Is this a rip off? Or is this Frontier first encounters all over again?

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

You are right on the website thing, but they did speak about the delays in their latest development video thingummy, the link to which was sent to all backers (I believe - at least I remember getting it).

All backers were informed about delay. Problem is that a) not everyone is ready accept there's delay b) some people want to know reason, and that it was decision to make testing worthwhile doesn't satisfy them c) people just want to play the game.

 

[uksub]

Be thankful its not Start Citizen, they would have you remortgaging your house if they could, and they arent even close to an Alpha!

 

[Chock]

Be thankful its not Start Citizen, they would have you remortgaging your house if they could, and they arent even close to an Alpha!

You got that right, I nearly fell off my chair when I saw that their 'completionist' ship package was 15,000 Dollars; you can get a pretty decent pre-owned Mercedes Benz saloon for that kind of cash.

 

[Matt168]

All backers were informed about delay. Problem is that a) not everyone is ready accept there's delay b) some people want to know reason, and that it was decision to make testing worthwhile doesn't satisfy them c) people just want to play the game.

d) no indication has been made as to whether it is one, three, nine or however many months of delay.

Personally, I have no issue with the delay existing; I'm sure it is necessary. If they could indicate how long they thought it would be, I would quite understand it moving onwards over time. At the end of the day FD need a product in the market so they can keep paying the bills. The delays can only mean a better game.

 

[deusx_ophc]

All backers were informed about delay. Problem is that a) not everyone is ready accept there's delay b) some people want to know reason, and that it was decision to make testing worthwhile doesn't satisfy them c) people just want to play the game.

some people just want to have their cake and eat it...

 

[Memnoch]

And others just want somebody else's cake so they can sell it! Yarr!

 

[Dejay]

But someone who merely goes through life on feel alone will end up disappointed many times and also put themselves in some tricky positions!

But physically speaking, a glass can only ever be half full! You cannot measure vacuum in a glass and arrive at any meaningful measure of the contents! It cannot be done!

We have to remember DB has not always covered himself in glory in

HOW DARE YOU!!! Ok ok just kidding but NOW I get why this thread is fun! Hehehe

it is often the tip of the iceberg.

Sometimes the tip of an iceberg is just an almost molten ice shelf
BTW did anyone play Starship Titanic? Now that was an insane game!

When a project cannot even...
things are also wrong...
calm and considered face...
utter mayhem...
the swan is paddling...
always be a turkey.

I don't quite get what you're saying here but I love it! Although even beautiful poetry doesn't rationalize going from lack of comms (justified, agreed) to OMG the titanic is sinking (FUD). One of the best kept secrets in the gaming industry is that every game that ever amounted to anything and isn't just an exact clone of another game is ALWAYS IN SIGNIFICANT TROUBLE ALL THE TIME and is in general a very bothersome affair.

It's not like the gaming industry doesn't let us down on a regular basis.

But that's exactly the point! I have never seen a space sim like Elite Dangerous again. It is more an idea than a game! A fusion of technical excellence, daring new freedom and scale. For many of us it is THE game. Or at least one of the games. I'd gladly give 121.34 € even if the game will never be made. Just to make a point!
Anyway, lets say... it's like you have this amazing new recipe for a pie, but then the baking industry gets their hands on it, waters it down, serves it with more sugar and you just can't get the good pie anymore. The only thing you'll ever want to do with that pie is throw it in their faces. Now where is my pie throwing emote...

If the game is significantly delayed ... look dated upon release. There are so many great playing games out there that also look great, why settle for a valiant effort that looks a bit naff...

