The Star Citizen Thread v 3.0
- Thread starter Jenner
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CIG has always spoke about building SC in instances any reason you can not have 2 maps next to each other to make a map twice the size and then repeat this to get the size map that you want?
No, not manually. You ship will be flying in the area but will be on "rails". Like a forced Docking Computer. (initial release, no clue what they will do later)
Though, that's not to say CIG won't create planetary areas you can fly around. These will likely be places with little to no traffic. Or places with designated boundaries.
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Probably not missing much in fairness it sounds like. The best damn dance sim in space I'm hearing
Aw, that's not really fair, Chris has spent a lot of time and money getting those mo-cap dance steps just right
To me it all looks a bit, erm ...
[video=youtube;tdbt-sx5MDc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdbt-sx5MDc[/video]
Mu77ley
Volunteer Moderator
You could do that, but you would need loading screens between each map, which would be a bit rubbish in a flight game to be honest.
ED has them, or had you not noticed.
Rofl that accent is spot on, G-lock is officially the gay bar of the galaxy!
A better version of the Nyx Landing Video was re-uploaded:
[video=youtube;Z2YMlnn4Ngk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2YMlnn4Ngk[/video]
so..if there's going to be a different detailed environment for every different planet and they plan on having hundreds of star systems....how long is it gonna take to make all these environments?...or are there just supposed to be like ten planets you can land on? I suppose it could be like freelancer in which you had unique environments for important planets and then others that basically reused more or less the same environments.
What's better about this? It's the same...
we will never know they have pulled the old one
my memory is telling me that the smoke at the start is new and that the old version had more mountains in the backdrop while this one has lots of asteroids
or it may just be an improvement in FPS
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ok my memory is playing tricks on me found the original on Vimeo its 2 days old at this time
https://vimeo.com/137655209
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The new onee seems to have some other ships flying around, added effects (smoke) and better overall visibility, (you can now clearly see the asteroids broken pieces), performance also improved with less frame-rate issues on the landing part.
The old video is still available on youtube so we can make a mash up and spot the differences:
http://youtubedoubler.com/gl7v
Old = Left|Right= New
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so I was right about the smoke
looks like they updated the Vimeo version already hence my confusion
looks like they updated the Vimeo version already hence my confusion
Have you used CE before? No. Didn't think so.
Segmented worlds, or "Map Streaming" as it's actually called in CE, comes with it's own limitations. Basically you end up with a whole bunch of tradeoffs that result in you having to chose where to place the seams - as you still have seams. Yes you can stream segment content ahead of time but you can't make all of it visible ahead of time.
It's also peculiar that double precision isn't being backported. Allegedly CIG did this task in a few man-months - which is nigh impossible considering that they'd have to adapt physics, networking and tools. Heck even the spatial audio stuff is affected by this. Maybe they just hacked something together, I dunno. But judging from the fact how many people don't know the difference between a 64-bit executable and double precision math, I wouldn't be surprised if they'd just make up claims. You won't know the difference anyway, remember? They're not simulating the proportions of planets anyway. It's just a sphere with a few dozen km in relative size.
Not that any of this matters because AFAIK map streaming is not available yet, and if you do double precision you don't really need them anymore. Map streaming was hinted at for 3.8, but we're at 3.8.3 now and no sight of it yet. The thing we get to use is called Layer Streaming and it allows you to segment one big CE map which is too complex to handle into smaller manageable chunks, and is basically meant to be used to optimize games that are just too heavy for consoles to handle. It's a pain for the map designers because for them to properly test their layer definitions, they have to run the actual game binary instead of being able to just try it in the editor. So generally it's much easier to just optimize the map as a whole and make it the same for all target platforms. At the end of the day you still run in the same coordinate system with the same limitations: You either run into the map size limits (8192x8192 AFAIK, but correct me if I'm wrong), or you scale down your actors to the point where lack of precision screws up physics and collision detection.
Mu77ley
Volunteer Moderator
The only loading screen is the hyperspace jump sequence. That's not too jarring (and is perfectly understandable)
Less toxic posts would be very much appreciated.Aw, that's not really fair, Chris has spent a lot of time and money getting those mo-cap dance steps just right
To me it all looks a bit, erm ...
I'd say we have a really great window shopping simulator. But just wait 'till we can all go and actually buy stuff (ideally for real money). I'm sure CIG are busy on monetising it as fast as they can. Can't wait to go space shopping for space hats and space shoes.
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This talk of a FPS engine game having 1:1 planets sounds like playground talk! SC doesn't dynamically generate maps (yet) so you're talking about storing an entire planets worth of data on a consumer hard disk? Also a couple of hundred developers aren't going to be able to map one planet in a few years. Silly. Until the do some kind of procedural mapping it won't happen.
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Indeed, but they have some guys in frankfurt developing some kind of procedural generation tech for the long term, how they will use it we can only guess... Searching the lore there are some Water/Desert planets with just a couple of landing options so they might use them there. The citys will use modularity to allow them to build them like legos.
I really don't know why you think it's not feasible with cryengine, seeing as it is in fact perfectly feasible on cryengine (go look up the segmented worlds feature of cryengine). And saying that the engine is designed for small-scale FPS style maps, is a bit silly when people have actually been making large MMO style maps with it (Aion, ArcheAge, Asta). The maximum map size without segmented worlds is 256x256 km if I remember correctly (although it not really usable).
Not only could you do that, but you can also do it seamlessly without loading screens, which coincidentally is exactly what SC is doing.
I never said that there wouldn't be potential issues with making an infinite maps (or a 1:1 scale galaxy) within cryengine, merely that it is technically possible (unlike what Mu77ley claimed), either way I'm not really sure how you can claim so authoritatively exactly what the strengths and weaknesses of the segmented worlds feature is, since as you said you don't have access to it yet (segmented worlds isn't in 3.8.3 because it isn't part of the EaaS version, it is only available to licensees like CIG). Either way, yes I would imagine that the segmented worlds feature would have potential issues with segment transitions, but that's probably the entire reason behind CIG moving to DP, so that they could make the segments large enough that transitions will be sufficiently rare. Whether or not you need segmented worlds or not with DP is debatable, CIG is allegedly doing 1:100 scale and if we count the solar system as having a radius of 100 AU (rough end of heliosphere, and the aphelion of Eris), then CIG would need a map size with a radius of 1 AU and a diameter of 2 AU, 100 million km is only 0.67 AU, or about a third of that (8.8 billion kilometers would be almost 60 AU and as such more than enough), so they would need 3x3 segments to cover the solar system (I doubt anyone would want to fly particularly far out of plane, so one segment along the z axis should be fine).
Also layer streaming is not really the same as segmented worlds, as layer streaming is really meant to do more within one map, not seamlessly transition between maps like what segmented worlds would allegedly allow. And as you said it's not particularly easy to work with since you have to more or less manually define your layers in an optimal manner. And yes I think 8192x8192 is the practical limit with MPU set to 2, although you can in theory set MPU as high as 64 (if I remember correctly), giving you a map size of 262km x 262km, although it's not necessarily the most stable thing in the world.
And SC most certainly does simulate the proportions of the planets, or at least some of them (the gas giant in the multi-crew demo was some 180,000 km, if I remember correctly).
You also have a "loading screen" when you drop out of super cruise and when you do an interdiction. Basically Elite has plenty of "hidden" loading screens.
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