Yep, exactly what we are talking about.
Powerplay Balance issues (once again)
- Thread starter Martin Schou
- Start date
It's not like Torval has any serious claim to the throne. Even Patreus has been shoved out lately.
And we all saw how that "epic struggle for the throne" turned out. It was all friendship is magic and let's gang up on a power with a 1:10 total population than ours.
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That's what happens when you lets players take the lead. It causes a divergence between the narrative and the reality.
From an RP perspective it could be argued that the Empire player base were responding to threat to sovereign systems in the Pegasi sector. In the narrative I doubt either the Empire or the Federation who have bothered to respond other than in words.
I think the powers should tell us what to do through the mission system and success be based on how well we do those missions collectively.
That would be the modern equivilent of Elite. Tell me the story and let me help in a small way. Hell I would like to work for all powers if their current their goals aligned with mine from an RP perspective.
From an RP perspective it could be argued that the Empire player base were responding to threat to sovereign systems in the Pegasi sector. In the narrative I doubt either the Empire or the Federation who have bothered to respond other than in words.
I think the powers should tell us what to do through the mission system and success be based on how well we do those missions collectively.
That would be the modern equivilent of Elite. Tell me the story and let me help in a small way. Hell I would like to work for all powers if their current their goals aligned with mine from an RP perspective.
The problem stems from what happems when actual mechanics influence the narrative.
The whole "friendship is magic" ordeal was because of the ridiculous treason mechanic. Most Patreus supporters before the PP patch were openly stating that their allegiance was with the emperor only and they wouldn't hesitate attacking other Imperial powers. Then people realize that in order to do it you have to go through a very stupid pirate/don't kill procedure and voila, Imperial unity got born.
That's not narrative, that's band aiding their natural urges to not want to bother with that crap.
i still can't cope with that kind of "balancing".
ingame i very much prefer playing the underdog "winning against all odds" - or not. yes, i lost 2 of my once independent homesystems to the feds. meets the dystopian atmosphere of the game for me.
i like the alliance for having an ineffective political system, selling their ships to everybody... being alliance is closest to be an ewok, i think.
ingame i very much prefer playing the underdog "winning against all odds" - or not. yes, i lost 2 of my once independent homesystems to the feds. meets the dystopian atmosphere of the game for me.
i like the alliance for having an ineffective political system, selling their ships to everybody... being alliance is closest to be an ewok, i think.
Playing the underdog is fine, but it also implies that someone is doing it in order for said underdog to stop being treated as such eventually. That you want to take something small and cultivate it to something bigger. So far the Alliance has been overachieving in many fronts and has had zero recognition for it, let alone any coverage. WE haven't even went from "underdog" to "underdog to watch out for".
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well, watch out for episode III ... ah, episode IV! those ewoks haven't been an "underdog to watch out", actually they had been ignored.
You know, the problem with your analogy is that even though the Ewoks were the under dogs, we know significantly more of their story then the story of the empire soldiers.
We dont know anything about the empire side except for the two high profile characters.
YET, we know what the Brown ewok in the leather hat had for dinner (energy bar).
see where im going with this?
I suppose the counter argument to that is with the black market you have to smuggle, and that's higher risk, but if you know what you're doing, yeah, you're probably still going to come out on top. And again, this is passive vs. Top 3 bonus.
As a Mahon person (and looking at other powers), there really is little reason to be in the faction other than because you like the guy (like me). Basically come up with every conceivable way to give a faction a disincentive to join and Mahon has it (slowest and most boring way to earn credits in every PP process other than undermining, a bonus which isn't worth much unless you're top 3, and a weapon that is just flat out lame). Add on top of that that the Alliance itself has pretty much no bonuses for working for it (as opposed to the Empire and Federation) and I guess I'm surprised we have as many active members who work hard for Mahon as we do...
If Frontier wants to make a good game, then, yes, they should be balanced
Perhaps, but I think the point is that a power's passive bonus shouldn't be better than another power's active bonus.
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but only after episode III/VI came up ... or did you know anything about the ewoks before that? i think, only the ewoks knew...
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you'd prefer having a balanced game, and less many active members who work hard for mahon? that is rather strange (but each his own...).
