Sorry if its confusing, I thought it was pretty straight forward. What I'm getting at though is it takes care of two issues. It provides protection for traders, and encourages them to trade in open mode, and It adds another thing for players to do and to make credits. Think of this too: a massive trader caravan of like 10 traders, with all their guards, flying through an area of anarchy space. Suddenly a fleet of player pirates drops out of FDS and interdicts them! It erupts into a massive battle between the two sides. That would be epic! Plus with the contracts it gives the guards a reason to stay and fight, rather than just cut and run. If they leave, the trader dies, they don't get paid, and they receive a negative rating.
Piracy/interdiction changes to keep Traders in the game
- Thread starter NeilF
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As for encouraging traders to go Open instead of Solo, I have a proposal which completely avoids any kind of ''sale tax'' or ''reward for being in open'' or anything like that. it is really simple.
What kind of trading should earn you the most credits? Trading Grain? Trading stuff between the large core worlds, brimming with huge merchant haulers cutting the price differences down?
No, the greatest profits should come from the outworlds, the anarchies, or the pirate-infested feudals and dictatorships. The reason the profits are greater here? Lack of ability to move trade goods in a large volume, because the pirates should be
deadly. Not ''has Python and forces you to run''-deadly, but seriously, seriously deadly. The kind of deadly that really does kill you if you go there with something not fitted for combat... or friends.
Make other people into a resource, not just an irritation. Give people reason to hang together and help eachother. That will make more people play in open. Not some kind of extra tax on solo players.
What kind of trading should earn you the most credits? Trading Grain? Trading stuff between the large core worlds, brimming with huge merchant haulers cutting the price differences down?
No, the greatest profits should come from the outworlds, the anarchies, or the pirate-infested feudals and dictatorships. The reason the profits are greater here? Lack of ability to move trade goods in a large volume, because the pirates should be
deadly. Not ''has Python and forces you to run''-deadly, but seriously, seriously deadly. The kind of deadly that really does kill you if you go there with something not fitted for combat... or friends.
Make other people into a resource, not just an irritation. Give people reason to hang together and help eachother. That will make more people play in open. Not some kind of extra tax on solo players.
IAWTC +1
I do like this idea.
Systems that are deadly dangerous. You go there with your friends to trade, alone would be a suicide, you fight your way trough and make high profits. It could be deadly also for one combat ship or two, you need your friends or it is no go. More like instances for the wings?
We could decrease the standard income from trade, and move these ridiculously high profits that we now get -> To this coop content.
This wont fix open, because people can do this in private groups.
...
There are lot of people who want to get more challenging traders to pirate from, so they would like them to be humans. So what if you guys start running that hauler in player filled area and fight off the attacking players? You would practically just give your cargo for them, but this is what you want right? Oh, right, you actually wanted that someone else is the trader and you are the pirate getting the cargo.
But I agree still that the PvP content is not the best at the moment, actually rather bad... I would try to find solutions outside of this "open vs solo" box.
I posted this in another thread, but felt it might be useful as a conversation piece in its own suggestion thread? So here's a set of changes to try and tighten up the piracy/trader interdiction mechanic.
Five things need to happen IMHO:-
Traders are penalised if they keep dodgingThe game knows if you are being interdicted, so if (as a trader) you keep dodging (your process just happens to end during an interdiction), after a couple of times, you are penalised in some fashion. At the moment it's all too easy to terminate your process to dodge any interdiction.
Pirates are heavily penalised for murderIf traders knew they are not likely to be killed, they'd be much more willing to "play ball" (& not end up playing solo through constant fear of destruction).
eg: Bounties that cannot be simply paid off, but which are retained for say X gameplay hours (not real hours) before they can be?
I'm especially interested if anyone can see an issue with this one as it is quite a big change to the current kill and easily get away with it mechanic!
NPC pirates do not murder if you play ballLikewise if you hand over some cargo, NPC pirates will generally also let you go. Maybe NPCs could demand (over comms) a value of cargo (eg: 10,000CR) based on your actual cargo. As long as you jettison this, they will typically let you go.
