UA Mystery thread 4 - The Canonn

[Greenmantle]

Just a thought from an outsider:

Has anyone considered that FD is providing 2 linked puzzles - one relying on deductive reasoning (all those hypotheses about UA activity to be proven or disproven) and the other relying on inductive (the medical convoys, their dialogue, their contents..). Am I wrong in thinking that more work is done on the former than the latter? Is there, eg, anywhere where all the NPC dialogue from medical convoys has been stored? Compared to the normal run of NPC chat, it's pretty sophisticated - no doubt for a reason. We know (only) a little about where these convoys go, but can we gain any idea of where they are coming from?

A further consideration is the cargo. Escape pods in normal USS we assume to contain uninjured stranded pilots, but in the medical convoys we have progenitor cells and scientific research, suggesting that the casualties here not only require healing, but also that data about their injuries/disease is being carried - because it's a problem needing a solution. The constant stress in the NPC chat about the importance of the mission suggests this is not some simple search and rescue endeavour, but something of vital importance.

And finally, (if I read it correctly) the apparent reaction of the convoys to UAs surely suggests not only a linkage, but a perceived threat?

Is it worth trying to put together some of the hints we are being given?

 

[Kyp Shard]

Cool! Rizal, have some biscuits after all that decoding

So now it needs to be done again and again and again with one less rare in the hold to find which rare makes the difference.

While weeping over that sisyphean task, let's consider what use this behaviour is.. How can this progress us in solving the mystery, how can we make it into a tool?
Or is it just a bug, something interrupting the intended behaviour so it reverts to pre 1.4 behaviour?

 

[Patau82]

IMPORTANT NEWS - MORSE DECODED!

It seems that the rares in CMDR Delmonte's hold, make the UA change its behavior!

THOMPSON DOCK MORSE CONFIRMED!

In detail: Even if CMDR Delmonte took his video from a very short distance, different from the previous video, the UA still spelled the name of the Station, instead of drawing his ship.
Another test now could be to make the same experiment in front of some other station as well.
And would be nice to know which rare item did trigger this thing...

Let the speculation BEGIN!

We could test it!
The collection can be split into 2 groups and then each group tested to see if there is difference. If one group is found to be causing the UA to behave differently then split the group and repeat the test until possibilities are narrowed down.

 

[Neizir]

Cool! Rizal, have some biscuits after all that decoding

So now it needs to be done again and again and again with one less rare in the hold to find which rare makes the difference.

While weeping over that sisyphean task, let's consider what use this behaviour is.. How can this progress us in solving the mystery, how can we make it into a tool?
Or is it just a bug, something interrupting the intended behaviour so it reverts to pre 1.4 behaviour?

BROOKES! Bug or not a bug? Tell us, O bearded prophet!

 

[Crag_bomb]

Suppose we should try and go ahead with the long and arduous task of singling out what rare is causing this change in behaviour - if there is one.

Split them in half, test - if it still happens, halve again; if not, one of the other half + repeat. Should take less than 10 goes. Providing it's a single rare and not a combination...

Could be done before morning (noting that after months of lurking and watching this unfurl, suddenly I'm all impatient).

 

[Kyp Shard]

Split them in half, test - if it still happens, halve again; if not, one of the other half + repeat. Should take less than 10 goes. Providing it's a single rare and not a combination...

Could be done before morning (noting that after months of lurking and watching this unfurl, suddenly I'm all impatient).

Excellent! Have a biscuit

 

[clavain]

We can tell who the programmers are here... ;-)

 

[Graham65]

IMPORTANT NEWS - MORSE DECODED!

It seems that the rares in CMDR Delmonte's hold, make the UA change its behavior!

THOMPSON DOCK MORSE CONFIRMED!

In detail: Even if CMDR Delmonte took his video from a very short distance, different from the previous video, the UA still spelled the name of the Station, instead of drawing his ship.
Another test now could be to make the same experiment in front of some other station as well.
And would be nice to know which rare item did trigger this thing...

Let the speculation BEGIN!

Tinfoil on. Okay first it morsed the system it was in then it scanned and transmitted the scan now it's back to transmitting location. Looks like, it has found who/what it was looking for and is now telling it's creator I'm here come and get me. I'm off to A rate my trade Python for combat. tinfoil off

 

[rizal72]

Well, colour me impressed.

Suppose we should try and go ahead with the long and arduous task of singling out what rare is causing this change in behaviour - if there is one.

In fact, wait a moment. Having all the rares in his hold causes the Morse behaviour to change into scanning the nearest object - which was standard in 1.3 but changed in 1.4 when the Morse drew your ship. Also in 1.4, the UA began pointing towards Merope. Since its behaviour has changed and it still points at Merope, why don't you take it there for testing?

It's a good idea indeed. But first I'd like to see the behavior of a free floater first. But it's on the way to Merope, so should be easy

Silly question, but are we certain all UAs morse the ships? Is it possible that a UA picked up in 1.3 might still just Morse the closest location? Or a 1.4 UA might in fact have been doing both, and we did not notice it until now? It seems an odd way to change the behaviour of an alien probe - "Oh look, Earl Grey Tea, I'll just Morse the station name and hope the silly humans give me more of that."

Or, is it possible UAs have life stages? Early ones morse closest location, before they "evolve" or grow and then Morse the ship?

