The Star Citizen Thread v 3.0

[Troels]

I agree we don't know 100% for certain that they will do what they've promised but I have no reason to doubt them either, and I'm a type of guy who gives people the benefit of doubt (if I have any at all) so they can prove themselves before I eventually criticize anything. So I fully agree with you that complaining at this stage won't help anything.

I have no doubt that they will do what they've promised (eventually), but with regards to the flight model, the question is, exactly what have they promised? As far as I can tell all they have really said is that they are still balancing, and that this includes thruster balancing, but as for what the overall goal/vision for the flight model is, they have been quite vague.

 

[Neo-ST]

but with regards to the flight model, the question is, exactly what have they promised?

They haven't explicitly written a promise, but take a look at their 2012 pitch video and tell me does fighting and flying look anything like in AC today? Not to mention how CR bragged about "heavy hotas use" later in his 2012 GDC show and interviews.

 

[Skizomeuh]

I think it's sane to just keep in mind that "what they've promised" in their minds may (will) differ from what one can have in his/hers. (A mantra that applies to any game, actually).

Since AC launch, I for one am pretty sure they're going far from what I expected. The more dev progresses, the more the game looks like a different beast it could have been (for me). I don't care the delays, I even won't care the feature-creep, but I'm sad to feel like SC gamedesign was actually so vague back then, and somehow still is.

if you need examples, beyond flight model :
- the fps aspect reinventing the wheel to have 1:1 anims between first/third person in counterproductive and could have been adressed prior implementation
- when I read the last star marine update, the modular dev design seems a good idea at first, but It looks like they didn't focus that much on what bound them together... sounds like noobish.

It's the gamble on crowdfunding though. I nevertheless don't regret funding SC, I'm happy I never yield to the temptation to embark the "ship buying frenzy" boat.

 

[cptzipzap]

looks like Star Citizens Gameplay will be similar to what the Elite Trailer showed.
( fast jumping into action, walking to the ship, quick responsive flight model, no supercruise)
I find that hilarious.

so Frontier too thinks that action packed gameplay is good, but Elite plays much slower. So when you want the Gameplay from the Elite Release Trailer you have to buy Star Citizen...

 

[Javert]

Is this Derek Smart chap who is stirring up all this trouble the same guy who developed that Battlecruiser 3000 game back in the 80s or 90s (and if I remember correctly took many years and multiple releases to get it working properly?)

If so, pots and kettles spring to mind.

 

[Voivod]

So when you want the Gameplay from the Elite Release Trailer you have to buy Star Citizen...

Yeah, good luck with that.

 

[lysan]

They haven't explicitly written a promise, but take a look at their 2012 pitch video and tell me does fighting and flying look anything like in AC today? Not to mention how CR bragged about "heavy hotas use" later in his 2012 GDC show and interviews.

HOTAS, in SC? Don't make me start, it's a joke. Then they release the SC HOTAS (now with balls) excuse me I don't know if they are laughing at us or generally believe this was a cleaver move.

CIG has a serious broken trust relationship with some of the backers who are not blindly worshiping everything that comes out of the CIG offices.

Heavy use of probation of people who are raising their voice is also an serious issue. (nothing to do with my situation) what they will achieve is turning excited backers into monsters who will join the dark force of Derik Smart. I already know of some heavy rollers who are getting really tired of the situation.

Just look in the C vs. C thread to get a situation report.

 

[Monk]

Is this Derek Smart chap who is stirring up all this trouble the same guy who developed that Battlecruiser 3000 game back in the 80s or 90s (and if I remember correctly took many years and multiple releases to get it working properly?)

If so, pots and kettles spring to mind.

Yup, that is the guy. He has his own MMO sci-fi game, Line of Defense, in development. From what I've heard, it is languishing in Alpha and isn't make great progress.

In my opinion, his game looks rather dated already.

He is just trying to get some publicity, I think. His lawsuit has no basis as the money he is getting all fussy about is DONATED money. KS is not an explicit exchange of money for goods/services. It is a donation that comes with perks...like giving money to pubic broadcasting. You give because you want to support the project.

