Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Jockey79]

That's so sad with the Cobra vs. Viper thing. I don't like the Cobra but I would want to fight with the Hutton Truckers.

Don't say such things!

As a Faulcon Delacy enthusiast, I'm with Khelder.

My Annie and Py are very upset right now - I will spend the rest of my time in Solo hunting you down

 

[ianw]

That's so sad with the Cobra vs. Viper thing. I don't like the Cobra but I would want to fight with the Hutton Truckers.

I pinged a question out via Skype if we can go in something small other than a Cobra and it would seem regrettably the answer is nope...

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Well you could probably go with a Viper or something else, dunno - not organising it - I think the idea may be that people don't turn up in the big PVP ships - Vulture and above..

Then nobody would know if I fight for the truckers of for code. Since I had some nice and pleasant encounters with Code members I guess I will - just for this time - join the dark side. Funny, the dark side always has the cooler looking space ships.
If I'm allowed to use my DBS, then I will fight for the truckers.

Don't say such things!

Sorry. Cobar and I tried it and both did the best we can to make it work, but it simply doesn't work. We stay friends, but we both know that a relationship doesn't work.

 

[ianw]

Then nobody would know if I fight for the truckers of for code. Since I had some nice and pleasant encounters with Code members I guess I will - just for this time - join the dark side. Funny, the dark side always has the cooler looking space ships.
If I'm allowed to use my DBS, then I will fight for the truckers.

Well I guess we'd be in wings anyway - but as above it's Cobras only for the truckers so I guess we will see you on the (space) field of honour and settle our imaginary differences there sir!

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Well I guess we'd be in wings anyway - but as above it's Cobras only for the truckers so I guess we will see you on the (space) field of honour and settle our imaginary differences there sir!

I'm looking forward to it.

I will have to learn to speak pirate (the language) . "Arrrrr you bilge rat. You die now!" I need to practice more

 

[OldSalt]

That's so sad with the Cobra vs. Viper thing. I don't like the Cobra but I would want to fight with the Hutton Truckers.

Don't. Like. The. Cobra.........


Go sit in the corner and say 1000 Hail David Brabens right now !!!

 

[Roybe]

I never played group. Isnt group playing solo with friends?

The point I want to make is following:
opt1) Powerplay can be viewed as another mechanic of the overall elite-grind witch is done best in solo or group mode OR
opt2) Powerplay can be viewed as the mulitplayer part of elite, where ED could be a very good and enteraining MMOG where its all about player groups interacting.

My post was about opt2. I think powerplay is a very entertaining part of the game becouse it caters the multiplayer MMOG playstyle. I think for a genuine stratetigacl player driven powerplay it is necessary to also live throuhg the risk to be interdicted by human pilots (cmdrs) when actively taking part in that political struggle. It breaks my immersion to have a secure alternate universe where players can undermine, fortify, prepare and expand without being under threat of human pilots countermeasures - by simly playing solo or group mode.

EDIT:
I would even go so far to propose that a pilot who has pledged to a power automatically will be switched to open game mode, as soon as he is enterning other factions teritorry. This would also prevent wings to infiltrate other powers teritorry in solo mode and then pop out from solo into open at an other powers HQ all of a sudden...

But the game is designed as opt. 1, and the devs have declared that all modes will be equal in access to the content. Unfortunately, your suggestion is falling upon deaf ears. The devs will not change this.

- - - Updated - - -

So that begs the question....

If Mobius has that many players who just want PvE then its a clear message that a large portion want to do just that. So FD could easily create a "Open PvE" option which is coded to prevent PvP.

The downside is that it would make grouping less required, but on the plus side people would have a choice and its would be official maintained by FD.

I am a member of Mobius from early days and its been a great asset but there is always the risk of "Mobius" getting tired of playing and leaving the game, even if it is just to play Fallout 4 or something like that. This would leave the group in a stale state. He may trust other Cmdrs to have access to the account but we all know over time some mistake of false trust and its gone.

