The New Guilds and Player Owned Stations Discussion Thread.

[Malpherian]

Private? Guild only? How did this fit into an open galaxy? So I can earn permits for background sim restricted systems but guilds could lock me out of others, on a whim? Still not seeing "content" and your statement of it changing nothing, game wise, is still a load of old tosh when it quite clearly would.

Not restricted systems, restricted stations/Bases.

I am sure if a guild got powerful enough politically they "Might" be able to restrict one system or a few. But really.... There's 400 Billion others who gives a frak?

And really mate, if you can't imagine the content and work it would take a guild to do that, Content wise... and how others might try and prevent them content wise...

Then your not really thinking now are you?

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I mean what? You'd rather an empty useless system with no purpose be there instead?


Tell me honestly which one of those sound more fun.... You get 3 guesses and the first 2 don't count.

 

[jabokai]

Not restricted systems, restricted stations/Bases.

I am sure if a guild got powerful enough politically they "Might" be able to restrict one system or a few. But really.... There's 400 Billion others who gives a frak?

And really mate, if you can't imagine the content and work it would take a guild to do that, Content wise... and how others might try and prevent them content wise...

Then your not really thinking now are you?

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I mean what? You'd rather an empty useless system with no purpose be there instead?


Tell me honestly which one of those sound more fun.... You get 3 guesses and the first 2 don't count.

Sounds like yet another territory game to me. There's so many of those already I don't see it adding anything at all to the game, especially when we already have powerplay and players will be able to sponsor a specific faction (which can all neatly be avoided by anyone who doesn't care about PP). Also, makes players static, instead of rovers, do people really want that? To just sit somewhere with a "get orf my land" type of game when, as you say, there are 400 billion - so why would a guild actually want to annex a system? As you suggest - who would care?!

 

[smiths121]

Hello Malpherian,

Not sure you can set guilds far enough away that power play expanding out and guild expanding in would not meet at some point. The Elite Lore masters would have heart attacks, but it would pro-long how long I can play the game.

Many people shoot at me today, and some have even met me! For me PvP Combat is less than 15 of what I actually do, encounters are intense and memorable just as it says on the Kickstart tin, I will reiterate it is the axis of access, control and ownership I object to. Organised groups I am pro.

Simon

Simon

You can make a group from the log in screen. Pretty sure it does not have a limit. (Might be wrong haven't really tested it). Wings are the open Mode Co Op, but you can have up to 32 people at once in your sphere in Open mode. (From what I have read in the notes). Not sure what the big deal is about corps or guilds anyway, all they will do is improve the game. You can always section areas off where their "Influence" can not be spread. EvE does it, shouldn't be that difficult for ED.

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Player interaction now (in ED) is the same as it is in EvE, Actually.. it's more dangerous there's no Highsec in ED, and no safe zones, I'm not sure what your point is, if your fine with player interaction.... ? Anyone can shoot you at any time they want currently. Nothing changes with my suggestions. The game just gets more content....

And if being shot was not your complaint, please clarify exactly what your issue with my suggestion is.


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On access and control... There's 400 Billion systems... Seriously doubt you'll run into a real issue trying to get somewhere.... Especially since Guilds should not be able to control core systems (the 100k system bubble around the starter and NPC areas).

Guilds will control the systems in the "Neutral zones" outside this bubble. Much like Nullsec in EvE. You can still go exploring, but like any system currently in open mode you may get shot. Nothing changes here either as this is the case now anyway.

So again... Still not really changing anything game wise. Just adding content.


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Emphasis on the number 400 Billion needs to be placed here as I sincerely think the mods and some of you all resisting this idea honestly haven't really a clue how many systems that really is, and how impossible it would be for a guild to control even a fraction of that.

Let me break it down for you,

The planet earth has about "9" billion people on it, counting every man woman and child. Only about 25k max of those plays ED. it would take over 35 Billion Clones of the planet earth with people playing ED simultaneously..... TO even put a dent in the games system mass.

