Auto 'Levelling' NPCs

Something I just read in another thread on here triggered this and I wondered what peoples thoughts were.

If you've played Skyrim (as the most notable example I can think of), you'll probably be aware that encounters in the wilderness are scaled/leveled to the player, so as to prevent them becoming 'out of whack' with the power you have.

What are your thoughts on encounters in space being handled in the same way? The bigger and better armed your ship, the bigger and better armed your foes. Or should it be that what you meet in space is what would logically be around that area of space? (ie. better armed ships in more lawless worlds, trader ships more likely on trade routes, bigger ships on more profitable routes, etc).

As far as I can see; the good point about this is that it keeps difficulty constant; so you can never just steamroll any NPC the game throws at you and there's always some challenge.

The bad side though is that it reduces diversity - if every encounter is perfectly managed to be roughly equal, then you can never become "more powerful" because its relative to the power around you, which matches your own. You would just always meet weak ships whilst you were weak, and strong ships when you were strong. (and you'd probably never meet a tiny ship when you were in a large one).

I think my personal preference would be for an approach where the encounters are levelled to the region of space, rather than to the player. So if I go under-equipped to an anarchic system, I should expect to be in for a tough time against ships that are themselves equipped to survive there (better pilots, too). Meanwhile in a corporate system, you'd expect to encounter more inexperienced NPC trade ships, less well equipped, and far more likely to run or give a wide berth to a warship bristling with missiles.

Not just the law level counts either - more military ships in and around military base systems, more big trade ships on the most profitable routes, more long range ships on the remote colonies, etc etc.
 
Last edited:
I agree with the non-levelled approach, at least in theory. However, I wonder if in a non-perfect reality a little levelling might be needed.
 
...an approach where the encounters are levelled to the region of space, rather than to the player. So if I go under-equipped to an anarchic system, I should expect to be in for a tough time against ships that are themselves equipped to survive there (better pilots, too). Meanwhile in a corporate system, you'd expect to encounter more inexperienced NPC trade ships, less well equipped, and far more likely to run or give a wide berth to a warship bristling with missiles.

This.

It's very in keeping with what Elite has done before, and I also can't see Skyrim's style working in a MP world that well.

This does introduce the issue of someone that is very powerful popping to a relatively weak system to try to pick of NPC pirates for kills, but as you say, if the NPC AI avoids such encounters then that should not be a problem.
 

Sir.Tj

The Moderator who shall not be Blamed....
Volunteer Moderator
Would'nt like to see a levelled approach to the game. It would take the diversity out of a open enviroment.

I love the fact that in the previous games you could be attacked by any type of ship.
 
This does introduce the issue of someone that is very powerful popping to a relatively weak system to try to pick of NPC pirates for kills, but as you say, if the NPC AI avoids such encounters then that should not be a problem.

The solution to that problem would be that in a lawful system, pirates would be a lot harder to find, and less likely to be 'very good' pirates, and so their bounty is scaled appropriate to their notoriety. In an anarchic system, the pirates would be more numerous and more dangerous (famous even) and attract a more significant reward for their destruction.

Likewise, if you were a pirate yourself - a lawful system, being the ones that typically offer the least profits on trade, would be populated much more with small time traders carrying inexpensive goods, the occasional big supply ship perhaps, but you would yourself need something big to carry what it could drop; meaning you might not be much faster than it is - and it might be able to readily escape. Pirating a panther in an eagle would of course be possible, but you'd waste about 1996 tonnes of cargo that would be left drifting in space.....! (this is where multiplayer piracy might come in though).
 
Yes was the answer (I asked on your behalf on KS)

http://www.kickstarter.com/profile/1461411552/comments

L> Will the NPCs auto level to track you in game ? (Elite became dull once you owned a military laser and could pick off pirates at max range with 0 risk)
FD> There will be ways for balancing out top level players
L> Once you own the best of everything (irrespective of how long it takes) will there still be challenges ?
FD> Yes, that's partly why we want an evolving galaxy.

Whilst it does not go into specifics suffice to say it's a consideration for them.
 
Interesting.

Surely it wouldn't be fair if there was an anarchic hellhole which was paying top dollar for expensive trade goods, and you could just fly to it as a harmless pilot in a beat up old ship because the game doesn't want to kill you for trying something that should be next to impossible.

Likewise, if you've earned your stripes as a veteran space pilot, and paid for a well armed ship to be able to make these journeys - you'd be rightly a bit miffed if any old ship was able to tackle the same trade routes and earn the same profits as you can.

This is surely how you scale your earnings to support the running of bigger/more powerful ships - by being able to take on more profitable trading runs and take down bigger bounties (or bigger trade fleets if you're a pirate)?
 
Surely it wouldn't be fair if there was an anarchic hellhole which was paying top dollar for expensive trade goods, and you could just fly to it as a harmless pilot in a beat up old ship because the game doesn't want to kill you for trying something that should be next to impossible.

Which I believe won't be the case ... they said that they are going to balance things for top end players, meaning, once you get your military beam weapons enemy don't just explode on contact with them ... so that lucrative trade run into a hostile territory will be generally hard but if you're a whacked out combat ace expect a few more pirates on your 6 :)
 
so that lucrative trade run into a hostile territory will be generally hard but if you're a whacked out combat ace expect a few more pirates on your 6 :)

And if you're harmless in both ship and reputation, and you go there, you should expect a very quick and unforgiving death - unless you're some stealth maestro ... ? :)
 
How does auto levelling work if you are playing multiplayer with someone much weaker/stronger than you and you are facing the same target?
 

Sir.Tj

The Moderator who shall not be Blamed....
Volunteer Moderator
How does auto levelling work if you are playing multiplayer with someone much weaker/stronger than you and you are facing the same target?


Can't see that it would, unless it has a lobby system which puts players of either equal skill, gametime, money etc. in the same galaxy.

That would make the game flat and boring in my opinion, I'd rather sneak up on a Panther Clipper and take out his engines while flying a Cobra solo or with some like minded pirat..... friends :) and take a share of it's cargo.

If the Galaxy is realistic so should the ships and players in it.
 
A high degree of auto-levelling would go against the whole point of Elite in my view. You start off in a crappy ship, with terrible weapons etc. and have to be careful not to rile too many bad boys. Then you get bigger toys and better ships, and you get more bold. In Elite II, the end-point is a ridiculously well-armed Panther Clipper than swats wave after wave of pirates without even changing course! This being no fun after a while, I go to a viper or asp and taken on guys much bigger than me.

It makes sense that star systems are rated for how hazardous it is. Maybe a tactiction/modelling software add-on could calculate the probability of surviving the trip, and put this data on the system information screen.

Also, DB was talking about multiplayer situations where one player carries a load of cargo, and asks you to escort them in a fighty craft. There would be little point in this if they just doubled the number of aggressors!
 
Back
Top Bottom