Dedicated jettison hot keyAllow a key to jettison one ton of your most expensive cargo (ignoring rares, unless there is nothing but rares).
This would allow you to quickly and easily "pay".
Make scooping easierPicking up even half a dozen bits of cargo can get frustrating! Its painful for pirates (and miners) so make it less painful. eg: Add a small magnetic effect to the scoop.
Note1: Maybe also add other mechanics such as when a "Pirate" kills a player (trader), immediately broadcast it over the coms channel in the system (as some sort of distress signal), so any local bounty hunters could start looking in that system - Maybe specify a rough location or put up a temporary location to navigate to? So if a pirate kills someone, bounty hunters nearby (in the system) can come to investigate?
Note2: Maybe introduce a small "sales tax" on trading in "Group" or "Solo" to make "Public" more appealing to traders.
Face it, you'll never be able to penalize pirates enough to discourage piracy. They will shoot traders. Whenever I get a large enough ship, I will do the same for pure fun.
It really surprises me how many complaints there are about PVP. I'm in profitable systems, just further out and haven't seen another player in weeks. It's a big sandbox, make use of the size.
Suggestions:
They could really stand to follow the way of eve, in that higher security space has less profitability in trading with more police around. Police that will interdict pirates.
They would also make it more profitable for traders to make longer distance trades through anarchy systems.
Create modules to allow warp in points to locations other than the stars.
Spitballing a couple of related ideas...
1) If you combat log, the game will not let you play for a period in time (eg: 1hr). By combat log I mean, while being interdicted (by a CMDR?), or while within an interdiction (by a CMDR?), for some strange reason your process crashes
This could even be a progressive penalty. eg: Keep doing it over intervals, the time increases!
2) If you kill another CMDR (in OPEN) and gain a bounty for it, you can only play in OPEN over the course of set period (eg: 24 hours).
Personally I see too many issues (especially with no.2), but it's an interesting premise don't you think? ie: Trying to prevent individuals who have committed murder disappearing so easily And preventing people combat logging.
1) If you combat log, the game will not let you play for a period in time (eg: 1hr). By combat log I mean, while being interdicted (by a CMDR?), or while within an interdiction (by a CMDR?), for some strange reason your process crashes
This could even be a progressive penalty. eg: Keep doing it over intervals, the time increases!2) If you kill another CMDR (in OPEN) and gain a bounty for it, you can only play in OPEN over the course of set period (eg: 24 hours).
Personally I see too many issues (especially with no.2), but it's an interesting premise don't you think? ie: Trying to prevent individuals who have committed murder disappearing so easily
And preventing people combat logging.
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So I only just read this OP today, but I do like the idea! I love them (all but 6, as it's been fixed )!
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On point, NeilF! Great suggestion!
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Spitballing a couple of related ideas...
1) If you combat log, the game will not let you play for a period in time (eg: 1hr). By combat log I mean, while being interdicted (by a CMDR?), or while within an interdiction (by a CMDR?), for some strange reason your process crashes
2) If you kill another CMDR (in OPEN) and gain a bounty for it, you can only play in OPEN over the course of set period (eg: 24 hours).
Personally I see too many issues (especially with no.2), but it's an interesting premise don't you think? ie: Trying to prevent individuals who have committed murder disappearing so easily
On point, NeilF! Great suggestion!
From another thread and repeated here thanks to Neils invite:
CMDR CZ Zones. Entering it explicitly accepts pvp. Then we can make choices. I think that may be the point of the current 1.4 beta. PVP can then be controlled with no charges of murder. Its war capt.
Piracy, losing the interdiction battle automatically removes cargo from the interdictee to fill the interdictors cargo slots. Both can then be on their way, one happy the other grumbling but with ship intact. Pirate remains in SC and legs it. Trader is dropped from SC into normal space. Submitting to interdiction accepts loss of cargo and drops into normal space with no damage and just has to wait until fsd cools. Resisting and losing loses cargo and some small damage to ship. Pirate does a runner giggling. Resisting and winning interdiction drops pirate into normal space with small amount of damage. Trader remains in SC chortling.