So stop worrying, the game is far too vast for this to EVER be an issue. (Which is the point) Wink, Wink. "At the Devs". Yea that's right, I got that. It's the only reason you'd make the game this damn big, SO big that no matter how many guilds or corps or groups own power they can never be anything other then an insignificant dust ball compared to the whole of the Game itself.

Lets go big for a sec, EVEN IF every man woman and child on the planet all 9 billion joined the same Guild..... That guild would only control about 3%-6% of the Games systems.

I mean really.....

Now please, tell me again how guilds controlling everything would be an issue.. I want you to. Because now everyone knows, that's a load of crock.

 

[Malpherian]

Sounds like yet another territory game to me. There's so many of those already I don't see it adding anything at all to the game, especially when we already have powerplay and players will be able to sponsor a specific faction (which can all neatly be avoided by anyone who doesn't care about PP). Also, makes players static, instead of rovers, do people really want that? To just sit somewhere with a "get orf my land" type of game when, as you say, there are 400 billion - so why would a guild actually want to annex a system? As you suggest - who would care?!

If you found a system with highly valuable resources which were very rare, and required in crafting rare mods... Wouldn't you want exclusive access to it for your guild? (Just an example). You have to think outside the box mate. There are a ton of reasons why a guild might want it's own permit access only system.

And a ton more why that guild would suddenly become a target for other people and guilds/Corps alike.

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On PP... I don't really see it going anywhere. Just seems like the same old stuff in the same areas to me. ED's player pop is not really high enough to effect much change on it considering how big it is. And depending on the development direction. ED's pop may only get smaller, not larger making PP eventually... go nowhere at all.

You really need a much larger player pop to see real expansion and real change for PP. This game is built to support millions of people, it only has a few thousand at most currently.

 

[Robert Maynard]

If you found a system with highly valuable resources which were very rare, and required in crafting rare mods... Wouldn't you want exclusive access to it for your guild? (Just an example). You have to think outside the box mate. There are a ton of reasons why a guild might want it's own permit access only system.

And a ton more why that guild would suddenly become a target for other people and guilds/Corps alike.

While that may be desired by a Guild, other core features in the game make territory / resource control impossible - all players in all game modes and on all platforms share the same galaxy state - players in a different game mode cannot be stopped from accessing areas that a Guild might like to keep other players out of.

You really need a much larger player pop to see real expansion and real change for PP. This game is built to support millions of people, it only has a few thousand at most currently.

Steam stats cannot be used to determine how many players are online at any time - not all players use Steam.

 

[Herik]

NO on Guilds, and no messing with 'play modes' to give Guilds unlimited freedoms....

 

[Chris Majere]

By looking at the results of this poll so far, 65% of ED's player base are for Guilds. The message looks pretty clear to me!

 

[Asp Explorer]

Remember - this was the poll that got sockpuppeted

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Alliances. That was the name of the player groups promised in the DDA's. I'm still all for them. Player cohesion = player content. We need more content, and good content, and this is one of the many ways you get it.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Alliances. That was the name of the player groups promised in the DDA's. I'm still all for them. Player cohesion = player content. We need more content, and good content, and this is one of the many ways you get it.

Alliances became Wings....

 

[EUS]

Crafting? What type of crafting?
Will I have to buy an enchanting table for my hold?
Shape rubies so my lasers pew better?

 

[Cody]

Crafting? What type of crafting?

Basket-weaving!

 

[Herik]

Most likely you wouldn't be trading in a guild owned system. Have you ever been out of the Bubble of populated areas? there's no stations to trade at, and anything built by guilds would probably be set to private or guild only. Especially since there is no player economy, if they add one then sure, I am positive Guilds/Corps would open their stations up for trading, even add a political game in there for standings and rep with said guild. Lots of content to be had there, especially if the guild owns a nice resource rich special resource planet or something, I don't know, tons of stuff you can do with it though.

Especially if they add crafting.

