this vain illusion of endless space...

I've spent some time out in the Black, no where near as much as many have(the guy who just returned from 10 months out in an EAGLE of all things!), but I am definitely one of those drawn to it. And it's not exactly as people think when they hear that it's all procgen, as well known astronomical objects(stars, black holes, nebula, etc) are all hand placed, like the black hole at the center of the Milky Way itself, Sag A*. The Milky Way is here, ingame 1:1 scale, and it's all built based on the actual currently known and understood rules of physics, something that people have been totally blown away by when they discover that a contact binary that has 2 stars touching each other is NOT a computer mess up, those exist, we have photos of them in real life, and that's just one of the many wonders out there, all created according to the rules of reality as we understand them currently...with a few exceptions for gameplay purposes(black holes for example, people have flown into them and out of them again).

If you want a true sandbox where you can go do whatever you want and not worry about a storyline, Elite Dangerous definitely fits the bill. You can get missions all day long at any station and do all sorts of things, or you can totally ignore those and just do whatever. Hunt pirates, haul cargo, mine, go explore the galaxy, prey on other players AS a pirate yourself, or be a bounty hunter and hunt those players who are pirates and psychopaths(yes, we have PKers) or even be one of those psychopaths. And we now have CQC, Close Quarters Combat, which is actually quite fun, wherein you get in a small ship in a limited arena and fight others, no risk to your ship, no credits lost for dying, and you get paid for it. awesome for when you just want to jump in and blow stuff up for no damn reason at all but you want to see stuff blow up! I found it quite fun, far more enjoyable than the PvP in Elite typically(risk/reward isn't good there typically), and even more fun than the PvP in SC(to be fair, SC's flight model needs work, CIG has said it themselves and they are revamping it, not to mention my HOTAS sucks in SC, it's far too kb/mouse based currently, another thing they've acknowledged and are working on).

Elite isn't empty, you can go to a number of hand crafted systems in the bubble, some are really quite beautiful(standing off from Terra in normal space, not moving, watching it rotate under you, it's amazingly beautiful, even though it's JUST a video game, it looks like you are really there, and that's on a monitor, I can't wait to get a VR setup and do that). Exploration is something that most people just don't get into really. They'll do it to grind the Elite title and that's it, but that's not the reason I do it, or so many of those who've been out in the Black since Dec 2014 do it. I love to see what's out there, literally, just see what's out there. The thrill of finding a system that NO ONE else has ever been to, seeing things that no one else has ever seen, to me, that's more than worth the money I've spent on Elite and Horizons, more than worth the money I'll spend to upgrade my system to handle VR with ease, but that's me, and some others, we get a kick we can't really describe from this. And I'm actually the guy who usually plays FPS games and is all about PvP and being top of the boards, Elite pulls something else out of me, and I rather love that aspect of the game. My daugher, son in law and grandkids are just dumbfounded that I'm talking about the cool planet I just saw, the rings around a brown dwarf that were almost 50ls across, the colors inside a nebula, instead of how I roflstomped some twit in CoD or BF or MWO, games my son in law and grandkids won't play with me because I kick them around like newbs, yeah, I'm THAT type of gamer usually, so I really do love what Elite Dangerous has pulled out of me, and with CQC, I can now satisfy the killer in me without leaving the game at all. I will leave it on occasion however, I am a SC backer now, my teammates in SRM have dragged me over, but I'm not really enjoying it half as much, although I must admit, the LOOK of SC is really amazing, as far as the ships and ArcCorp that is, not at all fond of they way they do space, far too claustrophobic and comic book like.
 
He does not have the game yet ... and even then it's completely fine.

I didn't spot that, thanks.

But no it isn't at all fine. The procedural generation has been done in such a way that the results should be as correct as is reasonably possible. What this means is that when exploring you should be seeing a reasonably close representation of what our galaxy contains.

This means a lot to those that go out and explore. I had no idea that systems could have 5 stars all in close proximity, but the experience of jumping in to the middle of it was amazing. And as I said above, looking up at the whole galaxy from the edge was also amazing.

