Squicker
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Do you have a link for this please? Not being a smart ****, just want to read it for myself if they posted this somewhere.
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Is this a rip off? Or is this Frontier first encounters all over again?
- Thread starter sporadic_kit
- Start date
Do you have a link for this please? Not being a smart ****, just want to read it for myself if they posted this somewhere.
Squicker
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Because estimate were just too optimistic?
I reckon that's what it is. Needed to put a date into KS so DB and the gang as they were at that time put their fingers in the air. Then they got the moolah and hired a PM who devised a detailed plan with the team (possibly also containing some new bods) and this plan showed the KS estimate was not just out, but way out. Perhaps some new stuff got put in from DDF discussions etc. Perhaps also some of the stretch goals (which hitherto they thought they might not meet) bred some dependencies that needed to be dealt with in the initial release, to save duplication of effort later.
Thing is, if that's the case, why not say, it's not really a big deal in all honesty if that IS the case. I think it's completely understandable, and most others probably also would.
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People make assumptions in these forums all the time. Why attack them because of that?
FD people have always clearly identified themselves here, with logo and job description (not post rating as rest of forum members).
As I said previously, official line from FD is - we changed way we will do alpha, therefore it will be longer. Why - because we want to reach good quality before going to next phase beta. Mostly people think it is about quite big changes introduced by DDF, and also change of specs and quality level FD aims for. Let's remember, traveling proposal was in FD review for four (!) months. Yeah, people speculate, but FD has given answer to those questions. Are they satisfying or not - it is for you to judge.
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312 post's and counting.
still no consensus, wow this thread is worse than the UN
are we playing forum ping pong with our epeens, boys ?
no consensus.... of course not.
there are two groups here (possibly more) one that, having made its £35 'investment', feels the need for continual updates on all aspects of progress. the other group (including me, and it was a lot more than £35) who are saying 'let me know when something interesting happens'
there is no bridge there that i can see....
@op given that you had such a bad experience all those years ago why did you back this project?
hey, if a dog bites me i sure as **** ain't going to try and stroke it again.
I know I would be totally cool with it. But their not doing it gives me pause for thought for the project's viability. Eg how did they come up with the original KS funding target? If some elements need more time, did FD also secure more funding to compensate? Sooner or later the project will run out of cash.
Squicker
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An Internet discussion forum that finds consensus would implode and turn into a singularity sucking us all in, due to serious breach of all known laws of the universe!
When someone passes off opinion as fact, you don't think they should be called on it? I didn't attack any person, I challenged the truth of what they claimed to be truth.
Did anyone seriously believe the dates that FD gave ? I backed ED within days of the kickstarter's beginning & knew right from the start that the given dates were, shall we say, a little optimistic ?
Still, I believe that the game HAS to be made so I didn't let that put me off because I've been waiting for 20 years already. What's a few weeks or months more ? I really don't understand why people are cribbing over a few dates that were almost beyond credibility in the first place, & I think that FD have done well to deliver what they already have done.
Still, I believe that the game HAS to be made so I didn't let that put me off because I've been waiting for 20 years already. What's a few weeks or months more ? I really don't understand why people are cribbing over a few dates that were almost beyond credibility in the first place, & I think that FD have done well to deliver what they already have done.
Nope.
Have you actually read the thread? Hardly anyone is complaining about the dates - they're complaining about the lack of communication (actually, I'm not even complaining about it - just commenting on it
)
Incredible to see the success of this thread. In my opinion it results especially of the taste for the polemic, and the pleasure of the discussion, that of a real problem of time limit and communication
Not until they released the Alpha and gave no indication the Alpha date was good but the latter dates weren't.
Have you actually read the thread? Hardly anyone is complaining about the dates - they're complaining about the lack of communication (actually, I'm not even complaining about it - just commenting on it
Yes, I have read the thread, & it seems to me that people are complaining about the lack of communication because of impatience caused by slipping dates, hence my comments.
I may be totally wrong, of course. It wouldn't be the first time.
Yes of course, since it was of the estimates. And everyone knows what that is the estimates, especially in software development
Squicker
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Yes, I have read the thread, & it seems to me that people are complaining about the lack of communication because of impatience caused by slipping dates, hence my comments.
I may be totally wrong, of course. It wouldn't be the first time.
I think, and I am sure anyone will jump in and tell me if I am wrong, that no one is really fussed about extended delivery dates per se; it's not a patience thing. It's that myself and others like me (not everyone of course, some people really are not fussed about this) would like to know *why* dates have slipped. And whilst we might make some educated guesses on this point, we'd like to hear it from an authoritative source in FD.
They can deliver it in 2020 for all I care, but I am interested in the reasons behind the events because it might point to an increased level of risk for the project, or indeed it might be a marker of a substantially improved end product. And I guess I simply have a general interest in it anyway, because I'm a Founder and it makes me interested in what they are up to.
And amazingly, this simple discussion is probably the hottest thread on here!!
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They have about 10M bgp in cash outside funding besides KS money. Shares sale and credit line. You can read it all in their public report to minority shareholders.
I come to think of this picture
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3u8ysq
I'm totally ok with a delay,
enjoying the alpha videos on youtube.
Not exactly what you want, but this is the indication from Mike Evans that implementing the Frame Shift Drive would add significantly to the initial budget / work load of E: D. Remember of course that the Kickstarter estimates were created long before this was even thought of.
http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=100181#post100181
As a rule, during the lifetime of the DDF, we were explicitly told not to concern ourselves with whether an idea was possible or what it would do to the scope / timescales - just to throw things out there at the devs.
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Squicker
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Ah ok thanks, and the FSD is definitely in now?
Is there a definitive list of 'new stuff added to game design since initial concept', or is it a case of trawling the DDF Archive to glean that?
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Believe so... pretty sure David also mentioned it in a dev diary, saying that it might have been a bit of a re-design, but the end results make a better game so it's worth it. FSD is the one main "win" from the DDF - we could have ended up with a much different (worse) game without it.
DDF archive is basically the design documentation as we know it. All the threads are archived, so you can see the original proposals versus what was eventually agreed & nailed down.
Agree it's not particularly friendly to find info in - but that's kind of the point of suggesting communication improvements. At least it's all in one forum.
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