My issue is that these were supposed to be unique rewards for supporters of these powers. It's just silly when you have Feds running around with prismatic shields and Imps with Winter's pulse lasers. If everyone is going to play musical factions to get these 'exclusive' modules anyhow it's just another pointless time sink. Why not just make them freely available (for credits) to everyone in that case?
Module swapping gone?
- Thread starter Kyle Brennan
- Start date
My issue is that these were supposed to be unique rewards for supporters of these powers. It's just silly when you have Feds running around with prismatic shields and Imps with Winter's pulse lasers. If everyone is going to play musical factions to get these 'exclusive' modules anyhow it's just another pointless time sink. Why not just make them freely available (for credits) to everyone in that case?
Seems like a one off (or multi off as a few people reported it) thing, because I just sold and re-bought many many things, I even quit to main menu after having stripped an entire ship and was able to rebuy all the stuff. (in the current CQC Stress test (beta)
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I also agree with this. I think it's silly to keep the weapons, you should be able to purchase them while you've got the reward, and then if insurance comes around for a ship which still contains the weapon, and you don't have the reward level for that power anymore, then the insurance company give you the closest thing, and refund some cash, then you would need to re-earn it.
Makes them more unique then.
They would also need to be good though, like all of them, not just a couple.
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I also agree with this. I think it's silly to keep the weapons, you should be able to purchase them while you've got the reward, and then if insurance comes around for a ship which still contains the weapon, and you don't have the reward level for that power anymore, then the insurance company give you the closest thing, and refund some cash, then you would need to re-earn it.
Makes them more unique then.
They would also need to be good though, like all of them, not just a couple.
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I'm just waiting for someone to say it ruins their immersion.
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This makes precisely as much sense as that tiny little outpost you last docked at, the one that didn't even have an outfitting option, suddenly finding a new hull and class-A modules for your python for your insurance rebuild.
Nothing about Eliteangerous insurance makes sense, because it's not supposed to make sense. It's supposed to be a game mechanic that allows players to avoid starting from scratch, that's conveniently disguised as an insurance system.
Attempting to redesign the system to "make sense" will ultimately doom the system to failure, because it's far more jarring that some mysterious corporation absorbs 95% of my expense when I slam my python into the side of a station. Your point of contention above is just a tiny little snowflake compared to the Titanic-crushing iceberg that's the bizarre E
Some things are necessary to make the game work. Retaining power-specific modules after leaving that power is not one of them.
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I think you should be able to rebuy them even if you don't have the rank as long as you are still a member of the associated power (or possibly even if you have switched to another allied power).
I think how it should work is that when you achieve rank 3 it unlocks the module forever until you leave the power, even if your rank drops below rank 3. edit: why didn't auto-merge work?
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Honestly, even though I disagree with a lot of the arguments in this thread regarding insurance and changes to other core mechanics, I have to agree that keeping power rewards FOREVER is a little ridiculous.
Like we have system permits, you should receive revocable equipment permits as well.
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You do get a free ship when you die, if you can't afford the insurance fee.
Only that it isn't a penalty at all, it's actually the opposite. It's a cushion AGAINST the penalty of losing your entire ship.
And I can't really accept "feel" as an argument when discussing logic. I'm a very insensitive man.
That was never my objective and I don't really see it as a problem.
And you just proved that assertion by refusing to address my arguments in any way, shape or form?
lol.
PP modules aren't restricted at all for factions. They are available in infinite amounts at every single station in the galaxy that offers outfitting.
Do you think it's consistent to believe that a Power would gladly sell their modules to ALL THEIR ENEMIES while at the same time enforcing a strict control over what the insurance guys can or cannot buy?
Do you think it's consistent to assume that if a Power could somehow deny the Insurance Company direct access to their modules, the company would instantly be unable to procure the same modules from a different faction that has access to them?
Nope, that's not an accurate assessment of the situation at all. You're not putting consistency anywhere, you're still trying to selectively apply logic only where you "feel" it's appropriate - and, coincidentally, you're arguing for changes in the Insurance rules, not the PP rules.
It's not really a matter of being "correct", and you can't really "break my logic" simply by dodging the issue and refusing to address my arguments, that's just wishful thinking on your part.
PP rules are thus:
* PLAYERS can't acquire new PP modules once they've quit a Power.