That being said, I do want to see the lawsuit happen (CIG should counter sue to get their expenses back) just so I can get some legal precedent on what a KS pledge really amounts to in the way of entitlement.

 

[Neo-ST]

HOTAS, in SC? Don't make me start, it's a joke. Then they release the SC HOTAS (now with balls) excuse me I don't know if they are laughing at us or generally believe this was a cleaver move.

CIG has a serious broken trust relationship with some of the backers who are not blindly worshiping everything that comes out of the CIG offices.

Heavy use of probation of people who are raising their voice is also an serious issue. (nothing to do with my situation) what they will achieve is turning excited backers into monsters who will join the dark force of Derik Smart. I already know of some heavy rollers who are getting really tired of the situation.

Just look in the C vs. C thread to get a situation report.

I know that, did you perhaps get me wrong?

 

[Viking]

I have no doubt that they will do what they've promised (eventually), but with regards to the flight model, the question is, exactly what have they promised? As far as I can tell all they have really said is that they are still balancing, and that this includes thruster balancing, but as for what the overall goal/vision for the flight model is, they have been quite vague.

Well, the information is spread around in different sources, including videos, so it's not easy to compile a list to answer that, but if we take a look at the stretch goals we see some concrete promises:

"Extended hardcore flight sim controller support: Flight Chairs, multiple monitors, Track-IR, MFD (Multi Function Displays) and more on launch." ($4.5M)
"The Hangar Module will feature Oculus Rift support." ($12M)

You are right about that they've also mentioned balancing. That includes weapons, thrusters, shields, engines, scanner range, stealth, and other things that tip the balance in one or more directions. Two areas are of special importance though: controller agnostics (all controller types are catered for) and ship balance (no superior ship).

 

[Troels]

They haven't explicitly written a promise, but take a look at their 2012 pitch video and tell me does fighting and flying look anything like in AC today? Not to mention how CR bragged about "heavy hotas use" later in his 2012 GDC show and interviews.

Honestly, the pitch video always looked very on-rails and scripted to me, so I never really took it for anything more than a fancy cinematic demo. Regarding the heavy HOTAS use statement, I think we can all agree that AC, as it stands currently is not really a HOTAS-centric game (although it's not like it's impossible to play with a HOTAS either). Although this is an area where I'll withhold final judgement, until they have finished their balance pass.

so Frontier too thinks that action packed gameplay is good, but Elite plays much slower. So when you want the Gameplay from the Elite Release Trailer you have to buy Star Citizen...

Frontier thinks action packed gameplay looks good (in a cinematic trailer), but that's not the same as saying that they think it is good (within the actual game). Developing and marketing departments are usually quite separate entities for better and for worse.

Well, the information is spread around in different sources, including videos, so it's not easy to compile a list to answer that, but if we take a look at the stretch goals we see some concrete promises:

"Extended hardcore flight sim controller support: Flight Chairs, multiple monitors, Track-IR, MFD (Multi Function Displays) and more on launch." ($4.5M)
"The Hangar Module will feature Oculus Rift support." ($12M)

You are right about that they've also mentioned balancing. That includes weapons, thrusters, shields, engines, scanner range, stealth, and other things that tip the balance in one or more directions. Two areas are of special importance though: controller agnostics (all controller types are catered for) and ship balance (no superior ship).

None of that really says anything about what the goal for the flight model is though, as all of those things are more or less equally compatible with both a more twitchy, friction-less, and FPS-like flight model (what we arguably have now), and a friction and inertia heavy, atmospheric flight model (what many were arguably expecting, and are still hoping for).

To be honest I don't really have any specific preference towards either model (as long as they can somehow manage to achieve some level of controller parity), I just wish they would communicate a bit more clearly what they are going for.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Regarding the heavy HOTAS use statement, I think we can all agree that AC, as it stands currently is not really a HOTAS-centric game (although it's not like it's impossible to play with a HOTAS either). Although this is an area where I'll withhold final judgement, until they have finished their balanced pass.

