Powerplay Balance issues (once again)

But a slightly different view this time.

So - currently Mahon sits at the #1 spot in the galactic rating, and with that comes a nice bonus for his pledges. Any pledges ranked 2 or higher now get a 20% trade voucher on all profits made in Mahon space. Sounds good, right? Well ... it sounds good, but it's not really that good.

Archon Delaine's passive bonus, which applies to all of his systems, increases prices in his black markets by 10%, and this vastly outperforms what Mahon gets. By a lot.

In order for Mahon's bonus (for being rank 1) to compete with Archon Delaine's passive bonus, goods have to sell at 100% profit or more. So - if you buy something for 1,000 credits, it has to sell for at least 2,000 on the regular market market in order for Mahon to compete. When's the last time you saw any product worth trading with a 100% mark-up?

It gets even more skewed than that. If Mahon is rank 2, the trade voucher value drops to 15%. Now that 1,000 credit item needs to sell at 3,000 credits for Mahon's bonus to compete.

Think that's bad? At rank 3, Mahon's trade vouchers are worth 10%. It is now impossible for Mahon to compete with Archon's passive bonus for the black market. No matter how high the profit margin is, Archon's bonus produces a higher profit (10% of the purchase price).

But wait - there's more! At ranks 4 through 10 Mahon's vouchers are worth 5%. As you may have guessed, this makes the situation even worse for Mahon, as his pledges can never get closer than 4.76% of Archon's profits.

And again - Mahon's bonus is supposed to be an incentive to be a Mahon pledge, whereas Archon's bonus applies to anyone who trades in his space.

Well, surely if you need that mark-up, rare goods are perfect for Mahon space? Well, sort of. If you travel far enough the profits on rare goods does increase to about 16,000 credits. So, that's 19,200 credits worth of profit per ton. Surely that can compete with Archon's profits. And it can in almost all circumstances, but rare goods aren't a viable trade for long for most people doing powerplay, and Mahon's bonus only works if you're actually doing powerplay.

But why is a passive bonus available to all players that much better than an active one that requires you to be pledged to a power? Imagine for a moment that Antal's rank 2 bonus gave his pledges a 3.5% discount on ships and equipment, and then 7/10.5/14% for galactic rank 3/2/1. You'd be shaking your heads at it, because Li Yong-Rui's passive bonus gives you 15%.
 
If Imperial Slaves didn't exist as a commodity, then trading/smuggling bonuses might have been balanced. But they are still nothing compared to the BH bonuses.

Arissa at #5 provides a better income than Mahon at #1.
 
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I agree that there seems to be too much towards favoring the "pew pew" combat powers compared to the trading (and influence) powers. The problem is the passive effects can be taken advantage of by anyone without pledging or supporting the power in any way. I think while there should still be some passive effect, the real big bonuses should come from active pledging. For example, it is well known that Imperial Slaves are one of the trade commodities with the best profit margin, due to the massive price drop and large supply in Torval control systems. While a massive flood of supply should lower prices of a good, you would think that a trading power would reserve the best perks, the best discounts, for those pledged to it. As it stands, the 5% voucher is quite a minor bonus, and the 50% rare good profit bonus at rank 5 actually does not amount to much in absolute number of credits due to the limited quantities and effort involved. There is a massive lopsidedness in Torval's benefits in that the bulk of the perks are available as passive. It is not quite so lopsided for Mahon only because the profit margin on agricultural goods is pathetic next to that of Imperial Slaves. My suggestion would be a passive discount to prices, but not so big, whereas it is the active pledgers that get the current big discount to prices of trade goods. Maybe that might be an inducement to pledge. The poor profit margin of other goods compared to Imperial Slaves is a problem for another thread and another day.

Numbers of players do count ultimately, even if some of those are purely in it for their own interest. That is why it is futile to oppose an ALD expansion directly because of the sheer numbers of merits poured into them. There may be massive overfortification of some systems, but maybe somewhere in there some other useful systems get fortified through simple self interest merit grinding anyway.
 
So - currently Mahon sits at the #1 spot in the galactic rating, and with that comes a nice bonus for his pledges. Any pledges ranked 2 or higher now get a 20% trade voucher on all profits made in Mahon space. Sounds good, right? Well ... it sounds good, but it's not really that good.
Sounds better than a reduction in insurance.
 
1. The powers aren't supposed to be balanced.

2. You are comparing Apples and Oranges (active vs passive bonuses)

3. Delaine is a Pirate, Mahon is not.

Rank bonuses are just that, a bonus. They are a goodie reward to the players pledged to those powers. Should some of the bonuses be tweaked, yes.

You can clearly see what Min/Max has done to ALD. She rocketed up to #1 in the standing and stayed there because of her active combat bonuses, but could not sustain a dedicated onslaught because the vast majority of players pledged to her were not interested in PP and only interested in the bonuses and in the face of opposition, she folded and rightly so.

