Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[[VR] Mad Mike]

There is a reason for escorts, protection. Do you use it right now? No - why? Because escorts don't get paid so there is none.

I think escorts are a great idea, but this is not an open thing imo.....

Escorts and escort missions would be a great addition for all modes.... make them show up in the BB missions as escort required for T9 trader etc, give us the ability to post missions for protection, which would mean if in open a human could sign up but at the same time many would be AI as well.

or give us the ability to adhoc accept messages for escorts and we in advance offer a %age of our profits in that run.

This sounds to me like it would tick all the boxes you want and yet still offer players who want to PvE as well. win win surely?

 

[Mouse]

Wow aggressive,

Read the source, that comment he made was a direct REPLY TO ME. That "someone statment" is MY statement.

He is agreeing with "MY AGENDA" (Which by the way was named as such for comedic purposes but the idea was solid)

Not being aggressive, and notice I said someone on both ends.. I didn't say "jockey was replying to someone" I know he was replying to your comment I just didn't use either of your names. If I am wrong I apologize, but you have a habit of being other than straightforward and it looked like you were being snide and or sarky, not saying "Hey, Thanks for agreeing on something."

There is a reason for escorts, protection. Do you use it right now? No - why? Because escorts don't get paid so there is none.

I never said force anyone into open, my whole comment explicitly said nothing i said forced anyone into open. '

Once again, do you feel forced to have protection in open now? No. But it's always a net positive too have, why wouldn't you take it if you had the chance?

The reason i wrote "need" is because you deemed it a requirement to have one 100% of the time which is not true with new system, or else people would have them RIGHT NOW.

You are literally arguing something I cant really understand the base or angle of. We're not adding pirates, we're not adding traders to open, we're not forcing people to open, we're not making your personal profit increase with an escort. It's a pure win for a new profession (escort) that is a bonus to open traders if the want it - they even have the option for it now, just nobody does it due to $$$

Yes I do, because as friends we do like to fly together if they make money off of me, even a little, cool beans.

I am trying to figure out how you cannot understand the angle that many of us are coming from when it has been explained many times. If they increase the amount you can gives escorts cool. If they make it so you can choose the % to give them even better. If they make it open only, no, heck no, nein, ne, nie, nei, niet, não, non, nage, ag, pù shi. How hard is it for you to understand that they have said over and over again the modes are equal, yet you keep trying to push rewards, benefits, and such to open only and making the modes NOT EQUAL anymore, which upsets the balance of the game and the claim that "there is no right way to play". If you have an idea to make the game better many of us are all for it, but the minute you start pushing for mode specific.. no, heck no, nein, ne, nie, nei, niet, não, non, nage, ag, pù shi.

 

[Mouse]

I think escorts are a great idea, but this is not an open thing imo.....

Escorts and escort missions would be a great addition for all modes.... make them show up in the BB missions as escort required for T9 trader etc, give us the ability to post missions for protection, which would mean if in open a human could sign up but at the same time many would be AI as well.

or give us the ability to adhoc accept messages for escorts and we in advance offer a %age of our profits in that run.

This sounds to me like it would tick all the boxes you want and yet still offer players who want to PvE as well. win win surely?

Outta Rep so here is 5lb's of Cubeo Razorback Bacon.

 

[Faded Glory]

[snip]
There is a reason for escorts, protection. Do you use it right now? No - why? Because escorts don't get paid so there is none.

I never said force anyone into open, my whole comment explicitly said nothing i said forced anyone into open. '

Once again, do you feel forced to have protection in open now? No. But it's always a net positive too have, why wouldn't you take it if you had the chance?

The reason i wrote "need" is because you deemed it a requirement to have one 100% of the time which is not true with new system, or else people would have them RIGHT NOW.

You are literally arguing something I cant really understand the base or angle of. We're not adding pirates, we're not adding traders to open, we're not forcing people to open, we're not making your personal profit increase with an escort. It's a pure win for a new profession (escort) that is a bonus to open traders if the want it - they even have the option for it now, just nobody does it due to $$$

Well, I mainly don't use escorts because I rarely trade, and when I do I'm in a Python and seem to be able to take care of myself...

But I think we're talking at cross purposes, I don't think your idea is bad, in fact I have posted positively about some of your suggestions on quite a few occasions. If it's just a way of being able to make a payment to another CMDR (and I presume that would be as a percentage of trading profit), then as I already said, no problem.