And of course they wouldn't add one. No, if Guilds are allowed in the game, expect your game freedom (in Open), to be much less and even in Solo (same trading situation), thus less.

Guilds are NOT good for this game...

 

[EUS]

Homemade dreamcatchers for the cockpit?

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Alliances became Wings....

Not cutting it. Read the Alliance description again, even though it's vague it clearly outlines a guild type structure, not a grouping mechanic.

In addition to the groups presented above a player can be a part of an Alliance with other players. This is a separate entity that operates within the boundaries of whatever group the players are in:

•A player can only ever be in a single alliance at a time
•Alliances allow players to indicate trust between themselves so they:
•Can freely jettison and pick up cargo between themselves
•Can fire upon each other without criminal implications
•Gain the same criminal fine/bounty if one or more other members commits a crime
•This only occurs if the player is in the same vicinity as the player committing the crime

•Have the ability to slave hyperdrive systems together to make travel easier
•Get matched as a whole during slaved hyperspace travel and if not possible spawn in their own instance at a location rather than splitting the alliance up

•Alliances in the all players group allow those in the alliance to come across other human players as normal except the game is explicitly trying to keep the alliance together when they arrive at the same location through match-making
•This is in addition to the normal preference system and operates by giving a much higher weighting to alliance members when determining preferences over friends for example

•Alliances in a private group would only meet other players in that private group
•Depending on the size of the group, players may typically be in an alliance with everyone else in the private group but multiple alliances can exist in a larger private group if desired

•Creating an alliance is handled exactly the same way as creating a private group with the caveat that anyone in the group can invite other players (including non-friend players) into the alliance and no one is the leader
•In the all players group any player can be invited into the alliance by any alliance member
•In a private group only the players in the private group can be invited into an alliance by alliance members
•Players can vote to kick an alliance member out of the alliance
•After a set time limit the vote is closed and the majority is taken to decide the outcome unless all members have already voted or the required number of votes is reached

•Players can leave freely of their own accord

•Any criminal status or reputation earned as a consequence of other alliance members behaviour is kept after leaving an alliance

 

[Robert Maynard]

Not cutting it. Read the Alliance description again, even though it's vague it clearly outlines a guild type structure, not a grouping mechanic.

Try reading it with "Alliance" replaced with "Wing":

In addition to the groups presented above a player can be a part of an Wing with other players. This is a separate entity that operates within the boundaries of whatever group the players are in:

•A player can only ever be in a single Wing at a time
•Wings allow players to indicate trust between themselves so they:
•Can freely jettison and pick up cargo between themselves
•Can fire upon each other without criminal implications
•Gain the same criminal fine/bounty if one or more other members commits a crime
•This only occurs if the player is in the same vicinity as the player committing the crime

•Have the ability to slave hyperdrive systems together to make travel easier
•Get matched as a whole during slaved hyperspace travel and if not possible spawn in their own instance at a location rather than splitting the Wing up

•Wings in the all players group allow those in the Wing to come across other human players as normal except the game is explicitly trying to keep the Wing together when they arrive at the same location through match-making
•This is in addition to the normal preference system and operates by giving a much higher weighting to Wing members when determining preferences over friends for example

•Wings in a private group would only meet other players in that private group
•Depending on the size of the group, players may typically be in an Wing with everyone else in the private group but multiple Wings can exist in a larger private group if desired

•Creating an Wing is handled exactly the same way as creating a private group with the caveat that anyone in the group can invite other players (including non-friend players) into the Wing and no one is the leader
•In the all players group any player can be invited into the Wing by any Wing member
•In a private group only the players in the private group can be invited into an Wing by Wing members
•Players can vote to kick an Wing member out of the Wing
•After a set time limit the vote is closed and the majority is taken to decide the outcome unless all members have already voted or the required number of votes is reached

•Players can leave freely of their own accord

•Any criminal status or reputation earned as a consequence of other Wing members behaviour is kept after leaving an Wing

 

[Malpherian]

While that may be desired by a Guild, other core features in the game make territory / resource control impossible - all players in all game modes and on all platforms share the same galaxy state - players in a different game mode cannot be stopped from accessing areas that a Guild might like to keep other players out of.



