Is it time once again to nerf the Python?

[kofeyh]

Is it time to nerf-

No.

Python is a generalist. This means it's good at most things. But not exceptional at everything, or any one thing. It's an armoured truck, nothing more; it's also a very pricey trading ship. It's already had a substantive nerf.
--

Arguments over SCB stacking are redundant when you can also do that in most combat ships, and end up with many hundreds of Mj of shield. We get it, you don't know how to deal with them; that's not a problem for the game to fix by removal or shifting to utility slots (which just means FDL and anaconda will stack even more, which would lead to other whining).

 

[Jmanis]

Before I looked too closely at the Python, I thought of it as the "little brother" to the Anaconda. I read plenty of posts about it being a really awesome ship for trading etc., but always operated under the assumption that it was a large ship, since it could haul more than a T7, which can't use Medium landing pads.

Except yeah, it can. But in the spirit of not nerfing stuff, I'd suggest this instead.

Make the T6 use small pads, and the T7 use medium pads. Considering the T9 and T7 are the same size, with the exception of range, there's no need to use a T7 if you can afford a T9. But in addition to that, if range is what you're after, don't use a T7. Use an Asp or a T6 instead.

The T7 is pants-on-head useless because of it's Large pad requirement. I think the python sits alongside the other medium ships quite well, but I'm focusing on the T7 here because that's the comparison that got made in the Op.

Don't nerf the Python. Boost the T7 and have it use medium pads, and T6 small pads.

 

[Soopyyy]

Before I looked too closely at the Python, I thought of it as the "little brother" to the Anaconda. I read plenty of posts about it being a really awesome ship for trading etc., but always operated under the assumption that it was a large ship, since it could haul more than a T7, which can't use Medium landing pads.

Except yeah, it can. But in the spirit of not nerfing stuff, I'd suggest this instead.

Make the T6 use small pads, and the T7 use medium pads. Considering the T9 and T7 are the same size, with the exception of range, there's no need to use a T7 if you can afford a T9. But in addition to that, if range is what you're after, don't use a T7. Use an Asp or a T6 instead.

The T7 is pants-on-head useless because of it's Large pad requirement. I think the python sits alongside the other medium ships quite well, but I'm focusing on the T7 here because that's the comparison that got made in the Op.

Don't nerf the Python. Boost the T7 and have it use medium pads, and T6 small pads.

Don't nerf or buff either. Create new ships to fill the voids. Options are always good.

 

[TheGrimCorsair]

Bump it up to use Large Pads like the similar-size Clipper or knock the T7 down to use Medium pads. That's pretty much the only "nerf" the Python could possibly warrant... and if we're bein' honest? I'd much rather have the T7 squeezing on to Med. pads than the Python bumped up to large pads.

 

[kofeyh]

Python is fine as is.

It's the medium class version of the anaconda. That's the point. It's not a pure trade ship, it's not a pure combat. Clipper is a large ship because of its nacelles forcing it outside of a medium pad; that's a design constraint; making the Python a large ship then begs the question of what that fixes?

Absolutely nothing.

Wanting all ships to be the same (to make it supposedly balanced and fair) is illogical. The game needs more diversity in ships, not less. Nerfing is leading to generic ships with generic functions that do the same generic things.

If Python is not right for you, and there is something else. Great. Use it. Each ship should have a strength and weakness that makes it great for a specific role. For Python it's being an armoured truck, that can sometimes double as a tank. It's strength is its flexibility. It's weakness is the turn rate and awful boost speed (never mind the canopy that is made of paper).

I'm really hoping some of the new ships coming actually bring some unique aspects to the game. And that people realise that nerfing everything (instead of trying to understand it) isn't always the best answer.

 

[Katie Byrne]

Python is fine as is.

It's the medium class version of the anaconda. That's the point. It's not a pure trade ship, it's not a pure combat. Clipper is a large ship because of its nacelles forcing it outside of a medium pad; that's a design constraint; making the Python a large ship then begs the question of what that fixes?