I also agree with Mad Mike and Mouse that it should be part of a wider range of 'escort' missions and services, and should be available in all modes. There are NPC pirates too that either CMDRs might want protection from, or NPC convoys that might need protecting.

 

[Daffan]

Not being aggressive, and notice I said someone on both ends.. I didn't say "jockey was replying to someone" I know he was replying to your comment I just didn't use either of your names. If I am wrong I apologize, but you have a habit of being other than straightforward and it looked like you were being snide and or sarky, not saying "Hey, Thanks for agreeing on something."







Yes I do, because as friends we do like to fly together if they make money off of me, even a little, cool beans.

I am trying to figure out how you cannot understand the angle that many of us are coming from when it has been explained many times. If they increase the amount you can gives escorts cool. If they make it so you can choose the % to give them even better. If they make it open only, no, heck no, nein, ne, nie, nei, niet, não, non, nage, ag, pù shi. How hard is it for you to understand that they have said over and over again the modes are equal, yet you keep trying to push rewards, benefits, and such to open only and making the modes NOT EQUAL anymore, which upsets the balance of the game and the claim that "there is no right way to play". If you have an idea to make the game better many of us are all for it, but the minute you start pushing for mode specific.. no, heck no, nein, ne, nie, nei, niet, não, non, nage, ag, pù shi.

If u think giving wing members more money for all modes is a good idea, than be prepared for the private group mega trade wings. FD most likely will never agree to increasing trade profits for no reason.

just like how in wings you can make beacons that instantly drop you on station, used to be able to make 20 mil an hour A>B with that method. now imagine putting that nice escort buff on 4 traders.

lets not even talk about risk, resetting instances and other stuff that is different between the 2 modes.

Well, I mainly don't use escorts because I rarely trade, and when I do I'm in a Python and seem to be able to take care of myself...

But I think we're talking at cross purposes, I don't think your idea is bad, in fact I have posted positively about some of your suggestions on quite a few occasions. If it's just a way of being able to make a payment to another CMDR (and I presume that would be as a percentage of trading profit), then as I already said, no problem.

I also agree with Mad Mike and Mouse that it should be part of a wider range of 'escort' missions and services, and should be available in all modes. There are NPC pirates too that either CMDRs might want protection from, or NPC convoys that might need protecting.

Why on earth would a trader hire an escort and then pay him out of his profits if he can go and trade in solo or private and lose no profits. Path of least resistance dictates the average person will always choose the easiest option, even if it's not as "rp or fun" in Elite terms.

What are you going to do, make 1 mil a trip and pay him 500k to be worthwhile? If you pay him any less the same problem ur trying to fix occurs, ppl would rather grind in RES than be escort.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

What are you going to do, make 1 mil a trip and pay him 500k to be worthwhile? If you pay him any less the same problem ur trying to fix occurs, ppl would rather grind in RES than be escort.

if people WANT to play in solo then so be it, that is up to them, however for those who enjoy the human interaction as well as the excitement of the risk then surely they will choose open anyway?

I find this whole notion of "I think open is more fun but i reckon i can make more money in solo so i will do that even if it brings me less enjoyment!" very odd indeed.

HOWEVER

IF that is what players want to do that is what players want to do and they should be allowed to IMO. IF the majority feel that way and open suffers, well, that is a shame, but the majority would have spoken.

I do not think ruining the game when it is working for many of us as it stands, just to "protect" players from themselves - which is kind of what you are insinuating assuming I am understanding you correctly, is the right wat to go to be honest. Any feature introduced to open should be on offer in all modes imo......... And I include Wings in that as well.

That being said..... in the interests of fairness................

this ability to log out and back in again and get the missions reset I would like to see fixed (in all modes) so maybe I have slight double standards? I dunno....... but that being said if the masses (or more importantly FD) suddenly said I am wrong and infinitely spawning missions by logging out and logging in is working as intended and is what they want to happen.

then I guess I can accept that!.

 

[Faded Glory]

[snip]
Why on earth would a trader hire an escort and then pay him out of his profits if he can go and trade in solo or private and lose no profits. Path of least resistance dictates the average person will always choose the easiest option, even if it's not as "rp or fun" in Elite terms.

What are you going to do, make 1 mil a trip and pay him 500k to be worthwhile? If you pay him any less the same problem ur trying to fix occurs, ppl would rather grind in RES than be escort.

Sorry Daffan, but I really am struggling to get your point. You keep insisting that you are not trying to force anyone into Open, yet your response seems to indicate that you consider Solo (and Group) modes to be the reason you cannot have the gameplay you want, and presumably by extension then you want to somehow force players to stay in or move to Open in order to play your way.