I wonder if they are going to make their own-branded HOTAS the only one "officially" supported in-game with mouse parity.

 

[Troels]

I wonder if they are going to make their own-branded HOTAS the only one "officially" supported in-game with mouse parity.

CIG already provides profiles for several current HOTAS products (x52, x55, warthog), so I think it's safe to say that that will not be the case.

Of course the inclusion of a trackball is a fairly unique feature, that will be hard to replicate for most other HOTAS products (an analog thumbstick might be able to replicate the functionality to some degree). CIG would probably set up gimbals in such a way, that they mapped optimally to the functional profile of a trackball (although I have a feeling that "optimal" in this case, is still kinda crappy), and thus gimbals would quite likely be set up sub-optimally for a hat-switch or an analog thumbstick, but I don't think CIG would outright prevent players from mapping gimbal control to said controllers.

 

[Confucios]

Regarding the flight model, for it became clearer after the gamescom demo that the agility that were getting with the smaller ships is here to stay, or else they would stand no chance against the bigger ships. Simply because they would not be able to avoid the damage from the turrets while not being able to penetrate their shield defences with the lower tier weapons.

Medium-Big Ships will be very slow, like 150m/s top´s I would guess.

Watching carefully how the Constelation and the Retaliator fly we could see they fly in a more slower/sluggish, more majestic kinda of way, like what ED ships fly.

Retaliator Yawning (slowly) trying to hit with the front(fixed) weapons, Constelation Rolls and gets a higher turning rate avoiding damage.

In summary- After the introduction of the multi-crew ships in AC 2.0 and heavy testing occurs, balance and tuning is bound to happen to several ships.

edit- engrish_typos

 

[Viking]

[...] until they have finished their balance pass.

I don't think it'll be a balance pass, as in just one. Balancing will continue until all ships are implemented in Arena Commander - at least those they plan to implement before the public release of the game.

[...] a friction and inertia heavy, atmospheric flight model (what many were arguably expecting, and are still hoping for).

We'll probably get an atmospheric flight model in planets atmospheres. I don't expect it to ever happen in space.

I just wish they would communicate a bit more clearly what they are going for.

You could always submit a question to the developers or 10 for the Chairman?

 

[Troels]

I don't think it'll be a balance pass, as in just one. Balancing will continue until all ships are implemented in Arena Commander - at least those they plan to implement before the public release of the game.


We'll probably get an atmospheric flight model in planets atmospheres. I don't expect it to ever happen in space.


You could always submit a question to the developers or 10 for the Chairman?

Balancing will of course be an ongoing process up until release (and beyond if necessary), but as we get further and further along CIG should start to get closer and closer to their goal, and as such the changes should start to get smaller and smaller. As such there should be a point were the balancing is not 100% completed as such, but it is close enough that we can accurately predict the end goal, and at that point we can start to pass judgement.

Personally I'm not sure SC will ever have actual flight in planet atmospheres, I don't really think they will diverge to much from the current on rails landing sequences.

As far as submitting questions go, I'm not a subscriber.

 

[Viking]

Personally I'm not sure SC will ever have actual flight in planet atmospheres, I don't really think they will diverge to much from the current on rails landing sequences.

Well, they've said a few times that atmospheric flight will come when procedural generation of planet environments are ready.

 

[Instrument]

CIG just hit a date
the PTU 1.2 with the social module just went live for limited numbers invites by email

 

[Confucios]

Indeed first player's batch is already exploring ArCorp!

edit- movie removed b/c NDA reasons.

 

[Zetta]

Indeed first player's batch is already exploring ArCorp!

Not sure if posting that video was a good idea considering the NDA people need to agree to before playing the social module.

I quite like the exterior style they're going for although it seems a bit off having dirty premises and then spotless, shiny showrooms next to each other. Do you know if character collision detection will be implemented?