All the other space sims are just little space aquarium plastered with space soup and connected by pipes that only blow inferior smoke. Ok Evochron Mercenary but that has a horrible primary color art style. No amount of technology would make me want to play it. Ok I do want to play it, but not for 22€

Closing this thread, which has at nearly all times been polite

This thread has been a sacrilege and insult to everything I believe in regards to space sim games! From the first post's title onward, every day I've had to see it! Now I also believe trolling is a totally acceptable form of human interaction, but you can't have it both ways. Insinuating malignant intent, spreading FUD because of a tiny delay (In the grand scheme of things in the universe) and above all equating the disability to speak and write progress updates with a serous developmental issue. It's all just going to go downhill from there.

Face it, this thread will have to be closed. This thread WANTS to be closed. We'll call it a draw!

And someone would have merely opened a new thread for the same things. .. a tone some people don't take to... not tiny children...

Well, seriously, start a thread about lack of comms and the development schedule, just don't expect anything starting with "Rip off" to ever be productive in this forum
A well reasoned post with justified arguments will simply be more productive with actually solving the problem.

In casually dispensing with the estimated date

Blame those guys who overfunded Elite Dangerous! Of course it's gonna take longer if you order more It's in the very world of STRETCH goal. It means that if you get more money, you STRETCH the project.

If only FD had spend that money on expensive marketing like SC did... they'd probably have more backers and better comms.

 

[Memnoch]

If only FD had spend that money on expensive marketing like SC did... they'd probably have more backers and better comms.

Then we would have probably ended up driving a little buggy around a hangar as well!

 

[Squicker]

Whilst this is undeniably true, from today (19 Feb 2014) it will be 42 days until the originally estimated Kickstarter release deadline is passed.FD still have 42 days left in which to report on any delay to the aforementioned release estimate and still be within that FAQ guideline with regard to advising backers of a delay.

This is true. In fact, it's the first logical opposition to the request for more comms that I have seen.

HOW DARE YOU!!! Ok ok just kidding but NOW I get why this thread is fun! Hehehe

BTW did anyone play Starship Titanic? Now that was an insane game!

It is the only thread I have bothered reading on here in fact! And yes, Starship Titanic was masterful, I still have my copy.

 

[Crayfish]

This is true. In fact, it's the first logical opposition to the request for more comms that I have seen.

Unfortunately it is not true. The estimated delivery date for the £100 pledge level is January 2014 and that is now nineteen days past and we still have two phases of alpha testing to go before it can be delivered.

 

[Chock]

Unfortunately it is not true. The estimated delivery date for the £100 pledge level is January 2014 and that is now nineteen days past and we still have two phases of alpha testing to go before it can be delivered.

Except that my post, which the quote there is in response to, was in reply to the first post on this thread, where the OP said he pledged 35 quid and expected March 2014. So it actually is true where that was concerned. : -)

 

[Crayfish]

Except that my post, which the quote there is in response to, was in reply to the first post on this thread, where the OP said he pledged 35 quid and expected March 2014. So it actually is true where that was concerned. : -)

Why did you quote my post in your post if you were replying to the OP and not me?

My post held true for all estimated dates given on Kickstarter, not just the full release.

 

[Slopey]

Unfortunately it is not true. The estimated delivery date for the £100 pledge level is January 2014 and that is now nineteen days past and we still have two phases of alpha testing to go before it can be delivered.

You're missing the operative word. "Estimated".

You're obviously not in the Alpha because those of us who are are by and large amazed by the progress, and massively confident for the future. So it takes another 30 days before Beta backers (backers, not purchasers) get to play it.

But it'll be 1000% better for those 30 days, so get over it.

Otherwise email FD and see if they'll refund your money, then you won't have anything to play until release.