PP isn't really designed for Min/Max, although you can work the systems like that, you just have to pick the best option for your current play style. You cannot really expect to pick a power and then hope that the power will Max you on your desired game play compared to other powers since that isn't the purpose of the bonuses.

If another power offers you the greater reward for your Trading over Mahon, and you are pledged to Mahon, then you picked the wrong power to pledge to for trading.
 
Afaik, passive bonuses only become active while a power is standing at rank 1. Otherwise others would counter eachother out (e.g black markets closed).
 
1. The powers aren't supposed to be balanced.

Well, then this is a design fault. The powers should be balanced. Because this is a game, and in a game each party should play at similar levels. While there might be FOTM issues due to rebalancing, the current balance is a major issue that needs to be improved.

It is not only Empire > rest, but some powers have bonusses that are just a joke. Winters comes to mind, although her bonusses are... well... not credit-oriented.

As a trading power Mahon, however, has some of the worst bonusses around. Every other power that has trading benefits has better ones than Mahon. The rating bonus is... not really bad, but not comparable to other bonusses. The rare bonus is... not really bad, but not good as a rank 5 bonus. The passives are the worst passive bonusses in the game and generally not worth it. If you search for loop trade routes around Gateway you will not find a single loop route that is better than the normal standard routes.
Mahon'd passives make bad routes a bit less bad. But not good.
 
or not. mahon standing at #1 is the perfect example that the unbalanced bonus system doesn't influence powerstanding very much.

And eventually it could also be a perfect example of the supporters of the Alliance stop bothering due to getting tired of FD's of completely ignoring the faction despite its achievements as well.
 
1. The powers aren't supposed to be balanced.

2. You are comparing Apples and Oranges (active vs passive bonuses)

3. Delaine is a Pirate, Mahon is not.

Being BALANCED does not mean EQUAL.

Powers can still be totally different and yet still balanced from a gameplay standpoint.
 
And eventually it could also be a perfect example of the supporters of the Alliance stop bothering due to getting tired of FD's of completely ignoring the faction despite its achievements as well.

supporters of the alliance = supporters of mahon, that's a very un-alliance way of thinking! ;-)
 
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or not. mahon standing at #1 is the perfect example that the unbalanced bonus system doesn't influence powerstanding very much.

It's a perfect example of some very dedicated people, who are pledged to a power for ideological reasons (because there are absolutely no serious game play reasons), spending hours of their time on team speak and in spreadsheets, night after night, collectively working out how to beat the stupid odds and bias systems to not just compete, but to win.
.
(I'll bet) There are no freeloaders in Mahon.
 
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or not. mahon standing at #1 is the perfect example that the unbalanced bonus system doesn't influence powerstanding very much.

The thing is, even at galactic rating one, a large number of Mahon pilots are still going outside of Mahon space in order to generate the finances needed to keep Mahon on top. This runs counter to the idea of having a bonus that is linked to your success. For example, you'd never see ALD pilots head into Hudson space for combat zones or bounty hunting, because their active bonus is far better than that.

And since Mahon is a trade power it seems rather odd that the best place for traders to be when Mahon is offering his very best bonus is ... elsewhere. If I was being particularly peevish, I'd be wondering why Mahon's bonus tops at 20% when ALD and Hudson's bonuses start at 20%.

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(I'll bet) There are no freeloaders in Mahon.

But we do seem to attract the same 5th columnists all the time, because apparently it's extremely unfair that we have been able to keep ourselves from getting exceedingly bad preparations for a long time.

But hey - some princesses can't stand the idea that they're not special.
 
And since Mahon is a trade power it seems rather odd that the best place for traders to be when Mahon is offering his very best bonus is ... elsewhere.

/me googles world trade data net export ;-)

... no, really, why to "balance"/"higher" a power bonusses that's ranked on number one? what kind of balancing is that?
 
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We would have loved to have a second power, but there was no room left after the Empire got 4 of them apparently.
He meant that there are non-pledged alliance supporters.
I believe.

and the 4 imperial powers are reasonable if you consider that basically the whole story of the galaxy is happening in Imperial space. For now at least.
 
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We would have loved to have a second power, but there was no room left after the Empire got 4 of them apparently.

good thing is, after one year there will be another president from the alliance according the lore. than we will see, if mahon steps back as he should, or if he will try to stay as a non-legit dictatorial power. i wonder what the council of admirals thinks about someone putting himself so much into the center, as mahon does.

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He meant that there are non-pledged alliance supporters.
I believe.

yes, exactly. and i very much think, that the idea of the alliance and the idea of backing a single individual as a galactic power do interfere here and there.
 
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