The OP portrays this as a gimmick that detracts from the game. As he hasn't experienced it for himself he is forgiven, but it isn't all fine :p
 
ED is not the same as Minecraft, Rust or other procedural games. ED's PC is based on a building principle the same we know for how star systems exist and are born.

As for why have 400+ billion star systems in a 1:1 model of our Milky Way Galaxy, I counter with "why not"? Yes some systems may be appear similar to others but no two exactly alike and if you're explorer it's all about getting out in the black man. ED is a game for space nerds. If you're not a space nerd you probably won't like this game. That being said, I love this game. I could be 36k LY out and be happy as a tick on a bloodhound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9GAO8qzHv0

That video was awesome, thanks for sharing. :)
 
I'd rather have a couple of well-designed systems with some more generically to explore where the game shows all its offerings. Doing so would make Elite sharper, more attractive to a larger player base that is currently turned off by the game's emptiness and lengthy character.
Understandable, but its just not what elite wants to do. Good news is there are games aiming to do exactly what you want, can't hurt ED doing its own thing. Its not supposed to be a game for everybody ;)
 
Totally agree with Kristov,

I have been exploring for a couple of months (playing two or three nights a week). When you are a long way from home it really seems you are alone.
I went to an unsignificant place in our galaxy (the third spiral arm). Even there I came across some very interesting systems. I took loads of screenshots of them. After playing ED for more than 1.5 years now i am still baffled by some of the magnificant sights i see sometimes.
The only reason I came back home was that I wanted to have play in the powerplay.

Even if the systems are procedurally generated, it still feels very real.
BTW The real universe itself is procedurally generated (unless you believe in a Grand Design). The procedures being our nature and it's rules.
 
Just gonna throw in my support for the PG of the Stellar Forge.

I didn't think I would like exploration until I tried it. The thrill of finding something nobody has found before is rather intoxicating. Even if you aren't the first to see something like Sag. A* it can still be a transcendent experience. Just the fact that we have a fully modeled Milky Way galaxy at our fingertips is awesome.

Story time!

Personally my favorite spot in the galaxy is the NGC nebula cluster. You can actually see it from thousands of light years away due to the massive cluster of O-class stars that inhabit it. The closer you get, the more the stars begin to spread out, and you start to realize just how MASSIVE the distance actually is between you, the nebula, and the stars within the nebula itself. I made it my mission to scan every O-class system in the nebula. I didn't care that someone else beat me to it either; I just wanted to be able to say I did it. It only took me three days or so to complete my mission and head back, hardly as impressive as some of the fine CMDR's out there who spend months in the black. But I saw some fantastic sights, including my first close encounter with a Black Hole. It was awesome watching the gravitational lensing effect in action by viewing the rest of the galaxy through it. And let me tell you watching somebody else experience it on YouTube is nothing like the real thing. That may not be something every gamer can appreciate, but the thought that there is so much canvas out there that not even the developers have seen with which to forge my own path, that keep me playing.
 
What does it add to the game? I'm 18,000 light years out from inhabited space right now, and I've visited over 1000 stars during this trip. I'm not bored yet, thinking about scanning another 1500 or so before coming back, and I'll probably scan 3-400 on my way back.

You say it's "just" procedurally generated. However, the PG is good, it doesn't feel random while maintaining nearly infinite variety that always holds new surprises just when you think you've seen it all, if you're paying attention.

I'm a mechanics nut though. I can't stand a game with bad mechanics and procedurally generated games are almost always done badly. Elite: Dangerous is a gem for me because of the PG and my perverse joy garnered from seeing it done well, so this opinion of it will probably be the exact opposite of how you feel about it after experiencing it for a couple months.
 
The thing is, this game has both.

If you want density, space stations, events, manually crafted content, human players in an enclosed area, then the human-space bubble is all you need. You start inside, and there is no need whatsoever to leave it if that's what you enjoy. And there more than enough systems in there to still fill up your exploration logs and make some money that way. It may not be dense enough for some, the social aspect may be unsatisfying for others, everyone will have their grievances over it, but it's your typical enclosed area where everything happens.