Steam stats cannot be used to determine how many players are online at any time - not all players use Steam.

1. Wrong. The function for it is already in game via the locked systems for permits. A few tweaks and this could easily be used for guilds rather then simply NPC factions.

2. Your correct, not all ED owners got it from steam, But:

Current Online Peak Today

5,123

6,793

Elite: Dangerous

Speaks for itself.

FYI over 70% of the sales for ED came from Steam. Kickstarter etc. Sure people bought it from other sources as well including the main website, but the main driver was Steam and Valve for development and sales afterwords. With 14.1+ million raised and 500k+ copies sold, I expect better then a 6k peak Online.

I am sure there are numbers that are not showing or being tracked by the source I used (Even though they are dead on with other games), But unless FD is going to post their states, well... We'll have to assume these numbers are legitimate. Since the source is legitimate.

 

[Silektuo99]

This thread blew up the last couple of days on reddit. It is 83% in favor of player guilds, and SOME player-owned stations. Not every station. Or even most stations. Just SOME player-owned stations.

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...please_read_your_game_is_in_turmoil/?sort=new

This is something that would add depth to ED for SOME people. If someone didn't want to take part, then just don't go to a player-owned station. You can still pass through the system like normal.

I want to emphasize that most people commenting in this reddit thread absolutely LOVE the beautiful, immersive game FD has created. This would provide more things to fight over. Friendly traders may need to bring in supplies. Hopefully we can find a function for explorers.

With the 32 man limit per instance, we may need to keep wings to max 16 for battles? Hmm.

I think with the reddit thread getting 83% up-votes, maybe FD could do a poll of players to see how the feel about it? I'm thinking email would be best, as some people have taken breaks but will check on the game with each update. Or a forum poll and just send an email out to all players to visit the poll?

Haha. Please guys. Don't say go play EVE. Don't flame this thread. Just take in the information and hopefully we can get a poll to say yay or nay officially.

No player owned stations. At all. If your tired of Eve try X.

 

[Robert Maynard]

1. Wrong. The function for it is already in game via the locked systems for permits. A few tweaks and this could easily be used for guilds rather then simply NPC factions.

2. Your correct, not all ED owners got it from steam, But:

Current Online Peak Today

5,123

6,793

Elite: Dangerous

Speaks for itself.

FYI over 70% of the sales for ED came from Steam. Kickstarter etc. Sure people bought it from other sources as well including the main website, but the main driver was Steam and Valve for development and sales afterwords. With 14.1+ million raised and 500k+ copies sold, I expect better then a 6k peak Online.

I am sure there are numbers that are not showing or being tracked by the source I used (Even though they are dead on with other games), But unless FD is going to post their states, well... We'll have to assume these numbers are legitimate. Since the source is legitimate.

If Frontier wanted to facilitate territorial control, yes, I would agree - however you should re-visit the EGX:2014 video - DBOBE expresses concern regarding "mafioso" type behaviour of Guilds trying to deny players access to certain places.

The game had around 417k sales before it ever launched on Steam - the last sales figure I read was c.650k. I would be interested in a link to the source of the 70% sales on Steam.

 

[Malpherian]

No player owned stations. At all. If your tired of Eve try X.

So if you all (The nay Sayers on here) don;t want Guilds, Or Emergent Player game play, or player owned housing or anything like that added. What would you like to see, because you all do a lot of saying "NO". But you do very little suggesting what might take it's place instead.

Or would you rather keep 400 billion empty useless systems with no purpose at all other then to "look Pretty". ?

Content, is content, I would rather have some content, then an empty game. But hey That's just me. After you've reached max rank in PP, and have the best ship, and get tired of exploring (Remember not everyone likes to do that) let me know how you feel when you go play another game because there is nothing left to do, and remind me to point at you and go, "Hey" You wanted a dead game with nothing in it, Remember?