* ALL FACTIONS have an infinite supply of ALL MODULES from ALL FACTIONS at ALL TIMES in ALL THEIR STATIONS
* That includes modules from ENEMY FACTIONS.
It follows that, either directly or by proxy, the Insurance Company obviously does have free access to all modules at all times.
You're arguing that it's OK if a company pay for your mistakes for no other reason than making your life easier, but it's "inconsistent" if that same company also covers the loss of PP modules, even though it does so through means that are clearly available and achievable in game and in compliance with the rules.
I'll check my thesaurus again, maybe the word "consistence" has acquired a whole new meaning recently.
Nah, you're just quitting. And just when I was about to point another yet hole in your shiny armour. =(
We won't agree, we'll argue, and somewhere down the road when everyone has fought and there's just a pile of bodies on the ground, FD will go ahead and do whatever they want anyway
Yeah, but arguing is fun!
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That's enlightenment right there. *Insert Sudden Clarity Clarence meme here*
Because they would cease to be a time sink then, silly.
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oh man, i missed all the real live garage comparisons...
this topic is to fast for having a real life.
but i wanted to add: in a garage, the wheels would probably be detached from the car, by someone or something (robot). I'm still trying to imagine how the wheels on my car would retract into the chassis and the new ones come out only few seconds later without ever beeing put into the car, or moved through the "cockpit".
(im comparing this with a diamondback scout)
edit: regarding the insurance issue... you talk about equipment that is beeing replaced. did anyone ever mention how they replace the pilot? (aka yourself?)
this topic is to fast for having a real life.
but i wanted to add: in a garage, the wheels would probably be detached from the car, by someone or something (robot). I'm still trying to imagine how the wheels on my car would retract into the chassis and the new ones come out only few seconds later without ever beeing put into the car, or moved through the "cockpit".
(im comparing this with a diamondback scout)
edit: regarding the insurance issue... you talk about equipment that is beeing replaced. did anyone ever mention how they replace the pilot? (aka yourself?)
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Oh please. Having access to something is not the same as being allowed to sell it. My pharmacy has access to all kinds of drugs I can't get without a doctor's prescription. And no doubt if an insurance company wants to keep doing business with a Power they are not going to sell a module to anyone not on their approved list.
That approved list would follow the Power Play rules of getting the module in the first place - which first and foremost requires you to be working for that Power. Not working for that Power? Insurance company doesn't get approval to release said module to the claimant.
There is no flaw with this reasoning. You just think Insurance rules trump PowerPlay rules.
Yeah, but arguing is fun!
Only to a point. I end up doing this instead of working like I'm supposed to be
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I did not take the time to read the entire thread however, here is an email that I receive from FD Support:
Hi CMDR Stolas,
As a lot of players have lost modules this weekend, I have arranged for a developer to look into returning them. I have added your case to the list.
This might take a little while to be completed but I hope you will get your modules back as they were.
Thank you very much for your cooperation and patience.
CMDR XXXX ***
Elite: Dangerous Customer Support
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*** Customer Support Name Removed - I do not want to put anyone on the spot, sorry that is just the way I am.
I wanted to say that there was no mention that it would be emphatically resolved however, they are looking into the issue and it would appear they are trying to put things back. Of course that is no guarantee but it is being looked into. So I am going to do what is suggested and have a bit of patience. If the issue gets resolved great (I am optimistic that it will), if not well then we know better in the future and can plan accordingly.
Edit: Still going to shed a tear for my imperial hammers however
Hi CMDR Stolas,
As a lot of players have lost modules this weekend, I have arranged for a developer to look into returning them. I have added your case to the list.
This might take a little while to be completed but I hope you will get your modules back as they were.
Thank you very much for your cooperation and patience.
CMDR XXXX ***
Elite: Dangerous Customer Support
------------------------------------
*** Customer Support Name Removed - I do not want to put anyone on the spot, sorry that is just the way I am.
I wanted to say that there was no mention that it would be emphatically resolved however, they are looking into the issue and it would appear they are trying to put things back. Of course that is no guarantee but it is being looked into. So I am going to do what is suggested and have a bit of patience. If the issue gets resolved great (I am optimistic that it will), if not well then we know better in the future and can plan accordingly.
Edit: Still going to shed a tear for my imperial hammers however
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Except for the fact that such "approved list" has never existed in the first place?
