About the "upgrade to alpha" offer

[tooterfish]

It's looking to me that the Alpha/Beta/Gamma phases are going to take a hell of a lot longer than anybody ever anticipated and all the while we're being asked for MORE money with enticements to draw us in. It's slightly unprofessional in the way that it's being handled and very annoying, in my view. The more I see , read, and hear about this "JOIN ALPHA FOR A FEE" offer the more I am inclined to feel disgruntled at all of it.

The opportunity to upgrade was added at the request of this community.

Initially, you couldn't upgrade with the store at all, which people were also "disgruntled" about... so Frontier were damned if they did and damned if they didn't.

Want my advice? Stop being "disgruntled" by entirely optional things that have no bearing on your enjoyment of the final game. No one is forcing you to upgrade, the opportunity has been provided just in case you're one of the people who wanted it. If you don't want it, literally nothing has changed for you. Nothing. You're coming across as complaining just for the sake of it, because Frontier couldn't win either way.

 

[jedt]

.... I stopped £20 short of Alpha access because I believed in what was laid out initially and decided Alpha access was not something I was interested in taking part in. Now I read it's going to cost me £50 (LOL?!?!)

this doesn't make sense.... if you are not, as you stated, interested in taking part in the alpha how is it going to cost you £50?

everyone (afaia) got those emails even people, like me, who already backed the kickstarter.... i declined the offer. i made comment on the fact that the company that could procedurally generate the milky didn't seem to be able to apply a filter to a mail merge. then it was pointed out to me that they were just letting everyone know what was going on.

 

[ATARI.]

The opportunity to upgrade was added at the request of this community.

Initially, you couldn't upgrade with the store at all, which people were also "disgruntled" about... so Frontier were damned if they did and damned if they didn't.

Want my advice? Stop being "disgruntled" by entirely optional things that have no bearing on your enjoyment of the final game. No one is forcing you to upgrade, the opportunity has been provided just in case you're one of the people who wanted it. If you don't want it, literally nothing has changed for you. Nothing. You're coming across as complaining just for the sake of it, because Frontier couldn't win either way.

I agree entirely (if you don't want it, don't buy it) but I think you're missing the point a bit. Since alpha 1 the general impression being given by FD is that the priority is getting people in to the alpha which is leaving a sour taste in the mouth of those that are sat back waiting for the beta/release of the game.

I'm in the alpha, but I can understand those that are sat back waiting for their access (which many thought would be this month) while most of the news coming from FD is about new ways to pay for alpha and how amazing alpha is.

 

[Squicker]

I'm in the alpha, but I can understand those that are sat back waiting for their access (which many thought would be this month) while most of the news coming from FD is about new ways to pay for alpha and how amazing alpha is.

FD are simply making a PR shambles of the whole alpha thing. First it's not on, then it is for some ridiculous fee, then it's a lesser but seemingly illogical fee, and now another discounted fee, but for a short time. It sure makes them come across as unprofessional, there is no doubt about that.

But, the beta was always apt to be delayed, possibly by significant amounts of time, that's just the nature of stuff. I personally think FD were not that good at the comms in this area with their backers, but many people did anticipate delays anyway.

It's a game, it might be a good game, it even might be a GREAT game, it might be total garbage for all we know. But whatever it is going to be it will be released when it's released. People need to chill out and play some of the other awesome games out there which they have full release access to right this minute. A watched pot never boils ;-)

 

[tooterfish]

FD are simply making a PR shambles of the whole alpha thing. First it's not on, then it is for some ridiculous fee, then it's a lesser but seemingly illogical fee, and now another discounted fee, but for a short time. It sure makes them come across as unprofessional, there is no doubt about that.

As far as I'm aware there's only ever been one fee, £200. The discount is just an opportunity to pay the difference from your backer level to gain access.

It's not all over the place, it's actually incredibly simple if you go to the source and read it for yourself. What's all over the place is people's misinterpretations, which seemingly get reiterated without any fact checking at all. It's like a game of Chinese whispers, only with more complaining.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

!

