You're not creating anything. All of that already exists. Guilds in no way incentivize such behavior.
Edit: As a matter of fact they do the exact opposite. It's boggling how you could make such a leap of logic.
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The New Guilds and Player Owned Stations Discussion Thread.
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You're not creating anything. All of that already exists. Guilds in no way incentivize such behavior.
Edit: As a matter of fact they do the exact opposite. It's boggling how you could make such a leap of logic.
Creating another problem? Or advocating interesting game play? Opinion is the mother of all...
All colours are exactly equal, but their visibility on my phone is not
Still cannot read 90% of what you post.
What color is the background behind the text on your phone? (So I can find colors that pop out here where it is black and also on phones where it is.. whatever color it is on your phones).
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
What color is the background behind the text on your phone? (So I can find colors that pop out here where it is black and also on phones where it is.. whatever color it is on your phones).
Try viewing some of your posts in the other forum themes (available bottom left of the page).
White
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What color is the background behind the text on your phone? (So I can find colors that pop out here where it is black and also on phones where it is.. whatever color it is on your phones).
Suggestion : just use the default colour, which in this BBS is "automatic" - i.e. it changes the colour depending on the theme.
Then use bold and italic to emphasise points.
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Background is default white for me.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
While people are undoubtedly the issue, facilitating those same people in the management and support of large player groups and then hoping fervently that they behave would seem to be rather naïve, wouldn't it?
It exists on a small scale using non-optimal organisation tools with no in-game facilitation.
I doubt that *all* Guilds "do the exact opposite" - it's the ones that don't that would cause concern.
Yup opinions - great, aren't they - we all have them....
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Curious argument that.
You're basically saying that guilds are OK provided they have no people in them.
Guilds can certainly help establish conformity of behaviour but the behaviour that certain guilds conform to isn't necessarily desirable for the majority of players who ultimately log in to elite dangerous to enjoy themselves. Guilds espousing certain actions/behaviours are likely to attract members who have similar intentions. They may be "good" intentions, or they could be "bad" intentions, but the intentions come from the members.
As for wings being like guilds, only by the most loose definition. When people say the word "guild" in the context of an online game they really mean organisations that are sufficiently large enough to achieve objectives in the game they are part of. In WoW this was for a time at least 40 members. That's 10 wings. I can't comment much on EvE because I have never played it but you mentioned yourself that "goonswarm" (or whatever it was) has 10000 or so members. That's 2500 times the largest cohesive group in ED.
A single wing can achieve small-scale objectives (I liken this to group quests or 5-man dungeons from WoW) but it cannot effectively achieve the larger scale goals which I think it is fair to say most guild-forming players would wish to shoot for. That is to say it's pretty hard for 4 people to overthrow factions or control systems etc etc, which is a big part of the "pro guild" argument. With that in mind, how large do you think a guild would have to be in order to (in the present system) achieve actual system/galactic change in the galactic model that ED uses?
Really? So if I go and check now I won't find that the largest organized groups in Open are all pirate/PvP oriented groups? The Fuel rats being the exception.
Nothing is slowing them down, and the only reason they have the largest presence in Open is because Mobius was established as a Private group.
I'm just going to ask a question because your comments to date really highlight a glaring deficiency in your experiences in multiplayer gaming. Have you ever belonged to a guild or organization in a game that was worth a flip? You appear to know next to nothing about the community building blocks they lay down which encourage a healthy and long lasting social network within the game.
Saying a massively multiplayer game doesn't need permanent player groups is like a doctor looking at a patient and saying: "Eh, he doesn't need a pulse. Give him a 30 day prescription for some Aspirin and send him home."
Yes, I mis-spoke, my apologies for not being more clear, I assumed since the topic is about MMO and social aspects it would be assumed that was what I was referring to.
1. Yes in fact a lot of guilds are family based, and consist of only 3-10 people. Others are much larger containing hundreds and even thousands. Many families like to only play games where they and their members can be a group together, so not having them discourages these individuals from not only purchasing the game but playing it as well. (call it a personal want for a lot of casual gamers). I can't tell you how many parents I personally know and am friends with that play games, and wont buy one unless they can form a guild with their kids etc who may live in other areas so they have their family support system (or whatever you would like to call it).
Just look at some of the thread on ESO forums when this was being discussed there (ESO made guilds available to groups of 50+ only and the community rioted and demanded small guilds, after several months of forum debates (And after ZOE lost 30% of it's subscriber base), ZOE (Zennimax Online Entertainment) Relented and patched the game so there could be 5 man guilds). ZOE was under the impression that guilds only consisted of large numbers of people, and it wasn't until the community started showing their disagreement by leaving the game for other more small group friendly Guild allowing games that ZOE realized their mistake. Thankfully, they were able to recover after fixing it.
People take guilds very seriously in the MMO market.
2. ED meets the cover definition (With the exception of it not supporting large groups of players via social structures), I was referring to the more expanded one further down the page which least the features generally found in the vast majority of games which call themselves MMO's.
As pointed out by another poster, Guilds have been a part of the gaming MMO industry since before Elite, back int he 80's, and before that when an MMO was pen and paper D&D. Guilds are a tradition, and a staple of the industry, and I dare say everything except a literal requirement for a successful MMO in the modern age of gaming. (And I hesitate to say not a literal requirement as the definition of MMO clearly implies such).
3. Yes there are some that will be crappy guilds. But there are already some wings in game that are crappy wings. Doesn't mean you should punish the entire community because a few people decide to be s. We do not put people in prison or lock down entire communities because a single person or group of people decide to go on a killing spree. If a guild is disruptive FD has 2 choices, Manually disband the guild, or Let the player base deal with them... EvE lets the players govern themselves. And gives them the tools needed to do it, While CCP still make a stance against the very type of guilds and behaviors you say you don't want.
You can have both, you just have to have a system that encourages the type of guilds you desire in game, and gives them the tools and means to deal with those you don't approve of.
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You may be right; but I suspect in E
Open play, this guild business would blossom much faster than in Eve, if sanctioned...I fixed it, I put everything to automatic and used gold and a darker blue, So the main text should show up black for you now
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Nothing is slowing them down? That rather defeats the argument that Guild features are necessary (from their perspective), doesn't it?
No - never felt the need to. The fact that they have never formed part of the stated game design for E: D causes me no concern at all.
Not all massively multi-player games support Guilds / Clans / etc. - see the definition brought in to the discussion by Malpherian.
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Can you provide one reason why?
Guild X wants to "own" Station Y. They go about this by shooting everyone not in Guild X. Independent Trader A goes to Station Y in Open. What does the guild do to the trader?
No it doesn't defeat the argument. People will organize themselves without these tools but they'll eventually get tired of the extra effort required and stop participating. See the part where I mentioned "Long lasting"
Provide some examples of massively multiplayer games that did not include permanent player organized groups. As you're so fond of saying, Citation needed.
That's already happening. If we were playing a game where players weren't already doing this you could claim it is a legitimate possible repercussion, but that drawback already exists. Nothing will change in that regard.
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We will agree to disagree, but this at least provides some perspective.
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