Read his post again, thats not what he was implying, AT ALL.
there is written:
stated is, mahon has pledged cmdr's who work hard for mahon. stated is, the bonuses they get are not as good as bonus for other powers
so there are several possibilities:
a) if the bonus were balanced, more cmdr's would work for mahon
b) if the bonus were balanced, cmdr's would work more hard for mahon
c) if the bonus were balanced, more cmdr's would work more hard for mahon
d) if the bonus were balanced, less cmdr's would work for mahon
e) if the bonus were balanced, less cmdr's would work for mahon, but more hard
f) if the bonus were balanced, more cmdr's would work less for mahon
g) if the bonus were balanced, less cmdr's would work less for mahon
if you look to soccer, you can see, that statistically a clear "malus" - a red card - does work as a bonus in late phases of the game (implying your team is leading, and not looking into being banned for several matches). things are not easy.
so i think, the question: would you prefer being the game balanced, if this would lead to less cmdrs doing less work for mahon, is a serious and legit one. there are people who think like this ("justice is more important than outcome").
btw., you have stated more or less the same here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=184405&p=2839424&viewfull=1#post2839424
To be honest I have no idea what this means:
As I see it, the way Mahon stands now, any Balancing would only increase Incentives and reward for supporters. So i cant see how, increasing the rewards (as long they are balanced) could possibly reduce player effort.
As I see it, the way Mahon stands now, any Balancing would only increase Incentives and reward for supporters. So i cant see how, increasing the rewards (as long they are balanced) could possibly reduce player effort.
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I don't know about anyone else, but I don't actually see this being a serious possibility. The idea that better rewards would mean FEWER players doing LESS work is just silly. Now, will the AVERAGE amount of work done by the AVERAGE member go down? Perhaps, because better rewards will bring in more people who join for the rewards and not to actually work in an organized fashion. I would probably point to ALD as an example. Sure, they have a lot of casual players who just grind for merits. They also likely have a lot of actual serious powerplay members who do a lot of heavy work for the power as well. I'm sure a very significant number of them joined because she gets just about every bonus one could imagine in the book. So ALD's ratio of hard working members to total members may very well be significantly lower than Mahon's. She can still do a heck of a lot more than us if properly organized.
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if you are interested, here is a link: http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~vecer/redcard.pdf --- there are tactical situation where a clear malus (a red card) works as a bonus statistically. probably through team psychology. the quoted study of Bar-Eli et al. (2006) is only in german, and covers more of this.
plus an interesting shorter article: "the purpose of the red card is to create a negative consequence that invariably outweighs any potential benefit of breaking the rules. But, like in most cases, the numbers tell a different story. Sometimes, getting a red card really is the best decision, and economists have figured out when that is." http://www.cafefutebol.net/2014/06/05/is-a-red-card-ever-worth-it-the-data-says-yes/
i see it in the following way:
a) the alliance and mahon are underdogs. working for the alliance or for mahon don't gives you any serious bonus, beside being on the right side.
b) being on the right side while being the underdog is a strong motivation modifier in a game.
c) being on the right side while being in a better or eye-to-eye position can be considered boring, especially in a game world. so basically the unfair/negelecting handling of the alliance and mahon make sure, people picking that side.
of course that's only how i see this things, and i wouldn't mind content to make this even stronger (e.g. an alliance ship which is a medium adder or hauler, or that bucaneer orca....),
but i still think it's rather strange to ask for balancing while being number one.
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Well, this might work for sports because if you're an underdog and you come out on top and win - then you get a reward - you win! You get money! A trophy! Glory! Whatever. What do Mahon people get for working to be #1?
yeah, winning olympics you'll stand on a step with a big letter number one on it, while in powerplay your power is standing on rank number one, that's a big difference ;-)
Personally, I don't fly for Mahon because of the perks I get with him...I fly for him because I like his politics, I like his location in the Galaxy and I like the Alliance..any perks I get from being pledged to Mahon are just icing on the cake. I also don't play the game to compete with other players so I really don't care what sort of perks they might be getting from their play style....more power to them if they get a lot of candy. I get enough of my own.