How about them keeping a grudge against independent commanders while gladly selling their modules to all enemy factions, isn't there a flaw in that reasoning either?
I just think it would be a very stupid move to remove insurance for PP modules NOW that the mess is already done, specially if the only reason for such a change is that the current model "doesn't make sense". Those modules don't offer any advantage that would justify the investment in time and resources to maintain them. Hell, they barely justify the legwork you have to do in order to acquire them as is.
If it had been like that from the start we wouldn't be having this discussion, but changing the rules (both from Insurance and PP) now wouldn't be a solution unless they reworked the whole thing from the ground up.
Since that's never going to happen, I'm not really worried.
Only to a point. I end up doing this instead of working like I'm supposed to be
Tell me about that, I'll have to stay a few more hours to get stuff finished and it's all your fault.
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Except that it does, otherwise how did you get access in the first place? You got put on the list.
I agree, to a point, insofar as this is a minor issue and the Devs have bigger fish to fry. My problem with that attitude is that it encourages the developers NOT to fix things that might otherwise help make the world more "real". I'm not saying this is anything worth campaigning over (at least not on its own), just that things to correct in the game shouldn't be limited to bugs and exploits. As things get more complex more little problems are going to show up.
I don't think it's right to simply accept everything just because that's the way it's always been. At some point an overhaul might be required, and fresh thinking should be allowed and encouraged. These days people complain if you change the color of the palm trees on a space station by one gradient and start up a poll to try and pressure FD to change them back
True, but I don't see Elite as a zero-sum game where everything is upward and onward and minmaxing my ship.
Don't get me wrong, I DO minmax my ship to be the best it can be, I just wouldn't see PP restrictions as a major roadblock to that.
I suspect this will all be a non-issue once crafting is in place anyway.
Tell me about that, I'll have to stay a few more hours to get stuff finished and it's all your fault.
Ditto... damn you!
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Except for the fact that such "approved list" has never existed in the first place?
How about them keeping a grudge against independent commanders while gladly selling their modules to all enemy factions, isn't there a flaw in that reasoning either?
I just think it would be a very stupid move to remove insurance for PP modules NOW that the mess is already done, specially if the only reason for such a change is that the current model "doesn't make sense". Those modules don't offer any advantage that would justify the investment in time and resources to maintain them. Hell, they barely justify the legwork you have to do in order to acquire them as is.
If it had been like that from the start we wouldn't be having this discussion, but changing the rules (both from Insurance and PP) now wouldn't be a solution unless they reworked the whole thing from the ground up.
Since that's never going to happen, I'm not really worried.
Tell me about that, I'll have to stay a few more hours to get stuff finished and it's all your fault.
Stop conflating game mechanics with lore. We know that there is no such mechanic as an "approved list" in the game as far as insurance is concerned, but surely the Federal navy does not let just anyone use their ships and modules? We're suggesting that the mechanics need to be revised to bring them into line with the politics and economics in the game lore. [edit]: It would also mean we might see more module variety instead of everyone running around with prismatic shields.
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That's precisely the point: you shouldn't be able to maintain your modules for except for ones from your present power. It makes them less exclusive and unique. To be clear, I think that once you reach rank three you should be able to maintain access to your modules (even buy more of them) even if your rank drops below three, unless you leave the power.
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Are you serious? I thought it was pretty clear it was an incentive to play powerplay and made people stick with it for at least a month. That's why.
Why would I pay for installation and swapping when my character, as a qualified engineer is perfectly capable of undertaking the task himself :S
I'm not sure the local tuneup place would be OK with you pulling into their bay and using their tools to change your own oil, regardless of your qualifications...
Maybe your character is capable of lifting a 128 ton frameshift drive himself, though, I don't know what sort of steroids there are in the future.
Insurance policy.
Unless you are a certified engineer by the insurance company your insurance would be void (at least for said module) if you did something wrong and managed to break it - A shipyard would have their own insurance for that and you would not be at fault.
Seriously you are showing your lack of engineering skills, they turn the gravity field off in the maintenance dock once the clamps are in place. I can move the drive with one hand with a droid to pass the spanners. As for tools, I carry my own and I'm the biggest tool of them all
Of course my char is certified, they don't just let any Tom/ or Harry into the maintenance dock, you know nothing John Snow!
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