 

[MikeSnos]

es·ti·mate
[v. es-tuh-meyt; n. es-tuh-mit, -meyt]

verb (used with object), es·ti·mat·ed, es·ti·mat·ing.
1. to form an approximate judgment or opinion regarding the worth, amount, size, weight, etc., of; calculate approximately: to estimate the cost of a college education.
2. to form an opinion of; judge.

verb (used without object), es·ti·mat·ed, es·ti·mat·ing.
3. to make an estimate.

noun
4. an approximate judgment or calculation, as of the value, amount, time, size, or weight of something.
5. a judgment or opinion, as of the qualities of a person or thing.
6. a statement of the approximate charge for work to be done, submitted by a person or business firm ready to undertake the work.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1525–35; < Latin aestimātus, past participle of aestimāre to value, estimate; see -ate

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/estimate?s=t

 

[deusx_ophc]

es·ti·mate
[v. es-tuh-meyt; n. es-tuh-mit, -meyt]

verb (used with object), es·ti·mat·ed, es·ti·mat·ing.
1. to form an approximate judgment or opinion regarding the worth, amount, size, weight, etc., of; calculate approximately: to estimate the cost of a college education.
2. to form an opinion of; judge.

verb (used without object), es·ti·mat·ed, es·ti·mat·ing.
3. to make an estimate.

noun
4. an approximate judgment or calculation, as of the value, amount, time, size, or weight of something.
5. a judgment or opinion, as of the qualities of a person or thing.
6. a statement of the approximate charge for work to be done, submitted by a person or business firm ready to undertake the work.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1525–35; < Latin aestimātus, past participle of aestimāre to value, estimate; see -ate

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/estimate?s=t

ahhh thanks Cmdr Snoswell - now it all makes sense

 

[Oztig]

It is the only thread I have bothered reading on here in fact! And yes, Starship Titanic was masterful, I still have my copy.

I've still got my copy too - don't suppose you've had any luck getting it to run on modern machines have you - I'd love to play that game again.

 

[Crayfish]

You're missing the operative word. "Estimated".

Are you sure you're following this topic well enough to make a judgement as to what another person understands from a term?

Here's my original statemant:

My opinion is that there is a good reason that Kickstarter requires project owners to give an estimated delivery date. It isn't an arbitrary requirement and it's not optional. In casually dispensing with the estimated date Frontier have sidestepped something that is there to hold them to a modicum of accountability to their backers.

The fact that it's an estimated date changes nothing.

 

[Slopey]

It isn't an arbitrary requirement and it's not optional.

It's also not legally binding.

It isn't done, so you can't have it. It doesn't matter if you want it, or it's past a date when they said it might be available. It's a simple matter of the thing you've 'pledged for' isn't available, yet.

Think of getting a new engine fitted in an old car. The mechanic gives you an estimate and you agree to pay - he says it'll be ready at 3pm on Thursday. But on Wednesday, some of the parts haven't turned up and it'll be Monday before it's good to go. Meantime, the car is in bits all over the garage.

Ok - it's later than the estimate, but you can't drive it away in a huff meantime. You'll need to wait.

So, the product you want isn't available currently. There is a product, but it's not what you pledged for, and they won't have added the features you've pledged for until a later date, so you can't have it.

Regardless of what date they indiciated it would be available for - it's not. So unlucky.

You'll just need to wait. Meantime, if you think that means it's late, it's terrible, it's unprofessional, it's a betrayal of kickstarter morals or some big tale of corporate desperation, that's your problem, not FDs.

Beta starts when Alpha ends.


As a side note, of all the projects I've backed on Kickstarter (SC, ED, Rift, OmniVR, Pirate 3D printer etc etc), ED is the only one which is *remotely* near the estimated timescale in that Alpha started pretty close to when it was supposed to (only a month or so out). The Rift was about 10 months out, the Omni is vapourware still, the Pirate printers are going to be 5-7 months delayed and have different specs......) etc. For my money this is going pretty much to schedule! Just look at SC - millions and millions and they don't have a multiplayer demo yet - but you can spend $15,000 on virtual space ship dollies to walk around!

 

[Crayfish]

It's also not legally binding.

Have fun arguing with that straw man. Let me know when you want to discuss the issue I have.

 

[Slopey]

Have fun arguing with that straw man. Let me know when you want to discuss the issue I have.

Sorry - too busy playing the Alpha

Toodle pip!