I really don't believe that people who want the rp based gameplay that you are suggesting would rather grind in Solo, I'm sorry, but I don't. It's a game, you cannot even win or reach an endpoint in it, the only point in playing it is to have fun, there is absolutely no other reason.

It may simply be that requiring an escort simply isn't worth it, as you claim, in which case, the most likely way such gameplay will come about would be if FD make missions to protect convoys and then spawn pirate NPCs to make sure you get the action you're looking for. Then they will be available in all modes.

 

[Jockey79]

Why on earth would a trader hire an escort and then pay him out of his profits if he can go and trade in solo or private and lose no profits.

Because it's not always about the credits.

I'd like to be able to help folks out, I'd be happy to pay 25% of my profits over to a new player in a Sidey to "escort" my Anaconda on a trade run.
I'm happy to just have someone to chat with and be able to have a laugh with as well as help them out.

 

[DarkWalker]

Why on earth would a trader hire an escort and then pay him out of his profits if he can go and trade in solo or private and lose no profits. Path of least resistance dictates the average person will always choose the easiest option, even if it's not as "rp or fun" in Elite terms.

Path of least resistance is only an issue in games when the players see obtaining the reward for some activity as more desirable than actually doing the activity. If players are doing so in troves, it's a clear signal that the activity they are avoiding is either just not fun, or else it's already overrewarding. Or both.

Games are about providing joy to the people. And players instinctively know it. Any time devs try to make players do things they don't enjoy in a game, be it by forcing the players or by providing too tempting rewards, trouble arises.

And, BTW, unwanted player conflict falls into the non-enjoyable category for a very large number of players.

What are you going to do, make 1 mil a trip and pay him 500k to be worthwhile? If you pay him any less the same problem ur trying to fix occurs, ppl would rather grind in RES than be escort.

Rewards can never fix it. The only workable fix is to actually make both running escort and having escorts fun activities.

Otherwise, players will find ways to cheese out the rewards regardless of any restrictions the devs attempt to add.

 

[relayer]

Because it's not always about the credits.

Exactly. When I climb a mountain, I am not looking for the fastest/easiest route, which would get me to the top in the shortest time possible. I in fact do take the "harder" route/the road less traveled in order to experience the climb, not "top of the mountain, yo."


I liked being at Hutton, giving away cargo to the smaller-ship guys so they could participate. Did I lose credits? Yes, I did. Did I care? No, I didn't.

There are many people who do similar things. Not everyone wants the "easiest" route.

 

[Mouse]

If u think giving wing members more money for all modes is a good idea, than be prepared for the private group mega trade wings. FD most likely will never agree to increasing trade profits for no reason.

just like how in wings you can make beacons that instantly drop you on station, used to be able to make 20 mil an hour A>B with that method. now imagine putting that nice escort buff on 4 traders.

lets not even talk about risk, resetting instances and other stuff that is different between the 2 modes.



Why on earth would a trader hire an escort and then pay him out of his profits if he can go and trade in solo or private and lose no profits. Path of least resistance dictates the average person will always choose the easiest option, even if it's not as "rp or fun" in Elite terms.

What are you going to do, make 1 mil a trip and pay him 500k to be worthwhile? If you pay him any less the same problem ur trying to fix occurs, ppl would rather grind in RES than be escort.

I love how you keep assuming that since you did everything you could to cheat the system and grind credits, that it means everyone else will too.

 

[relayer]

I love how you keep assuming that since you did everything you could to cheat the system and grind credits, that it means everyone else will too.

I've noticed how many players come here, explaining that solo/group is "dividing the playerbase" or "used for exploits" and then say. "I went into solo to... "

- Trade. More profits less risk.

- Repair/rearm.

- Get CZs and RESes all alone/more targets

- Make credits to equip 'super-ship'

... not realizing that they are the "modes exploit" players they are complaining about.

 

[Zandraak]

You should do something players against solo/private.
When dev'refuse to see a "FAIL" Just use it.
Go All and destroy the Powerplay go and destroy the "Players group" on private hise of la risks.
All stop trade on open NEVER.
If you Broke enought the game they'll have to revoke this heresy.

 

[Mouse]

You should do something players against solo/private.
When dev'refuse to see a "FAIL" Just use it.
Go All and destroy the Powerplay go and destroy the "Players group" on private hise of la risks.
All stop trade on open NEVER.
If you Broke enought the game they'll have to revoke this heresy.