Absolutely nothing.

Wanting all ships to be the same (to make it supposedly balanced and fair) is illogical. The game needs more diversity in ships, not less. Nerfing is leading to generic ships with generic functions that do the same generic things.

If Python is not right for you, and there is something else. Great. Use it. Each ship should have a strength and weakness that makes it great for a specific role. For Python it's being an armoured truck, that can sometimes double as a tank. It's strength is its flexibility. It's weakness is the turn rate and awful boost speed (never mind the canopy that is made of paper).

I'm really hoping some of the new ships coming actually bring some unique aspects to the game. And that people realise that nerfing everything (instead of trying to understand it) isn't always the best answer.

haha lol the Python has no weaknesses bro. seriosuly. Thats why I own one. its the Uber ship

 

[Soopyyy]

haha lol the Python has no weaknesses bro. seriosuly. Thats why I own one. its the Uber ship

It's slow as balls. That's its weakness.

 

[Cymek]

The T7's inability to land on medium pads could be fixed by the outposts saying "Um yeh well you see Tibor the work experience kid said he measured the T7 and said its too big it won't fit on medium sized pads" "We found out he didn't measure it at all and was instead partaking in narcotics and listening to techno music in one of the hangers" "We measured it and it will fit". Now the T7 can land on medium sized pads

 

[Khazid]

Seriously, with 340 or below top boost speed you cannot dictate any battle. That is the main reason its mass lock was raised in 1.2. To be able to escape at least in 1v1 PvP. If Python is mass locked by two ships, there is no hope. So it is sturdier and tankier in order to hold its own better than other ships that have this choice.

In PvE that slow speed was no issue so yeah, in solo mode there is no actual weakness. But Solo and multi is very hard to balance. A choice or nerf in one of the two can be contradicting a balancing element in the other mode.

Lately AI can hunt you more effectively and kill thrusters by module targetiing better so speed might soon become an issue in PvE too.

 

[Legacy_LuckyLuke]

Zzzzz. Yawn.

How about buff everything except the Python

Seriously though, Pythons turn rate can be slow - but once those thrusters are upgraded and you learn to fly the girl properly, it's a non-issue.

 

[Kastor]

Wanting all ships to be the same (to make it supposedly balanced and fair) is illogical. The game needs more diversity in ships, not less. Nerfing is leading to generic ships with generic functions that do the same generic things.

Please read entire post.

This quote alone makes me question your understanding. But there is one thing that stands out as absolutely true "The game needs more diversity in ships, not less."

Balancing is about both making ships different and making ships viable. In an unbalanced game most players are drawn to the more powerful ships, or in the case of elite, more powerful for their money ships. This often kills diversity leaving many ships sidelined and making combat repetitive. BALANCE IS DIVERSITY, if a bachelor in game mechanics was a uni degree this would be the first lecture of GAME 120: Basic Multiplayer. Balance is critically important to diverse multiplayer and can be applied to many things: skills, classes, weapons, tanks, ships and even some hats. Everything needs to be as useful as other things of it's cost but also different in some or many ways. If this isn't so then one of the items in question will be left behind and an unused item is wasted developer time and money.

How does this apply to elite? Even a low rated python is a powerful force in this game, and a low grade python is about the same cost as a high rated clipper or a medium rated FDL and can compete if not beat with both. (presuming a medium level of player skill), all while carrying more cargo. It is a decidedly more useful ship. It has all the benefits of trader and fighter with only some of the downsides.

Does this make it unbalanced... maybe, maybe not. Could just be a carry on effect of SCBs. Who knows? We think we know, the developers think they know, but we are all still learning. The whole game industry is still learning these lessons.

I'm not trying to change your mind on the Python, I'm just trying to help you understand game balance and it's importance.