Murders, if you murder a CMDR in Empire/Federation/Alliance space you cannot dock in the space the offence took place. NPC's will shoot on sight and docking attempts enforced vigorously. They will then be confined to anarchies etc i.e. on the fringes of society where they belong. Their bounties and locations will be broadcast and all recent contacts with npc's, cmdrs etc updated for bounty hunters. Only when your bounty has been claimed will they then have their crimes extinguished and be considered 'rehabilitated' and free to enter normal space once more. No kill warrant scan required. Give bounty hunters a good hunt.
Everyone knows CZ. No explanation required.
Piracy. Now I am happy to be pirated and my cargo pinched in good spirits. The fight takes place during the initial interdiction.
As a trader, if i lose, i lose some of my cargo (fills hold of pirate) and drop into normal space with minor ships damage and extended fsd cool down period. Damage TBA. If I win, the pirate drops into normal space with minor damage and extended fsd cool down period. Loser drops into normal space, winner remains in SC. The battle is then all about the interdiction. There is no need for comms or murder, fleeing etc. If I submit to interdiction, pirate still fills their hold and I still drop into normal space but with no damage and normal fsd cool down.
Net results is either gets their way, no pew pew required and piracy becomes normalised without resorting to murder. Basically youve been mugged but you still have your ship and the pirate doesnt need to kill you.
Piracy is treated as a lesser crime, you still get 'wanted' but you can still sneak into the same systems stations to sell your bootie. Murder allows no sneaking into stations at all. Basically if you murder and try to enter a station, you're toast. Unless its in an Anarchy system or a system not alligned to the system you murdered in. Ie if you murder in Empire space, then any empire systems station is out of bounds to you. You can still go to Fed or Alliance etc. Unless youre wanted there too and thus its Anarchy for you matey.
CMDR CZ Zones. Entering it explicitly accepts pvp. Then we can make choices. I think that may be the point of the current 1.4 beta. PVP can then be controlled with no charges of murder. Its war capt.
Piracy, losing the interdiction battle automatically removes cargo from the interdictee to fill the interdictors cargo slots. Both can then be on their way, one happy the other grumbling but with ship intact. Pirate remains in SC and legs it. Trader is dropped from SC into normal space. Submitting to interdiction accepts loss of cargo and drops into normal space with no damage and just has to wait until fsd cools. Resisting and losing loses cargo and some small damage to ship. Pirate does a runner giggling. Resisting and winning interdiction drops pirate into normal space with small amount of damage. Trader remains in SC chortling.
Murders, if you murder a CMDR in Empire/Federation/Alliance space you cannot dock in the space the offence took place. NPC's will shoot on sight and docking attempts enforced vigorously. They will then be confined to anarchies etc i.e. on the fringes of society where they belong. Their bounties and locations will be broadcast and all recent contacts with npc's, cmdrs etc updated for bounty hunters. Only when your bounty has been claimed will they then have their crimes extinguished and be considered 'rehabilitated' and free to enter normal space once more. No kill warrant scan required. Give bounty hunters a good hunt.
Everyone knows CZ. No explanation required.
Piracy. Now I am happy to be pirated and my cargo pinched in good spirits. The fight takes place during the initial interdiction.
As a trader, if i lose, i lose some of my cargo (fills hold of pirate) and drop into normal space with minor ships damage and extended fsd cool down period. Damage TBA. If I win, the pirate drops into normal space with minor damage and extended fsd cool down period. Loser drops into normal space, winner remains in SC. The battle is then all about the interdiction. There is no need for comms or murder, fleeing etc. If I submit to interdiction, pirate still fills their hold and I still drop into normal space but with no damage and normal fsd cool down.
