need to do now is cap/lower rebuy costs. That way people will actually be less likely to combat log etc.

If we ever want to see individuals actually risking their big ships (eg: Pythons and Anacondas) in big battles, we'll need to penalise them slightly less for siply having the good manners to stick in the battle and not combat log.

If someone is about to lose 15mCR why not combat log & save yourself hours of effort to replace that money? If they're about to instead lose 1.5mCR? Surely it's less likely?

 

[John Stoutbeard]

Yeah sad thing about this game is there is no real money sink.

Now you got me curious.
Why would this be making you sad?
You want your earnings to be reduced more quickly?

Why is there a need for a moneysink in elite?
I can understand it from a business (Frontier) perspective - but wearing my own pants, I cannot see why I would want a sink at all.
Perhaps you can tell me what I'm missing?

I'm thinking more in the lines of, (shamelessly quoting wiki here):

The intended purpose of gold sinks is to remove currency from the game, as excess currency leads to inflation of player driven prices. Game designers must balance between scarcity of currency and ease of acquiring currency.

EDIT, Addendum: Adjusting repair costs due to gameplay or balance reasons, I have no problems understanding those reasons and effects.
But pure money sink's, apparantly improving the gameplay from a players perspective, is a somewhat strange concept for me. Since we don't have a player driven economy or real money trading.

 

[SchroedingersNeko]

Get back to the station, and my repair costs were... 157k credits. On a Clipper.

Edited your post for this one line.

How on earth are you only paying 157k in repairs with 75% hull left?, I took the same amount of damage hull left and I was left with a bill of 375k, also repairing at an industrial station too which should have lowered the costs.