I'm in the alpha, but I can understand those that are sat back waiting for their access (which many thought would be this month) while most of the news coming from FD is about new ways to pay for alpha and how amazing alpha is.

In nutshell everyone's in beta feels left outside in cold. I can speak from my experience - I thought I could handle it, after all, we have streams, we have Youtube videos played by much better players than me. Still I wanted to play quite badly, and I only got it because of some kind soul (Thank you!).

This was kinda expected. What we wasn't mentally trained for is quite long alpha. So in result people in beta feel left out, even they know they will get better deal in the end (it's torture to wait for next alpha phase fix I must say ). It doesn't matter, because they want to play game now.

Also I disagree about upgrade of alpha done wrong. I agree no matter what FD would do there would be disappointed people, but I still commend FD for backers upgrade, and especially people with founder tier. Also let's remember that while they are not technically 'indie', and is quite experienced company, they don't have lot of their own sales and e-commerce people (btw, they are hiring), because not long time ago they worked for publishers, not for themselves. They don't think how to best sell game at this point - in fact alpha price alone makes "cash grab" idea very moot, because it goes against basic rules of supply and demand.

I would like to point out that their original goal wasn't to collect any pledges after Kickstarter. Only with popular request and some convincing they did backer's app, which did amazingly well by the way.

So thank you FD for *trying* to the best thing for supporters and backers. They don't always succeed, but nobody's perfect.

 

[Squicker]

As far as I'm aware there's only ever been one fee, £200. The discount is just an opportunity to pay the difference from your backer level to gain access.

It's not all over the place, it's actually incredibly simple if you go to the source and read it for yourself. What's all over the place is people's misinterpretations, which seemingly get reiterated without any fact checking at all. It's like a game of Chinese whispers, only with more complaining.

Nope I checked the facts (not that I am interested in alpha). First it was 200ukp, then for me as a Founder it was 100ukp, now it is 50ukp. I actually did a test on this as well - in store you only get to see your discount if you go to pay for it, so to check my facts I went through most of the process. This then actually broke the store for me and it was back to 100ukp! I raised a ticket to bring this fact to FD's attention.

Whilst I am a Founder and I wish FD all the success in the world, I am not so blind I can't see they are making a pig's ear of this particular element.

I must clarify, I have zero interest in alpha-testing their game for them (I expect to get paid when I work), but I have followed this closely and checked my facts to the point of near sale, as I was very interested in what the community were saying but wanted to check it was not 'Chinese whispers', to coin your term. My personal view is the professional thing from FD would be to have said, "KS is over, you can no longer buy into alpha\beta etc". Nice and simple. It's not like getting to alpha their game for them is some life or death big deal.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Nope I checked the facts (not that I am interested in alpha). First it was 200ukp, then for me as a Founder it was 100ukp, now it is 50ukp. I actually did a test on this as well - in store you only get to see your discount if you go to pay for it, so to check my facts I went through the process. This then actually broke the store for me and it was back to 100ukp! I raised a ticket.

Whilst I am a Founder and I wish FD all the success in the world, I am not so blind I can't see they are making a pig's ear of this particular element.

That's kinda unjustified statement. Limited offers come and go. Do you complain when LCD panel or multimedia center you want gets heavy discount right next day you have bought it?

They went 'no upgrades' stance on preorder shop, which I think should stayed. However, there were lot of requests and pleading for upgrade path from beta - which they provided (and I am thankful for that). Then founder level guys complained they want to get into alpha too - and again FD rethought their offer and extended it.

This is not *usual* sales tactic. After all, it's selling access to alpha, ongoing event, which will end after ~ 5 weeks. Things change very rapidly.

 

[tooterfish]

So perhaps check your own facts sometime.

I have, it's working as described, consistently. My exact backer level is discounted from the price at point of sale...

 

[Squicker]

That's kinda unjustified statement. Limited offers come and go. Do you complain when LCD panel or multimedia center you want gets heavy discount right next day you have bought it?