Having FD in control there is no risk ( well less likely of one ).

Ok...you've asked the question "If Mobius is there...and so popular, why won't FDev create a PVE only Mode?" I think the answer is fairly obvious...now if others would just come to the same conclusion, this whole issue would be finished...just like the mode issue! ;P

 

[Daffan]

actually power play is all about politics, shadow play, and it is multiplayer as far as the Background simulation goes and ALL MODES contribute..

No its not

its actually about who can grind more npc's in solo.

You can make up roleplay stuff all you like doesn't mean that it is actually gameplay here and now. Or good gameplay which is exactly what the guy your responding to is talking about.

We keep saying in but some how it keeps failing to sink in.

The possibility of other players is what makes the grind go bye bye and emergent gameplay say hello. They keep trying to explain that but people like grinding, it's odd.

Fine. Not a direct "mechanic" of Powerplay. You really need to be that picky? PvP is a "mechanic" of ED. That general "mechanic" can be used to influence - indirectly - the "gameplay" of Powerplay. :/

The guy you are talking to is in love with grinding NPC's and has never experienced an amazing sandbox social experience before.

They simply don't understand the side of the argument we are going for. It's not about enforcing ganking or murder (I'm completely against ganking and murder with no penalty. I love PVP anywhere but hate murder for fun) - but about adding depth to our actions outside of who can grind the most npc's wins. Or a more simply put answer - giving more choice of recourse in PowerPlay outside of grinding.



This is fun. I go away for like 2 days and come back and boom - 10 more pages!

 

[Roybe]

No its not

its actually about who can grind more npc's in solo.

You can make up roleplay stuff all you like doesn't mean that it is actually gameplay here and now. Or good gameplay which is exactly what the guy your responding to is talking about.

Everyone knows where the door is...when we use it, is entirely up to each of us. Whether something is good or not, is subjective. If people do not enjoy PP then they do not have to play it.

If it is bad game design...then again...folks do not have to play it.

However, it is designed just like the rest of the game. With equality amongst the modes being the driving factor. PVP between groups, who are trying to collect PVE trophies faster than the other side.

If it is more efficient in the other modes, that is because players in Open do 'things' that slow down the collection. So, it is the Open players fault that people find the other modes more efficient, right? If everyone would just collect the PVE trophies and leave each other alone in Open..then there is no difference between the modes...and that is by design.

 

[Daffan]

Everyone knows where the door is...when we use it, is entirely up to each of us. Whether something is good or not, is subjective. If people do not enjoy PP then they do not have to play it.

If it is bad game design...then again...folks do not have to play it.

However, it is designed just like the rest of the game. With equality amongst the modes being the driving factor. PVP between groups, who are trying to collect PVE trophies faster than the other side.

If it is more efficient in the other modes, that is because players in Open do 'things' that slow down the collection. So, it is the Open players fault that people find the other modes more efficient, right? If everyone would just collect the PVE trophies and leave each other alone in Open..then there is no difference between the modes...and that is by design.

The equality amogng the modes you are talking about doesn't actually exist - the illusion does because everyone can switch at any time. Simply put, Open is more riskier - but because we have choice of solo it doesn't make it equal.

And that's why powerplay is relegated to the interdict defenseless NPC's bin.

 

[Roybe]

The equality amogng the modes you are talking about doesn't actually exist - the illusion does because everyone can switch at any time. Simply put, Open is more riskier - but because we have choice of solo it doesn't make it equal.

And that's why powerplay is relegated to the interdict defenseless NPC's bin.

PVP adds nothing to the game. It is a loss to all that contribute to the activity...as far as game incentives go. I have never been killed in open that it wasn't MY fault. I know how to avoid it EVERY time. Most players do. High wake jump and move to Private. Better yet, completely avoid Open during CG's in the area...easy peasy. Only time I have been killed is when I was already damaged from NPC fights...or when I was trading in something that was a paper plane. <shrug> There appears to be more risk...which means the PVP crowd still believes the marketing of the game. Someday they will understand the real nature of the game and probably be real upset...I know quite a few folks that have quit because they saw the light!