But then, the rest is... there. Rather than a wall around the enclosed area, there's an entire galaxy. If you want to have a look at it, it's there. If you're sick of the bubble, there are no walls locking you in. If you never leave you're not missing out on anything: again, everything's happening in the bubble, and pretty much all new content so far is bubble-centric (which is as it should be imho, and i'm saying that from 26k ly out). Take it for what it is: a side activity available if you ever get the calling. At worst, it's a pretty dynamic skybox.
 
I think that's only true as of now because it's been done to death and honed to all kinds of insane qualities. Procedural generation just hasn't been pushed often enough in any of these categories. Once there is enough accumulated skill and knowledge in creating equally good procedural generation it will trump hand made simply by only requiring the push of a button on a finished algorythm to generate a new experience instead of years of extra work.

I totally agree, PG mostly get the label, its repeatable and boring, see one seen them all statements.
Well, if you feed the code with crap, it will generate crap!

PG, done right! is a very powerful tool, it will beat handmade any day. With all the data the goes into the seed in ED, I'm sure we will see some amazing stuff (we already do).

I understand that exploration is part of Elite, but I never bought the hype of endless space.

1:1 Galaxy, made as accurate as we know it, seams pretty ok to me. I don't want to be shoehorned into a map with a lot of other players.

I'd rather have a couple of well-designed systems with some more generically to explore where the game shows all its offerings. Doing so would make Elite sharper, more attractive to a larger player base that is currently turned off by the game's emptiness and lengthy character.

Star Citizen --------------------------------->

100% freedom, no walls, no rails, just you, your ship and your leaned skills how to survive sound great to me.

<------------------------------------------------------ Elite Dangerous
 
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Procedural generation is wonderful and I think its the future of gaming.

But I recommend you not to buy the game right now. If I were you, I wait at least until the end of 2016 and see what horizons bring, bacause theres not much to do right now.
 
Proceedurally generated content is as good as real content provided that the gameplay exists to make exploring a virtually unlimited supply of similar content interesting and worthwhile. For many people, the current interaction with the galaxy is too shallow and simplistic to create a compelling reason to get addicted to exploration.


Maybe Planetary Landing will make it worthwhile to explore? I kind of doubt this, and at the same time, hope that I am wrong. FD doesn't seem to be able to create compelling gamplay outside of combat. They're really good at combat though, so maybe they'll eventually apply some of that game design skill to the other peaceful professions?
 

Deleted member 38366

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The way I see it, Deep Space Exploration will likely look somewhat like what people have hoped for in maybe a year or so.
Could be that Horizons is already the 1st stepping stone in that direction, but we'll have to see how it fares in that respect.

More variation in the procedural generation (how things look) as well as adding more object types would already make things more interesting.

Hard to tell if we ever see Systems or Planets that suffered cosmic disasters, so they don't look all shiny & perfect anymore. I'd appreciate that.
Would also make for some drastically increased risk, trying to i.e. navigate through heavy large pieces of debris of a blown-up planet in SC ;)

Anyway, it won't come fast I guess as it's a project all of its own, a major update with Exploration and Deep Space travel in focus.
Either way - my best guess is that any Explorer is venturing out there to seek weirdness and unusual things. Stuff you don't see in the bubble. Currently not too much of that type around indeed.
 
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It'd be nice if you'd wait until AFTER you actually played the game before you decided to pass final judgment on it. Not impressed with you.


You can find anything you need about this game from thousands of hours of gameplay content on Youtube and other streaming sites. This guy is actually a bit more clever than anyone else who bought the game to figure this out. He also saved money in the process.
 
Bizarre thread. I know that the world outside my front door is just made up from a few laws of physics and chemistry and maths and stuff. I could just re-read my a level text books and never go outside again. Thank goodness I have Elite in here to while away the hours so I don't have to waste any time going outside and seeing what it's like out there or anything.
 
that its creators are so fond of holds back its potential from the beginning.