Nope, couldn't care less. You are misinterpreting me. Money is money, it is what it is, depending how much of it one has something has a relative value. For me whilst alpha funding level is an easily affordable thing, I do not see any personal value in me alpha-testing their game for them, even if it only cost me £1. I consider it their job, not mine. So I am in no way complaining about cost changes or anything monetary related in this, I want to make that very clear here.

I am merely saying that with FD's constant change of tack in this area they look unprofessional. That's my personal opinion as a backer (ie I am on their side) and I fully see why some people have become disgruntled with FD and think perhaps they are even performing a cash grab.

I mean, it's not like a company has never before performed a cash grab on gamers... As backers we may have some implicit trust in FD that they won't do that, doesn't mean others here on the open forum must have that same level of trust.

 

[TheOohChild]

The desire to voice my opinion is what's getting the better or me. It has nothing to do with frustration or imagination. LOL

Maybe you're painting me with the same brush that 99% of other Elite fans were painted with, or at least the ones who requested being able to pay-to-play the Alpha phase. I'm not one of the "I want it now!" crowd. If I were, I'd have pledged that extra £20 required to be part of the Alpha a long time ago. N'est-ce pas, mon ami?

Well, you manufactured some scenario where Frontier has no interest in releasing the game, just emptying your coin purse. I thought that was pretty imaginative. And you seemed frustrated that the estimated release dates from the KS are no longer going to hold up.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I am merely saying that with FD's constant change of tack in this area they look unprofessional. That's my personal opinion as a backer (ie I am on their side) and I fully see why some people have become disgruntled with FD and think perhaps they are even performing a cash grab.

I mean, it's not like a company has never before performed a cash grab on gamers... As backers we may have some implicit trust in FD that they won't do that, doesn't mean others here on the open forum must have that same level of trust.

It is all good, just my logic doesn't fit "they look unprofessional" and "they are performing a cash grab" in one sentence. Because for all I know, all cash grabs are usually very slick done (SC ships sale).

 

[Perseus]

I am merely saying that with FD's constant change of tack in this area they look unprofessional. That's my personal opinion as a backer . . .

I don't think it makes them seem unprofessional. In fact, I see it as somewhat encouraging that they are open to suggestions and opportunities.

I can understand frustration about the focus (and possible length) of the Alpha. The OP has valid points that I myself felt prior to the Founder discount. I stopped at £150 during KS because of the need to build a new rig and because the Beta looked to start around February/March. Now, Beta is postponed until Alpha is deemed completed and Alpha subject matter is awash in the forums. This leaves Beta backers, who are now waiting more time than Alpha's, feeling a little bit locked out. The attitude of "It's your choice, take it or leave it" is a tad insensitive. The posts that complain about people complaining strike me as nothing more than haughty posturing.

 

[huwthomas]

I'm just glad to have the chance to upgrade just by paying the difference, since in fairness I did miss the original alpha boat out of my own choice ... I can't even claim to have been misled by the beta schedule, which I always thought was astonishingly aggressive even back in the KS days.

The people I do feel sorry for are those who upgraded before the new terms were announced.

As for the high cost of alpha (and beta, for that matter), that comes out of the way ED was funded, without people pledging against those costs, there might be no ED to look forward to at all (success was by no means a foregone conclusion for most of the funding campaign).

 

[-o-]

Advantage of this strategy:
- Generates revenue.
- Increase active alpha user base, thus decreasing other non-active bases such as beta, thus generally increasing user happiness and reducing complaints about delays.
- Increase active alpha use base, increasing the chances of users reporting previously unreported bugs, as well as increasing the associated cost-free advertising the additional alpha users provide.

Disadvantage of this strategy:
- Confirms to customers a lack of confidence and consistency on pricing.
- May trigger some investors to question why the company is reducing the value of its product.
- May confirm to some users that the main purpose of the polished alpha product is to generate revenue, possibly reducing their faith the company.

I'm sure such decisions are analysed carefully by FD, and they have concluded the overall effects are beneficial to their interests. We now have the same opportunity to make our own analysis and make a decision which most benefits our interests.

 

[Squicker]

It is all good, just my logic doesn't fit "they look unprofessional" and "they are performing a cash grab" in one sentence. Because for all I know, all cash grabs are usually very slick done (SC ships sale).