 

[Faded Glory]

No its not

its actually about who can grind more npc's in solo.

You can make up roleplay stuff all you like doesn't mean that it is actually gameplay here and now. Or good gameplay which is exactly what the guy your responding to is talking about.



The possibility of other players is what makes the grind go bye bye and emergent gameplay say hello. They keep trying to explain that but people like grinding, it's odd.

For you, the possibility of interacting with other players is what makes the grind go bye bye. For you. Not everybody is you. The amount of players that you have in Open right now is probably exactly what you would have if it were an Open only sandbox. Well, probably it's a few more right now, as there seem to be plenty who occasionally go Open dependent on mood who wouldn't play the game if that were the only option.

The guy you are talking to is in love with grinding NPC's and has never experienced an amazing sandbox social experience before.

They simply don't understand the side of the argument we are going for. It's not about enforcing ganking or murder (I'm completely against ganking and murder with no penalty. I love PVP anywhere but hate murder for fun) - but about adding depth to our actions outside of who can grind the most npc's wins. Or a more simply put answer - giving more choice of recourse in PowerPlay outside of grinding.

This is fun. I go away for like 2 days and come back and boom - 10 more pages!

Do you intentionally keep implying that everyone else playing the game is stupid, and don't understand anything? It really takes the shine off any sensible arguments you might make.

 

[Sylveria]

For you, the possibility of interacting with other players is what makes the grind go bye bye. For you. Not everybody is you. The amount of players that you have in Open right now is probably exactly what you would have if it were an Open only sandbox. Well, probably it's a few more right now, as there seem to be plenty who occasionally go Open dependent on mood who wouldn't play the game if that were the only option.

Do you intentionally keep implying that everyone else playing the game is stupid, and don't understand anything? It really takes the shine off any sensible arguments you might make.

Bingo.

I'm still trying to figure out why the hell people think playing the game is a "grind" and then continue to play it if that's their viewpoint.

Seriously, for those who think it's a grind just stop playing and do something you consider to be more "fun".

 

[Jockey79]

Bingo.

I'm still trying to figure out why the hell people think playing the game is a "grind" and then continue to play it if that's their viewpoint.

Seriously, for those who think it's a grind just stop playing and do something you consider to be more "fun".

You know what is fun for me in this game;

Outfitting.

The outfitting screen and www.edshipyard.com are my version of heaven.
My wife could be completely naked next to me, and I'd not notice if I was in outfitting.
My children have had to punch me in the arm to get my attention.

The only ship I've had longer than a week is my Anaconda, the only ship I've never flown is the FDL (so far)
For me, buying a ship - fitting it out - play testing it - moving on. That is my thing with Elite: Dangerous.
I'm currently fitting my 2nd Python. Had a laugh with 5x Burst size 2, with all "D" rated internals, D6 shield and 2x D rated SCB (first time I've ever fitted more than one SCB to any ship). This thing is crazy to fly, even with "D" rated gear. It's going to be well over powered with "A" rated on.

Then, I'll probably trade it for an FDL or convert it to a long range mining ship - not sure yet.
Might sell it and use the cash to up my trade Anaconda with better combat gear, that could be fun.
Or try something daft, like putting 5x torpedo launchers on it for a giggle - see how many times I can fire before I explode.

I tried to go to Sag A*, in fact I tried twice - but I get a few thousand from Sol, think of another config to try and turn back.
You know what I don't think about when playing Elite: Dangerous..... PvP.

 

[Sylveria]

You know what is fun for me in this game;

Outfitting.

The outfitting screen and www.edshipyard.com are my version of heaven.
My wife could be completely naked next to me, and I'd not notice if I was in outfitting.
My children have had to punch me in the arm to get my attention.