Net results is either gets their way, no pew pew required and piracy becomes normalised without resorting to murder. Basically youve been mugged but you still have your ship and the pirate doesnt need to kill you.
Piracy is treated as a lesser crime, you still get 'wanted' but you can still sneak into the same systems stations to sell your bootie. Murder allows no sneaking into stations at all. Basically if you murder and try to enter a station, you're toast. Unless its in an Anarchy system or a system not alligned to the system you murdered in. Ie if you murder in Empire space, then any empire systems station is out of bounds to you. You can still go to Fed or Alliance etc. Unless youre wanted there too and thus its Anarchy for you matey.
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I like the idea that the person being interdicted can submit and pay off the pirate...
What I'm not sure about is that there is no path that leads to pew pew? That seems wrong to me? Surely if the victim does not submit to the interdiction, and loses, they could instead end up in the same position as the current mechanic? ie: Risk fighting it out?
I think what is also needed is maybe a better means for the victim to then hand over cargo? Maybe as suggestion in the OP?
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Yes, but the victim may suggest that if they lose the interdiction, they shouldn't (automatically) lose any cargo? What if the pirate is in a Sidewinder and the victim in an Anaconda? Should they be handing cargo over automatically? I think the CMDR in the Anaconda might fancy his chances of fighting the pirate off
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Why would an Anaconda worry about losing 16t of cargo? Theyve just been pick pocketed. Why does the defence of your cargo necessarily require guns? If we can make piracy require no gun fights, we can avoid needless killing of traders. But then maybe we'll see pirates running T9's and stealing everything, but theyd be hard to use to interdict more manoeuvrable ships. The little manoeuvrable ships would be better. Skill in fighting and interdicting would be required. Besides there are some skilled pilots who can take down an anaconda in a sidey. Its not guaranteed. Myself I'd be grinning if a little sidey pirate pinched some of my stuff. The cheek of it would amuse me greatly.
So we could have a Wing of four Elite CMRDs in Anacondas flying along, all carrying the most expensive cargo you can get. A player in basic sidewinder interdicts them and wins the interdiction. So just because he wins the interdiction he then gets loot?
And if he then does it again... and again and again? You don't see a problem there?
The proposal seems to offer no way for the person who loses the interdiction to say, "No! You don't scare me... Go away!"
I'm all up for a way to easily pay off a pirate during the interdiction. I also think a means of doing it easily post interdiction would be useful (see OP). But I think to try and automate it fully would frustrate folks.
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I think something along those lines might be the answer... So the pirate needs to physically take his payment. I think it's fair that if he gets the victims shields down, he should then be able to get at teh cargo fairly easily, and get away... I think also, should this happen (say with your drones/limpets), considerable damage should be done to the victims ship too. They put up a fight, lost, so should pay for it
I'm beginning to feel a bit happier with these proposed sets of mechanics and how they plumb togethor!
He is in a sidey with what 16t cargo bay? (cant remember), he will only be able to do it once. By the time he's been and cashed in his bootie the wing of condas would be long gone so he couldn't do it again and again and again. Its a one off bit of thievery. He would have to empty his cargo before he could do it again.
I really think that the hatch breaker limpet should reduce the cargo hatch health to 0% and make all the cargo rapidly spill out. I'd also be fine fine with an emp-limpet/missile that temporarily reduced reactor health of unshielded to 0% for 30 seconds or so (obviously with 1.4 changes where 0% reactor health doesn't kill you!).
Anything that encourages real-piracy would be great. Things like these would also make it much more viable to pirate NPCs.
Anything that encourages real-piracy would be great. Things like these would also make it much more viable to pirate NPCs.
Extrapolate then please...
A pirate CMDR in a single Anaconda then, taking on four Elite CMDRs in Anacondas... Why would the four CMDRs feel like giving up any cargo? They've put the effort in to fly togethor in safety for that reason. And you're suggesting someone should be able to steal from them just by winning an interdiction mini-game?
I don't think people will like that aspect of it...
Seems harsh?
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