 

[Mephane]

Balancing is about both making ships different and making ships viable. In an unbalanced game most players are drawn to the more powerful ships, or in the case of elite, more powerful for their money ships. This often kills diversity leaving many ships sidelined and making combat repetitive. BALANCE IS DIVERSITY

While I agree with the generic notion, I haven't noticed any overabundance of Pythons in recent times. If anything, is seems they have are being flown less (I see many more Clippers than in earlier times, which can probably attributed to the Achenar slave CG, now everoyne who always wanted a Clipper finally bought one).

 

[mono]

My observations would be it needs a slight buff to pitch/turning after seeing the latest batch of NPC condas running rings around me at Haz/Hi Res sites.

 

[zimms]

Use your pips and FA off. NPCs shouldn't be a problem as long as you don't get lazy.

I love the Python and really don't think it should be even stronger.

 

[lysan]

Enough with the nerfing, the Python already got the nerf hammer, and that was not to the good side.
Its very expensive, and not really particular an OP ship anymore.

 

[Unfluffydave]

All you people calling for nerfs are missing the point and are the main reason for the failure of many other multiplayer games. There are multiple manufacturers of ships, they are all going to be trying to find ways of having their ship have an advantage over a competitors ship of a similar class. Arguing for them to be all the same makes no sense. Do you really want

Generic Combat Ship
Generic Exploration Ship
Generic Cargo Ship

All in Small, Medium and Large sizes? That is what will happen if FD follow the constant cries for nerfs.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

When it comes to SIZE classification of ships it seems that it is not about MASS but simply about VOLUME, which makes sense in regards to landing pads.

Some ships seem a bit odd with it's classifications.

The 400T Clipper is LARGE simply due to it's wings and nacelles, making it too wide for medium pads. Compare this to the 580T Dropship, a medium vessel.

The Type 7 seems a bit ODD to be a large vessel since by volume it's not bigger than other ships designated as medium ships.

Ship scale gallery
http://imgur.com/a/btQ4t

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/36lv0t/3d_models_the_ships_to_scale_a_gallery/

 

[Arubeto]

No, NO, and for the third time NO! The Python is the BEST all round ship in the game. Yes, it can get beaten by other vessels, but there is (currently) no other ship that has such a wide range of capabilities. Will people PLEASE stop asking for the Python to be nerfed? I would suggest that the next person who asks finds that their account is nerfed, and every ship they own is crippled!

Lol, how can it be "crippled" after a balance pass if you call it the "BEST" all round ship right now? Wouldn't it merely be "balanced"?

 

[Vasious]

When it comes to SIZE classification of ships it seems that it is not about MASS but simply about VOLUME, which makes sense in regards to landing pads.

Some ships seem a bit odd with it's classifications.

The 400T Clipper is LARGE simply due to it's wings and nacelles, making it too wide for medium pads. Compare this to the 580T Dropship, a medium vessel.

The Type 7 seems a bit ODD to be a large vessel since by volume it's not bigger than other ships designated as medium ships.

Ship scale gallery
http://imgur.com/a/btQ4t

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/36lv0t/3d_models_the_ships_to_scale_a_gallery/

Yes I believe the Type-7 Height forced it to use the Large over the medium pad

 

[Poseidal]

All you people calling for nerfs are missing the point and are the main reason for the failure of many other multiplayer games. There are multiple manufacturers of ships, they are all going to be trying to find ways of having their ship have an advantage over a competitors ship of a similar class. Arguing for them to be all the same makes no sense. Do you really want

Generic Combat Ship
Generic Exploration Ship
Generic Cargo Ship

All in Small, Medium and Large sizes? That is what will happen if FD follow the constant cries for nerfs.

No, you're the one missing the point.

What we get is the generic 'one ship to rule them all' in each category if there aren't nerfs, because one ends up clearly at an advantage with the others not making it up easily.

Nerfs aren't arguing for them to be the same, but to give as many ships as possible a viable role and use, so they get seen at all, and avoid there being garbage ships.