The only ship I've had longer than a week is my Anaconda, the only ship I've never flown is the FDL (so far)
For me, buying a ship - fitting it out - play testing it - moving on. That is my thing with Elite: Dangerous.
I'm currently fitting my 2nd Python. Had a laugh with 5x Burst size 2, with all "D" rated internals, D6 shield and 2x D rated SCB (first time I've ever fitted more than one SCB to any ship). This thing is crazy to fly, even with "D" rated gear. It's going to be well over powered with "A" rated on.

Then, I'll probably trade it for an FDL or convert it to a long range mining ship - not sure yet.
Might sell it and use the cash to up my trade Anaconda with better combat gear, that could be fun.
Or try something daft, like putting 5x torpedo launchers on it for a giggle - see how many times I can fire before I explode.

I tried to go to Sag A*, in fact I tried twice - but I get a few thousand from Sol, think of another config to try and turn back.
You know what I don't think about when playing Elite: Dangerous..... PvP.

www.Coriolis.io is another good one for fitting, although I've noticed discrepancies in pricing for both- no biggie, but the estimates are a little off sometimes. I also enjoy the fitting features, etc. Both are good but I prefer Coriolis for it's neat and clean interface.

I've yet to make a trip out of the "known" systems- but Eta Carinae (Carina Nebula) is definitely on my list- always been one of my faves. Just fitted up a DBX and also have my Asp- trying to determine what's more suitable, as I'm not "spacerich" and the Asp requires a ton of credits to fit it out for long run exploration.

I think the DBX is a better choice until I can afford the $20m investment into the Asp, personally. I've still got my Cobra which I use for BH stuff, and I've tried a few different ships and still come right back to the Cobra. Hell, I even tried the Vulture and other than it being better on DPS it was crappy for almost everything else unless I sank at least 6m+ into it. Still didn't resolve the NPC's targeting the canopy, etc. (even went to B-rated shields) But alas, I digress.

I'm a firm believer in if it's not fun then you're doing it wrong. If at any point I feel like the game isn't fun to me- I'll just stop playing it. No whinge threads on the forums, no "IQUITNAO!" postings, etc. There are some features I wish were included, things I wish were modified- but it's not stopping me from playing and enjoying myself. I likely won't be playing in Open until the crime/bounty system is revised- but if they never get around to it, I'll continue to play Solo or Group and if I get bored I'll move onto something else.

 

[ianw]

Ok...you've asked the question "If Mobius is there...and so popular, why won't FDev create a PVE only Mode?" I think the answer is fairly obvious...now if others would just come to the same conclusion, this whole issue would be finished...just like the mode issue! ;P

So extending that logic - can we assume the same thing about the reason combat logging is still here being "obvious" seeing as the latest is "we need more data to be honest"?

 

[relayer]

No its not

its actually about who can grind more npc's in solo.

Q: have you ever worked for a political campaign (in real life)? I have. It's dull work; going door-to-door or in a mall with a clipboard, talking to people, trying to get them registered to vote, trying to give them information on your party (leaflets), telephone trees, co-ordinating papers back at the central organizing location... that's exactly what Powerplay is. Politics are not war. If you go to war it's because your politicking has broken down.

The possibility of other players is what makes the grind go bye bye and emergent gameplay say hello. They keep trying to explain that but people like grinding, it's odd.

Maybe because many people do not find it a grind [usually]. I personally like planning multiple trade hops, avoiding those nasty white dwarf stars or double-suns, figuring out where I'm going and what is profitable there, working on a "perfect landing" with various ships, trying to figure out how to face a waypoint so that I pop out of SC facing the station & don't have to run the whole length of it to get to the slot, occasionally firing off my scanners... a long-tail game, and that's only trading.

It's not about enforcing ganking or murder (I'm completely against ganking and murder with no penalty. I love PVP anywhere but hate murder for fun) - but about adding depth to our actions outside of who can grind the most npc's wins. Or a more simply put answer - giving more choice of recourse in PowerPlay outside of grinding.

