I like when he posts in light colours - means I can skip that part as clearly it's unimportant as it's been faded out by the author himself.
Ha! Very good jabokai...
The New Guilds and Player Owned Stations Discussion Thread.
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Ha! Very good jabokai...
So if it's already happening, and Guild X blows up trader A - he's not going to get a very nice impression of Guild X and switches to Solo. Guild X cry they have nobody to play with.
Let's ban (or rather: not implement) kitchen knives for everyone. Somebody could kill someone using one after all! People will surely be content with spoons, won't they?
That logic doesn't sound any less naive to me. The solution is not to deny basic features to people inclined to enjoy them, independently of their intentions. It's to keep those in check, who abuse the features. Which is a neverending story, of course, but that's an MMO game to you.
If your actions only affected these people, You'd be correct, however restricting the game to not having guilds because of a small % of players that are Fraks, is like imprisoning an entire community because 3 people decide to rob a bank. You can't punish 1000's of people for the actions of a few.
So let the other "Good" guilds deal with them. It not only provides Content but expands the ED universe in RP ways I can not even begin to describe here. Imagine Huge 1000 man Guilds RPing as Police Forces, Guarding traders, keeping the HQ system area's safe from both players and Rats (NPCs) alike, as well as Small Pirate guilds trying to infiltrate and disrupt such. Or Faction RP guilds well say from Aisling an d(Whatever that Fed guys name is) at war, Can you imagine how much more fun that would make Powerplay when you combine massive player RP Guilds, with the current systems? Hell you'd even have merc guilds that would escourt traders and attack other guilds... for the right price of course...
Your talking some serious content here. And some serious Profits and population rises for FD.
The majority of my statements are not based on opinion. Most are based on documented studies from over 30 years of MMO games (over 20 of which I have been a consistent part of both in Beta testing and Development).
I just happen to agree with them, because I am one of those people that believes belief or support in anything other then what can be proven is ludicrous. I can and have proven Guilds are not the issue, and that the vast majority of them are great for games, not only socially, but financially for the developers and population/content wise for the players.
You can have an opinion that says Guilds are bad for games, great, but the facts and the evidence says otherwise.
Just saying.
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Apologies, I do not have that information. However, as the definition introduced by Malpherian clearly states that "MMOGs often feature in-game support for clans and guilds" the use of "often" rather than something more definitive (like "always", for example) strongly suggests that not all massively multi-player online games include Guilds.
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Oh, they consider that 'hash marks' on their uniforms.
Social activities?
If you dug long enough, you may find a handful of examples over the 30 year period that I've pointed out that hundreds of MMO games have been born, died, or are still chugging along. It is part of what makes them what they are.
There used to be a trend in MUDs for Clanless mechanics in the mid 90's. Every last one of them was short lived and unpopular.
You could also include competitive games under that banner as well, as we have CQC coming which really should have some clan/guild support, even if it's only a TAG.
Mobias, and Goonswarm (Of which I am a part) are the exceptions here, they are large 100k+ man communities. They don;t need guilds to operate.
This is not the majority of the player base however. ANd what these communities do, should not be taken nor influence the decisions concerning the rest of the players and their needs, wants, and desires.
In addition, Money is an issue it takes a lot ot run the larger communities and organize them. The average ED player (or even EvE online) player should not be restricted from being able to have a guild of their own simply because some massive groups can afford the means to accomplish the same goals without the in game support.
Small server match based games don't have hardly any clan support, that's almost always provided by the players. You could even say that's one of the defining reasons they don't fall under the MMO category.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Care to share links to the peer reviewed, uncontested, studies that you are referring to?
I actually agree with you when you say that Guilds are not the problem but people are. As the behaviour of people, if Guilds were to be introduced, within those Guilds and the effects that their behaviour may have on the community at large cannot be proven (until after the fact) but only be guessed at, saying that there would be no problems if Guilds were to be introduced would be ludicrous by your reasoning.
Again, links to facts and evidence would be appreciated - I'll exercise my prerogative to stick by my opinion at this time.
Sorry, can you extropolate?
So you're not suggesting any possible benefits (eg: financial) from being in a guild and running a station?
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a place to call your home
a place you feel safe
profit sharing
a point of pride
a tangible *thing* to care about, develop and defend
a source of meaningful community (ie. Guild) goals
etc
Is ED not enough of an example? It does not matter how many Games do this and that, all ED needs is ED to work. If its the only Game that works without that, or one of 2 or one of 100 - it does not matter.
Depends on the guild and what the trader is offering.
As an Economic Merchant/Industrialist in EvE I am often allowed into many territories where most people would be shot on site, because I keep the stations market full of ships and weapons which the Owning guild uses to defend its territory. You underestimate the role and power of a specialized economic trader/Marketer or even an industrialist.
In answer to your question, it would depend on the guilds mentality, I know lots of guilds in EvE that have strict rules against pirating in which case a trader would be safe, but they wouldn't hesitate to kill you in a combat ship.
I know other guilds that are full pirate and would ransom you and let you live, and others that kill anyone who enters their system. Like the NPC's that try and kill you when your jumping through systems, it's a risk vs reward, and besides with guilds would come communication I'm sure you could make a deal to get into the system if you really wanted to trade there, but if not hey, there are 400 billion other systems, pick a different one if you don;t want to die (Same as you would if you were being harassed by NPC's, which is currently an issue for traders in ED anyway...).
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And totally jarring to what Elite is: one man and his ship.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
The sale of sharp knives is restricted in the UK to buyers over the age of 18, presumably for this reason. Knife crime is no joke.
Sorry, not true, it can and does cost very little to run and organise a large guild, I've lead, had officer rank and been just a minion in many, many examples.
And what's to stop other people docking at your station in Solo, logging into Open, and lulzramming all the snug and happy guildies thinking they are all safe?
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