Hi guys,

I want to say in advance, I'm a mature player who played the original Elite back in the 80s and also Elite Frontier and I played many of the space combat sims that came out over the years. I haven't yet checked out this game, but I guess I will soon. I'm a fan of sandbox games that don't force a story or an image onto you and are not sensationalistic in their nature like so many games today.

to the point: I understand that exploration is part of Elite, but I never bought the hype of endless space. What does that do for the game? We all know it's just procedurally generated. I could aswell check out the generator and the assets that it compiles. It always bugged me about Elite that it plays this card. After all it's just a game and a game world imo shouldn't be bigger than the substantial content it has to offer, or it becomes a string of endless repetition. And why would I want to explore that further?

I'd rather have a couple of well-designed systems with some more generically to explore where the game shows all its offerings. Doing so would make Elite sharper, more attractive to a larger player base that is currently turned off by the game's emptiness and lengthy character.

Well I'm glad most of us don't think like you...
 
Proceedurally generated content is as good as real content provided that the gameplay exists to make exploring a virtually unlimited supply of similar content interesting and worthwhile. For many people, the current interaction with the galaxy is too shallow and simplistic to create a compelling reason to get addicted to exploration.


Maybe Planetary Landing will make it worthwhile to explore? I kind of doubt this, and at the same time, hope that I am wrong. FD doesn't seem to be able to create compelling gamplay outside of combat. They're really good at combat though, so maybe they'll eventually apply some of that game design skill to the other peaceful professions?

Some people will also complain if they are hung with a new rope, or if you gave them a billion dollars they'd say it's not enough, you simply can't please everyone, nor should you try.

Exploration could use something more, and Horizons looks to be that something more, devs have stated themselves that the procgen updates due to planetary landing is already doing things they never expected or imagined and it's amazing. Potatoe shaped planetoids and the like, stuff we don't currently see, thanks to the changes(we do see oblong planets already, see the 'around the galaxy in 80 days thread, couple of them in there). Once they add atmospheric planet landings, and life forms...I may never come back in from the Black.

As to FD doing combat well, uhm, gotta very strongly disagree with you on that. The mechanics are good, not great, but that WAS a design decision, it's not due to ineptitude, they made they flight mechanics work as they do purposefully, and while it's fun, it's lacking, in my opinion. I'd love to compare it to something else but there's nothing else to compare it to except SC, and their flight mechanics are blown away by Elite's, again, in my opinion(SC combat is far too FPS like, something they've acknowledged needs work and they are redoing them). Actual combat, well, thanks to SCBs, PvP in Elite is generally boring as hell and usually results in either a FAST quick kill due OR a long time with one party running away after they've used their last SCB. CQC combat is fun, fast, furious and action packed. Standard Elite PvP, yeah, not so much thanks to SCBs, one design decision I really think was a total CharlieFrank on FD's part.

I also agree with you on the OP's reviewing the information out there before purchasing the game, I did that myself and what I saw is why I did purchase it, mainly thanks to people like Obsidian Ant(aka Granite here) who's videos showed me the beauty of the galaxy in Elite Dangerous, and the ship reviews by ChaosWulf which helped me understand the mechanics of the game much better than reading ever would. It sounds to me like the OP just doesn't see what he wants in the videos, and that's cool, not everyone will enjoy Elite Dangerous, they don't have to and no one should be angry if that's the case. I'd also venture the OP WANTS to like the game, hence the post, so he's looking for the opinions of the actual players to get a reason to purchase it...I could be wrong, it's been known to happen, wouldn't have ex-wives otherwise right?
 
Also, the content that is there exists in the context of a backdrop so huge you could never explore it. That is important and feels very different to a walled game area.
I must admit the galaxy seems a lot smaller than the one in Frontier, mainly because how easy it is to get to the center of the galaxy. The fact that there are more stars than will be explored in my lifetime between Sol and the center of the galaxy doesn't feel that immense, what feels more impactful psychologically is the sense of massive scale, which was preserved in Frontier by difficulty in travelling such huge distances.
I think even FD were taken by surprise by how soon someone did, and how easy it is to cross the galaxy, but the horse is out now and there is no going back. 400 billion is just a number that doesn't mean so much when it can be spanned even if not thoroughly explored easily. Shame but there it is.
 
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