Again, your perception of "what is a grind" is not shared by everyone.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm still trying to figure out why the hell people think playing the game is a "grind" and then continue to play it if that's their viewpoint. Seriously, for those who think it's a grind just stop playing and do something you consider to be more "fun".

TOtally. Add on to that the people who come to forums and talk about the game when they've previously said they haven't been playing for months!

 

[relayer]

You know what is fun for me in this game;

Outfitting.

Me too! I spent more hours in games outfitting my mech/plane/character than I did playing. Outfitting is huge fun for me.

My wife could be completely naked next to me, and I'd not notice if I was in outfitting.
My children have had to punch me in the arm to get my attention.

OK, uh, you may be going a tad bit over on that...

 

[Faded Glory]

You know what is fun for me in this game;

Outfitting.

The outfitting screen and www.edshipyard.com are my version of heaven.

I (sort of) agree. I really enjoy outfitting ships, and it's often surprising what difference a few little tweaks can make. Plus it's nice to use your brain, rather than just your trigger finger...

I also really like that you can have multiple ships in this game, a great feature for me, and one I take full advantage of, honing specialized builds for different purposes.

I'm a firm believer in if it's not fun then you're doing it wrong. If at any point I feel like the game isn't fun to me- I'll just stop playing it. No whinge threads on the forums, no "IQUITNAO!" postings, etc. There are some features I wish were included, things I wish were modified- but it's not stopping me from playing and enjoying myself. I likely won't be playing in Open until the crime/bounty system is revised- but if they never get around to it, I'll continue to play Solo or Group and if I get bored I'll move onto something else.

So true. For sure there's lots of problems with the game, there's not many things there aren't problems with in life either, but I'm generally happy to plod along knowing that the journey is the thing, and looking forward to whatever improvements that will positively affect my game play.

Personally I don't see the crime / bounty system as being the savior of Open. Not saying certain elements of it cannot be improved, but as I've said before, and as Roybe keeps pointing out, it's really tough to allow and even encourage illicit behavior and then punish it with an iron fist. Murder is either something that can happen in the game, and the perpetrator walks away from it with minor inconvenience and continues playing, or it is forbidden, and punished harshly enough that it does not happen (i.e. players that do it are stopped playing). I really don't see a middle ground here, but I accept that is just my opinion.

 

[Sylveria]

Q: have you ever worked for a political campaign (in real life)? I have. It's dull work; going door-to-door or in a mall with a clipboard, talking to people, trying to get them registered to vote, trying to give them information on your party (leaflets), telephone trees, co-ordinating papers back at the central organizing location... that's exactly what Powerplay is. Politics are not war. If you go to war it's because your politicking has broken down.

Maybe because many people do not find it a grind [usually]. I personally like planning multiple trade hops, avoiding those nasty white dwarf stars or double-suns, figuring out where I'm going and what is profitable there, working on a "perfect landing" with various ships, trying to figure out how to face a waypoint so that I pop out of SC facing the station & don't have to run the whole length of it to get to the slot, occasionally firing off my scanners... a long-tail game, and that's only trading.

Again, your perception of "what is a grind" is not shared by everyone.

TOtally. Add on to that the people who come to forums and talk about the game when they've previously said they haven't been playing for months!

+1 Rep button broken again.

War/Politics- exactly on point. Facilitation of communication (diplomacy, etc.) is where most "wars" are won or lost. People are just so used to grabbing guns to resolve problems because of the "might makes right" mentality that prevails in the world today. PowerPlay is meant to be an implementation more of intellect rather than brute force- and when those who are not used to resolving outside of brute force (like bullies for example) get frustrated, they want the system to be changed so they can smack it with a hammer. Too bad, so sad. Step out of your cave and you'll realize there's other ways to solve problems.

Grind- Yep.