Yes, crApple did manage to steal that from Xerox first. Go "innovation".
And Xeros stole the GUI from... oh man that's too long ago for me to remember.
General / Off-Topic I REFUSE to Buy Microsoft, BUT I will buy anything you make for Mac or expecially PS4
- Thread starter Kraythen
- Start date
And Xeros stole the GUI from... oh man that's too long ago for me to remember.
If the OP want's to live a Mac only or a Linux only life, fine but don't expect to everyone to support your chosen platform.
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I run a Windows phone. I happen to like the interface and they're cheap. Part of the trade off is that a lot of apps aren't available for WP. If I wanted lots of apps, I'd run an iPhone or android. Of course the big advantage of WP is nobody writes malware for it as the market share it titchy!
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The bottom lime is, if you chose to follow a weird PaleoVegan diet, don't whine that eating out is difficult.
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I run a Windows phone. I happen to like the interface and they're cheap. Part of the trade off is that a lot of apps aren't available for WP. If I wanted lots of apps, I'd run an iPhone or android. Of course the big advantage of WP is nobody writes malware for it as the market share it titchy!
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The bottom lime is, if you chose to follow a weird PaleoVegan diet, don't whine that eating out is difficult.
To start with, I never said anything about personal data, so I'm not sure why you're bringing this up, the same applies to Google and Android; it's not relevant to the discussion at all.
That said, I will respond to it.
I don't use standard Android on my phone - I've rooted it with a custom ROM that has the majority of Google apps stripped out of it (not for data/personal information protection reasons, but because I don't use them and it just bloats my phone). However, considering that Android is not only free, but open source, anybody with some programming knowledge can go through the source code and see if Google is sending dodgy data - which people would have shouted loudly about. So we know that the OS is, at least, safe(ish); but the apps? I agree, we have no idea where our data lands up, but then neither do the people with Apple products, or Windows products. So the point is moot.
Incidentally, for the financial year of 2014, Google's advertising revenue was $59bn (before operating costs) so no, they didn't release Android to make up some money; they released it to establish a foothold in the phone industry to make LOTS more money. Any Android user who thinks Google developed Android with love and affection and because they're swell guys, is deluding themselves. However, Google is at least open and honest about this, how so? Because a number of years ago, Google's CEO Larry Page stated:
Android is a) free, b) open source, c) well managed and d) an extremely high usage product. End result? Big bucks for Google. I'm fine with that, free stuff for me and their data collection doesn't hurt me anyway - really, how can they hurt me by knowing that I like to search for [redacted for sensitive viewers]?
By making it free, and by making it open source, they've managed to establish a network effect that keeps people using it. In fact, it's so successful, that as of Q2 for 2015, they cover 82.8% of the mobile phone market, followed closely (and I use the word loosely) by iOS's 13.9%.
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We're looking at it differently; when I look at a computer I look at everything, from the pretty packaging, the hardware inside it to the price; and there's the most important thin: the price.
The parts inside HAVE TO justify the price; when you charge a lot of money for something, the expectation is of high quality, top of the range parts. Apple does NOT do this. Apple charges PREMIUM prices for pretty box and one or two really nice things.
Let's break it down and maybe I can get you to understand where I'm coming from when I say "sub-par."
We'll work on the new 5K Mac:
RRP $2299.
Specs:
- 3.5Ghz (qc) i5
- 8GB 1600MHz DDR3 (upgradable to 16 or 32 (notice the limitation?))
- 1TB Fusion Drive or a 1TB SSD
- AMD Radeon R9 M290X (2gb)
- Speaker, Camera, Keyboard, Mouse
- Wifi, Bluetooth, 25.6" screen
I'm going to use pre-built PC's since it's on par with how Apple does it and I'm going to use Alienware:
RRP $2,489.98
Specs:
- Intel® Core™ i7-5820K Processor (6-cores, 15MB Cache, Overclocked up to 3.8 GHz w/ Turbo Boost)
- Dell UltraSharp 24 Monitor - U2412M
- Nvidia Geforce GTX 960 2GB
- 8GB Dual Channel DDR4 at 2133MHz
- 256GB SSD 6Gb/s Main + 4TB 5400RPM SATA 6Gb/s Storage
- Slot-Loading Dual Layer DVD Burner (DVD±RW, CD-RW)
- Intel 7260 802.11ac 2x2 Wireless, WiFi and Bluetooth 4.0
- Alienware™ 850 Watt Multi-GPU Approved Power Supply
- Alienware Multi-Media Keyboard
- No speakers/camera
Mac Pros:
- 1TB SSD (not sure on the price increase here as this is an optional upgrade),
- Gorgeous 5k display
- Price,
- Lower spec parts,
- Limited upgrades,
- Mobile mid-range graphics card,
- Only one OS,
- No DVD drive (additional purchase: $79)
- Display is both con and pro; gorgeous to look at and use, ultimately pointless in gaming however as the GPU is way out of it's weight class here; you couldn't get LOW details for Elite on 5k.
Overall: The 5k makes the price look good; but the hardware is still too poor (sub-par) to justify it and when it comes to gaming (considering the forum we're on), the Mac simply won't deliver at it's displays max resolution and you're ultimately back down to 1080p anyway.
