Stolen goods, or legit spoils?

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Hi, I was reading in theDDF archive that if I am a pirate and force you to dump your load or I find a destroyed ship with said cargo floating around, any cargo is flagged stollen goods.

Is this the same for if a pirate attacks me, but if I beat them they drop stuff?

I can see some logic behind increasing my bounty for picking up stolen goods that I steal, but on the other hand I would suggest taking from a pirate who attacked me seems fair gane .

Also, perhaps rules such as the road kill rules we have in the UK. If I run over a goose even if it is dead I am not allowed to take it (its poaching) but anyone else can.

Leaving goods floating in space seems silly, even if only to pick up and leave at a station for a percentage of its value as a finders fee makes more sense IMO, also what if there are animals or slaves in them. Are we to let them die.

Thanks for any thoughts.

 

[Stachel]

even if only to pick up and leave at a station for a percentage of its value as a finders fee

This is an excellent suggestion. Here's why: it creates the potential for encounters and emergence. That is the lynch pin of sandbox. A player might encounter another player, the cargo might be bait for a trap, it might be 'archaeology' from a fight long concluded. It might be illegally dumped waste. It might lead to a story arc, mission hook, reward/finders fee, the collection of a bounty, the hunt for a rightful owner etc. It might be as simple as forming a relationship with the individual or organization that the goods belong to. Or it might be legitimate salvage after an insurance bond has been paid to the original owner and by merely being there to be collected it promotes a player activity that is in itself emergent etc etc. By creating an incentive (a potential reward) for further action you enrich the sandbox in any number of ways.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Indeed some good ideas, that could really be built on. I just feel leaving goods to go to waste makes no sense..... but I shall be doing my best to stay legal in the game.

 

[insanephoton]

The situation as I understand it in the Alpha2 Ethics and Credits scenario, you can pick up cargo from wrecked ships and won't get a bounty for it (you'll even get paid for bringing it to an Anaconda). However, if another player is equipped with a cargo scanner and they scan you while you are carrying this salvage, it is flagged as 'stolen' and they can attack you without getting a bounty against them

 

[Blethigg]

The situation as I understand it in the Alpha2 Ethics and Credits scenario, you can pick up cargo from wrecked ships and won't get a bounty for it (you'll even get paid for bringing it to an Anaconda). However, if another player is equipped with a cargo scanner and they scan you while you are carrying this salvage, it is flagged as 'stolen' and they can attack you without getting a bounty against them

That sounds like a bug, unless I've misunderstood you.

 

[DarthVain]

Came across this yesterday. I found canisters picked them up got scanned and now A bounty on me because I have stolen goods. Go figure.:S

 

[jabokai]

A simple measure to immediately tag picked up goods as "recovered for finder's fee" would work. One tagged you cannot sell them on the black market and you cannot change the tag, you can only turn them in for a reward. Bit gamey perhaps but otherwise there would be a few exploits (tag as found to avoid the feds and then delete the tag to sell them on the black market, etc).

I don't think they should become legitimate just from passing through several people's hands (or holds) - stolen goods are always stolen goods.

 

[CmdrBond]

I think canisters floating in space should have a timer on them - once this timer runs out they will no longer flag as stolen.

 

[Adept]

A simple measure to immediately tag picked up goods as "recovered for finder's fee" would work. One tagged you cannot sell them on the black market and you cannot change the tag, you can only turn them in for a reward. Bit gamey perhaps but otherwise there would be a few exploits (tag as found to avoid the feds and then delete the tag to sell them on the black market, etc).

I don't think they should become legitimate just from passing through several people's hands (or holds) - stolen goods are always stolen goods.

Good idea the finders fee. 10% of legit price maybe.

 

[Teefur]

Good idea the finders fee. 10% of legit price maybe.

10% might make most goods seem not worth handing over to the relevant authorities, probably make more on the black market, but if it also improves your rep with that faction it might be worth it.

 

[Adept]

10% might make most goods seem not worth handing over to the relevant authorities, probably make more on the black market, but if it also improves your rep with that faction it might be worth it.