And I am wondering how you are going to "destroy" things and isn't it unwise to claim to a company you are going to "break" their game so that you can try and force them make it like you want it?

 

[Erna Jedermann]

I also think that there must be Separate Commanders for Open and Solo/private Group.
I use the last time Open Jan 2015 .... after 2 Instant kills, I close the chapter open for ever.
Since than I use 90% Solo and if RL Friend online Private group.
I wrote during Beta phase, lots about the exploit, Solo vs Open, because I see all that, what you since than, so often wrote.
I also see that the defender of the Status Quo, still wrote the same that there is NO exploit.
But I still don't understand, what is for them the problem, to have one Open Cmdr. and one for Solo/Private Group.
Maybe they don't want it, because they know about the exploit, and don't want to loose it.....

 

[Robert Maynard]

I also think that there must be Separate Commanders for Open and Solo/private Group.
I usey the last time Open Jan 2015 .... after 2 Instant kills, I close the chapter open for ever.
Since than I use 90% Solo and if RL Friend online Private group.
I wrote during Beta phase, lots about the exploit, Solo vs Open, because I see all that, what you since than, so often wrote.
I also see that the defender of the Status Quo, still wrote the same that there is NO exploit.
But I still don't understand, what is for them the problem, to have one Open Cmdr. and one for Solo/Private Group.
Maybe they don't want it, because they know about the exploit, and don't want to loose it.....

Core game features incorporated into the game design by the Developers from the outset are hardly "exploits". Frontier would seem to value player freedom over the needs of those with play-styles which require players to be "locked in" and have given all players freedom of choice as to which mode to play in on a session-by-session basis.

I doubt that many players would duplicate effort and play to progress two (or more) commanders - which is why those who are quite happy to play as they want to (rather than as others would like to force them to) have no problems / hang-ups about playing in whichever game mode is most appropriate to their mood / connection / availability of friends / etc..

 

[Roybe]

When the devs say 'We hear your issues with the modes, but do not care what you think.' That means you have to decide to play the game as designed...or find something else to play. They are not changing the game.

I understand the ideas everyone is stating as problematic..but they are written in stone and ain't changing...have fun...or not....play or play not....it's up to each and every one of us to use our time to have fun in whatever way we want.

If the game fails because of this...at least you all can sit back and smugly say 'We told you so!'.

 

[Robert Maynard]

You should do something players against solo/private.
When dev'refuse to see a "FAIL" Just use it.
Go All and destroy the Powerplay go and destroy the "Players group" on private hise of la risks.
All stop trade on open NEVER.
If you Broke enought the game they'll have to revoke this heresy.

Players boycotting Open would not seem to be a logical way to attempt to force the Developer to make changes to the modes that the players not playing in Open would be playing in....

Frontier published their game design nearly three years ago - the core features (three game modes; single shared galaxy state; mode mobility) have been known about for a long time now (and discussed since the announcement of their existence) and Frontier has not changed them.

.... and players on PC/Mac will not be able to directly oppose players on Xbox One - yet we all share the same galaxy state.

 

[Kyokushin]

To me this is the mode switching that is the rotten tomato here, if they stop that we will all be good.
nerfing the payout is not a solution, and if so done its a really lazy fix.

Payout should be calculated on:

1. Rank
2. Reputation
3. Affiliation with the system

And you should not be able to mode swap at all. I can't stress out enough that this need to go away. unless we get a very good explanation why they keep this option possible?

Just give people the option to play in groups or private, however OPEN should be locked to only OPEN.

SOLO+PRIVATE+GROUPS= OK
OPEN+PRIVATE+GROUPS= OK

SOLO+OPEN+PRIVATE+GROUPS= NOT OK


Please someone, explain to me why this is not a good thing?

They cant, but your logic voice will be jammed by people who think their right is righter than Your.
You are like a diamond in this discussion. +rep CMDR.

And below is a summary of this nonsense:
Pirates: give us 100mln credits or we blockade this system!
Truckers: give us 100mln credits or we go to SOLO!

 

[Roybe]

They cant, but your logic voice will be jammed by people who think their right is righter than Your.
You are like a diamond in this discussion. +rep CMDR.

How logical is it for someone to demand changes from someone that has said they will never make those changes? This isn't about people demanding the status quo be kept. It's about demanding the devs change something they have stated they have no intention of EVER changing.

Discussions about changes to the modes are an interesting mental exercise...but in the end, it really is just that...an exercise in futility.