Well, indeed.

It's all merely personal opinion and stance because none of us know what they are actually thinking, or saying in board meetings. I'd personally be very surprised if FD were saying, "let's milk these suckers like cats while we can!!", because I think FD simply want to make the best Elite game they can. But I do get it when people who perhaps don't have the pre-history of the brand or haven't backed, start to get a little edgy in this period.

Anyway, it's time for me to retire, having had my forum fix for the day

 

[Squicker]

I don't think it makes them seem unprofessional. In fact, I see it as somewhat encouraging that they are open to suggestions and opportunities.

Yes, it definitely can be seen both ways. Both views having merit IMHO.

Now it is definitely bed-time. Too many cocktails and my eyes are blurry...

 

[Penthux]

Well, you manufactured some scenario where Frontier has no interest in releasing the game, just emptying your coin purse. I thought that was pretty imaginative. And you seemed frustrated that the estimated release dates from the KS are no longer going to hold up.

I manufactured no scenario. I raised the question of when Alpha would end and Beta would begin... if ever. Due to the extended Alpha period incorporating multiplayer I laughed to myself as I envisaged many future Alpha phases where people were invited to spend more money with the enticement of "joining Alpha and having an influence on the development of the game".

I also mentioned that the KS raised way more funds than Frontier actually asked for but now the message is, "As well as giving us even more valuable financial support, you will experience Elite: Dangerous immediately and start influencing the rest of the game's development." Frontier also stated they have "private backers" who ploughed a load of cash into the project. So, what I'm really manufacturing is a question of why they're asking for more money NOW when the requested amounts have already been raised (and surpassed) and why there's very little information/news about what's going on in development. As I said earlier, the latest Dev Diary is 2:11 in length and that includes the intro. Frontier are asking for valuable financial support for what reason exactly? Is it because they are aware of how desperate people are to play E: D and are cashing in on that hunger knowing many people WILL pay an additional "join Alpha" fee? Maybe David Braben wants a new Lear jet or something...

I'll wait for Beta even if it takes another 19 years to release an Elite sequel. I'm not paying another penny to Frontier until the final game is released and they start asking for subscriptions or some other money spinning scheme. I thought we all knew what the plan was during KS. It was a case of "After KS ends you will have missed the chance to pledge further so PLEDGE NOW!" which most people did. Frontier made it possible to up your pledge after KS ended, ergo putting more money into the project. I thought this was a pretty good idea because of the timing of the KS over the Christmas period (which in my opinion was a VERY VERY POOR time to do it) because people probably wouldn't have that much cash to spend running up to, and after, Christmas. Did it end on Jan 5th 2013?

Frontier gave themselves a schedule and a timeframe in which to work. Now everything about those initial plans has been changed or re-written. I understand Frontier need the time and space to get things right. This is their call and they're making it and those who are waiting will continue to wait. All the while the offer of giving Frontier more "much needed financial support" is there and things aren't quite adding up in my mind, which experience tells me something just isn't right. I'm concerned as to how long these additional Alpha phases will last and how many there might be. That's it in a nutshell.

this doesn't make sense.... if you are not, as you stated, interested in taking part in the alpha how is it going to cost you £50?

It's not making sense because you're assuming that I want to take part in Alpha perhaps? _IF_ I wanted to be part of Alpha now it would cost me and extra £50 (so it reads in the email sent by Frontier Developments) but when the KS period was in effect it would have only cost me an extra £20 because I pledged £180 in total. Hence, _IF_ I chose to join Alpha _NOW_ it would cost me more than originally stated (£200) but I'm confused as to why it's _MORE_ money now. Makes sense?

 

[TheOohChild]

You're really overanalyzing that Frontier email. I would respond to everything else, but you're just repeating yourself, and I would just be repeating other responses in this thread.

 

[Penthux]

You're really overanalyzing that Frontier email. I would respond to everything else, but you're just repeating yourself, and I would just be repeating other responses in this thread.

Just making sure you "get me" without any further assumptions, insinuations or putting words between my words.