Of course it has to be significantly more lucrative to sell to the black market than being a legit boy/girl scout.

 

[Kolourblynd]

Me thinks

I think that the idea in later builds is to make certain goods "stolen" if they are not meant for that player to pick up, ie a Hauler CMDR gets a mission to retrieve said cargo, but a pirate player in the area picks it up before they make it.

Of course any cargo taken from another ship, NPC or Player, would count as stolen, but I feel as if the system will set "abandoned" cargo as free to pick up, once an unfortunate CMDR crashes into something and "surrenders" the cargo to the void of space. But I wouldn't know if that was how the original games worked, as I was too young to have the privilege of such a game during my time, so it could be that any cargo left in space will end up being flagged as stolen if you grab it for yourself. Or maybe you can potentially hail the Federation to verify it's contents and origin and permit you to carry it to a station after a short period of verification time.

Personally I hate how I can go hunt a bounty on a NPC, find some cargo fly from his debris, pick it up and find myself suddenly under attack by any Federation ships in the area; I'd really appreciate a "stowed" section of my ship to hide some of these things in my Cobra instead of submitting to instant bounties.

 

[kanthoney]

That's one of the two things that are annoying me about the current implementation of cargo - if I pick any up I'm stealing it, even if I'm happy returning it to the nearest station for return to the original owner.

The other thing is that the game tells you what's in it, thus removing all the mystery. It'd be OK if you could buy a high-end cargo scanner that did that, but I think that by default you shouldn't know what's in it. Although you should be able to tell if it's radioactive!

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

10% might make most goods seem not worth handing over to the relevant authorities, probably make more on the black market, but if it also improves your rep with that faction it might be worth it.

This is true if you have no qualms of risking becoming wanted, however for those of us who are planning on trying to stay on the right side of the law it gives us at least a little something for picking up floating cans, and it also has a solid logical reason for doing it - returning to a station for recovery to the rightful owner.

Also it makes sense for the reasons stated in my 1st post, surely no person in good conscience could leave slaves or animals to die in space. I am no slaver but better to pick up and recover than to let die.

I like the idea of picking them up and freeing as well, there could be a very small chance of missions like, it turning out that one of them is a wealthy person who was kidnapped and he offers to pay you to go and kill his captors

OR

he could turn out to be an A rated turret gunner/engineer/ what ever so he could offer to join your crew for base rates, thus giving marginal improvements to your ship (if multi crew) on the condition that you go and try to rescue the rest of his family

(or he could turn out to be a member of the pirates ship who you just shot down, he hid in a cargo can and he could plant a tracker on your ship, thus meaning you get ambushed by some blood thirsty scum)
etc etc

 

[Mad Doctor X]

This could fit in with cargo insurance if it's implemented. I have picked up some of my own cargo after I crashed and it appeared in the commodities market rather than the black market, so the canisters must be flagged in some way. Rather than selling to the black market you could sell to cargo recovery for a nominal fee.

A simple, but perhaps not that satisfactory, way of dealing with getting a bounty when you have picked up cargo would be that every commander gets one free pass. So once you sell something on the black market you get flagged, after that if you get scanned with cargo that is not yours then you get a bounty. So if you've picked up some cargo and have never sold anything to a dodgy chap in the corner of a bar then you won't get a bounty if you're scanned.

This would eliminate the honey trap for honest commanders, but would open up the opportunity for new commanders to join up to pirate gangs and act as fences.

 

[Teefur]

This is true if you have no qualms of risking becoming wanted, however for those of us who are planning on trying to stay on the right side of the law it gives us at least a little something for picking up floating cans, and it also has a solid logical reason for doing it - returning to a station for recovery to the rightful owner.

You make good points there, I guess I was just wrestling with my (in-game) morally grey attitudes to "lost & found". I really like the gameplay potential you suggest with regards to slave canisters.

 

[Argus]

I think canisters floating in space should have a timer on them - once this timer runs out they will no longer flag as stolen.

I like that idea! I never understood why cargo drifting in space would get me a bounty when I wasn't involved in any attack on a vessel? Of course, if you destroy a ship and salvage the cargo, than it should be marked as stolen.