PC Pros:
- More HDD space,
- Better CPU,
- Better RAM,
- Better graphics card ( http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-R9-M290X-vs-GeForce-GTX-960 ),
- Unlimited upgrades,
- Easier to fix and maintain parts,
- Any OS
- Higher end specs start getting more expensive
- Lower display quality, but more than sufficient for gaming purposes.
- SSD's are very expensive unfortunately.
If you compare what I've listed above, you can hopefully see what I mean by "sub-par" hardware. For about a few hundred Dollars more, you can get a machine that will happily lug the majority of games at high-ultra, perhaps even high on a 4K resolution. Whereas the Mac can't use it's 5k display at anything above 1080p (I would be surprised if it could do 4k at all), so at 1080p .. you could probably get med-high (any 5k Mac users with the above specs are welcome to correct me of course).
When I say "sub-par" I'm saying: The hardware provided is below what is expected to be in a machine of that price range.
See above. Also, as I already said, this information is easily accessible if you search for it. Closing your eyes to the obvious doesn't make it go away. I'm not saying Apple is sub-par, I'm saying the hardware they use is far too low to justify the price.
So? I don't see the relevance; nobody is disputing what Apple may or may not have given to the computer industry. Today, they make great designer products with poor hardware at inflated, ridiculous prices.
Again, irrelevant to the discussion. The discussion is over sub-par hardware, not how crappy MS is or is not, or what Apple brought to the table, or didn't. To answer the bolded question though: the iPad is a direct result of MS's Tablet PC which came out in 2002; however the technology wasn't up to scratch and they were heavy and bulky and ugly and MS was plagued with internal struggles, such as the boss of Microsoft Office deliberately sabotaging Office to not work on the Tablet PC. Smartphones; the direct descendants of Microsoft's PDA: the Pocket PC platform (2000's), Smart Watches, Smart TV's, eBook Readers, online console gaming, Zune; the precursor to Spotify and iTunes and finally, the wheel'd mouse. Whilst MS might not have capitalized on many of these, their innovations directly led to the invention of many of the things we enjoy today.
I hate the meadow; and all OS sound (for me) is always turned off 5min after finishing an OS install. Oh, and again, irrelevant.
With respect, I'm not the one who is blinded here.
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He sold some shares in apple to get a tour of PARC. Was there any kind of NDA? I don't know, maybe, maybe not - they were different times. But he did not pay for any kind of rights to what he saw there - he just took the ideas. Let's face it, why was he so desperate to get in there in the first place? It wasn't for idle curiosity. He did what he always did - took some disparate, unfulfilled ideas and turned them into a product that dribbling crApple sycophants needed, lest they die of crApple deprivation. I guess he didn't steal from his partner either, seeing as he claims it was for reinvestment in the firm, even though, apparently, his partner could not be trusted to make that decision for himself. He was a nasty, nasty man and the main reason I have never, nor ever will, buy an apple product or service. That and, as pointed out, their hardware is behind the curve and way overpriced for what they are. Still, lifestyle and "look at me" people love them so I guess as long as we have people who wear sunglasses at night, apple will be there to sell them some image.
Yes, crApple did manage to steal that from Xerox first. Go "innovation".
Finally there is that Microsoft who has never stolen anything
Finally there is that Microsoft who has never stolen anything
Mine is a partly emotional, rather than logical, response I admit. I hated Jobs, I did not hate Gates. *shrug*
With the way M$ have been messing around with its customers, endless, unstable updates, unreliable OSs and so on. Apple seem to have become the machine of choice for those that simply want what their computer to do what it is designed for.
The PC is essentially aimed at those who don't mind fiddling, tinkering, turning things on and off.
I have never liked Apple, personally, for a number of reasons. But now, if I were to buy a computer for a child or any adult who doesn't care what a HD is or thinks the words Graphics Card means, Too Complicated, I'd buy Apple. I have even considered one for my next computer.
Sadly, the endless greed and utter incompetence of M$ has overshadowed the slick sales and general delusion of Apple.
How art the mighty fallen?
The PC is essentially aimed at those who don't mind fiddling, tinkering, turning things on and off.
I have never liked Apple, personally, for a number of reasons. But now, if I were to buy a computer for a child or any adult who doesn't care what a HD is or thinks the words Graphics Card means, Too Complicated, I'd buy Apple. I have even considered one for my next computer.
Sadly, the endless greed and utter incompetence of M$ has overshadowed the slick sales and general delusion of Apple.
How art the mighty fallen?
Mine is a partly emotional, rather than logical, response I admit. I hated Jobs, I did not hate Gates. *shrug*
However it is public knowledge that Jobs was a tyrant
Endless greed also applies to apple, probably more so.
We're looking at it differently; when I look at a computer I look at everything, from the pretty packaging, the hardware inside it to the price; and there's the most important thin: the price.
The parts inside HAVE TO justify the price; when you charge a lot of money for something, the expectation is of high quality, top of the range parts. Apple does NOT do this. Apple charges PREMIUM prices for pretty box and one or two really nice things.
Let's break it down and maybe I can get you to understand where I'm coming from when I say "sub-par."
We'll work on the new 5K Mac:
RRP $2299.
Specs:
- 3.5Ghz (qc) i5
- 8GB 1600MHz DDR3 (upgradable to 16 or 32 (notice the limitation?))
- 1TB Fusion Drive or a 1TB SSD
- AMD Radeon R9 M290X (2gb)
- Speaker, Camera, Keyboard, Mouse
- Wifi, Bluetooth, 25.6" screen
I'm going to use pre-built PC's since it's on par with how Apple does it and I'm going to use Alienware:
RRP $2,489.98
Specs:
- Intel® Core™ i7-5820K Processor (6-cores, 15MB Cache, Overclocked up to 3.8 GHz w/ Turbo Boost)
- Dell UltraSharp 24 Monitor - U2412M
- Nvidia Geforce GTX 960 2GB
- 8GB Dual Channel DDR4 at 2133MHz
- 256GB SSD 6Gb/s Main + 4TB 5400RPM SATA 6Gb/s Storage
- Slot-Loading Dual Layer DVD Burner (DVD±RW, CD-RW)
- Intel 7260 802.11ac 2x2 Wireless, WiFi and Bluetooth 4.0
- Alienware™ 850 Watt Multi-GPU Approved Power Supply
- Alienware Multi-Media Keyboard
- No speakers/camera
Indeed, I quoted straight off of Alienware's website so it'll definitely be expensive (it's Dell after all - plus the price comes with the construction of the rig as well as the case and what not) - I was just trying to emphasize my point that for a little more, or greatly less (in your case) you can get a much better machine than what Apple has on offer.
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Mine is a partly emotional, rather than logical, response I admit. I hated Jobs, I did not hate Gates. *shrug*
There must have been some point when my opinion of Jobs and Gates were on par. Decades ago I thought of Gates as the son of a lawyer who looked at software and thought of all the money he could make from it. Microsoft were a big evil empire who Embraced Enhanced and Extinguished everything that got in its way. Jobs and Wozniak were a mom and pop business that started out of a garage. Their Apple 2s were crafted out of wood and... "love"
It could have been a step change. My opinion of Jobs took quite a stumble when I heard one of the first things he did when he got back into the driving seat of Apple was to cancel all their charitable work. Gates does understand the importance of money. When he dies the obituary stories are going to centre on all of the great things he is currently doing with his money. I still don't know how to take him. I feel he is somewhat of a Robin Hood figure, but he is stealing from the poor (me), to give to the much much poorer.
I think you misunderstood what I meant by design, I meant interface design, not orientated towards design programs. The UI looks good, but a lot of things aren't where they in my opinion should be for easy and convenient access, nothing to do with what the mac was used for.
And yeah, you've been running it without all that, here's the thing, there are botnets that take advantage of Mac's you could very well be on one without knowing
those virus' are pretty smart now a days, heck you could also just be a relay without knowing. Having to use anti virus/adware/spyware programs is not a crime, thinking you are safe without it seems a bit naive, though yes, also depends on your internet habits, since yes there are less for mac, but that doesn't mean there always will be, just saying.Hmm, dunno. Jobs was a nasty piece of work right from the beginning and all the way through - no remorse or regret. There are so many verified examples of this out there.
There are a lot of stories about Gates being a bit of a too, of course. But as you say, at least he's spending most of the money he screwed from the rich and poor alike to help the even less well off.
Completely agree, which is why I have never used Apple in the past.
But the experiences of Vista, W7, W8, not to mention the endless updates, many of which are of little use to most users has made me wonder if it's time to back a different devil.
W10 may have its good points, provided you don't mind the endless advertising not to mention the hap hazard way it works.
It's all well and good to say to the likes of you or I, turn this off or that on, enter this code or download this utility. But for who think a CPU is something rude or Quad core a new brand of fizzy drink, it just isn't good enough.
Apple, for all its faults, is essentially done and dusted. You get the machine, switch it on and click on what you want.
I wonder how much costs an iPhone at the exit of the production line (with research and développemnt included)
Sole Hunter
Banned
It's very very cheap believe me, there was some documentaries not too long ago on apple cheap work labor factories and it really doesn't take that long to make an iphone.
You are paying for the brand, same concept applies in most marketing strategies whether you buy a pair of shoes, pants or a baseball cap.
Go watch Jobs (2013) movie done on Steve Jobs the main actor is Ashton Kutcher and he says multiple time during the movie ; people are looking for a good looking brand to identify themselves and Steve Jobs used to do the same thing back after he dropped from college when he started making technology conference in the 90's.
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Don't know about RnD but: According to a teardown report from research firm IHS, the components and manufacturing cost of a 16GB iPhone 6 cost Apple $200.10. It retails for $649 in the U.S. without a contract with a wireless carrier. That's like a 69% profit margin, per item.
Bonus fact: Apple sold 75 million iPhone 6 and 6 Plus units in the fourth quarter of 2014.
But yeah, iFan's aren't being ripped off at all. ;-)
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