Edit: Oh, and yes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCNNLgLbd0U

It was discussed early this morning.
Ratking discovered the UA pointing to Merope with his 1.3 UA.
I personally kept an UA in my second account's Sidewinder, and did all the Science with it in 1.4.
Not talking about how this is very unlikely from a coding point of view as well.

We did a few test this morning with empty ships in front of Thompson Dock, and the UA drawn the ships as usual.

Only Delmonte's UA spelled the name of the Station.

@Delmonte: was some other CMDR present in the instance while you did the last recording? Because I'm seeing another ship close to you in your video, and it still could be that thing that triggered the UA...

 

[RedWizzard]

Alright, hopefully I'm not going to propose something that has already been done. If so please accept my apologies, commanders.

If we are to theorise that whoever sent the UAs knew of our existence in this part of the galaxy (somewhat likely as they use morse) and that they are here because of us (to invade us/communicate with us/investigate us...) it's not unlikely that more than one spawning point would have been chosen. So if, for instance, these things are going to create some kind of portal for invading forces it would be a lot more effective if there were several spawning points like Merope surrounding the Bubble (human occupied space). That way they could attack from multiple fronts and make defending the human systems much more difficult. I think if those other spawning points exist, a fairly likely location for one would be in the "mirror" position from Merope, where Sol is the actual "mirroring point".

So here's the experiment I'm proposing:

1. Draw a line from Merope to Sol and continue it out the other end until I've covered the equivalent Merope-Sol distance, then see what system is there (let's call it system "X").
2. Go out and explore as many systems as possible that fall within a 135-150LY distance from system X, searching for other UAs forming another Merope-like shell.

It's been proposed before, but I don't know of anyone doing much checking. Personally I think it's unlikely because there haven't been any confirmed UAs found other than in the shell (except one report of a UA found in a WSS in Warkushanui which hasn't been replicated), and also because the UAs point to Merope even when taken to the other side of the bubble. But your theory is worth testing properly.

I suggest you do some initial testing. If UAs are as common in the second shell as they are around Merope they will be easy to find even for a single commander. Mirroring the coordinates for Aries Dark Region GW-W d1-52 through Sol gives (55.96875, 112.34375, 208.375) so I think HIP 75948 is probably a good place to start looking. If you find anything there will be plenty of people willing to help do a more comprehensive search.

 

[Dommarraa]

Just to calm/inflame the hysteria earlier regarding Maia.
UA Dropped into Exclusion Zone, left for a bit, then shot with Lasers from a range of about 350m

[video=youtube_share;ng3CwYcfDzM]https://youtu.be/ng3CwYcfDzM[/video]

 

[RedWizzard]

I would be surprised too, to be honest, but I still think it's worth a shot. There's also the possibility that there are other shells, except none of them will be in the "mirror area" of Merope's shell, but perhaps will have a more random distribution. So even if they exist I may miss them completely.

As a side note, does anyone have any useful advice on how to calculate positions, or plot courses, based on galaxy map coordinates? Specifically for doing things like calculating the mirror position of a system relative to Sol, and other similar calculations. I was going to try to dust off my vector math to figure it out, but I wonder if there's perhaps a tool somewhere online that will make that kind of work easier. If someone knows and can post about it here that would be great. I think any tool that can help us plot courses or show patterns in a 3D volume, using galaxy map coordinates as a base, could prove to be really useful for this and other future Canonn endeavours.

Calculating coordinates mirrored through Sol is easy since Sol is at (0, 0, 0): just negate each component: (X, Y, Z) -> (-X, -Y, -Z).
You can get coordinates from EDDB (eddb.io) or EDSM (edsm.net; you'll need to register).
I don't know of the sort of tool you're after. I do most of my stuff using a bunch of webpages that grab data from EDSM. They're available here: https://github.com/SteveHodge/ed-systems. I've written a quick page to get the 20 closest known systems to a given point (nearest.html).

- - - Updated - - -

RedWizzard is your man. If he doesn't appear in 1...2...3... after the mention of calculating star positions, just drop him a PM. Or Jmanis.

You know me too well

 

[Han_Zen]

@ Delmonte, Riz and all rare colloectors. Well done!

 

[Patau82]

Excellent! Have a biscuit

hey I ninja'd him, that biscuit is mine!

 

[slartybartfast]

Wohoo progress nice work from CMDR Delmonte and the peeps who got the rares. i wounder if they will now act differently around one of the bodies in the Merope system?
On another note i had a quick look for UA's found one in COL 285SECTOR GW-V C21 system ( 138.0ly from Merope ) 67ls from the main star, its a binary one and the companion star is 108,000ls away so i thought i would have a look and see if any popped up. sure enough 107,000 ls out for the main star found a UA and then found one 24ls from the companion star.
Has this been observed before? i thought they were mainly around the main star.
Have more finds to list will do them soon.
i dont know how you add them to the main list so can some one point me in the right direction please.

 

[rizal72]

Just to calm/inflame the hysteria earlier regarding Maia.
UA Dropped into Exclusion Zone, left for a bit, then shot with Lasers from a range of about 350m

https://youtu.be/ng3CwYcfDzM

Haha, I did exactly the same minutes ago. And let it die into the exclusion zone as well.
BTW I've already took an UA there in 1.3 and nothing then, nothing now. Apart from the weird noises all the BH make, with or without an UA.

 

[rizal72]

Eh, that's some assumption there, that it's the rares that cause it. Wasn't all the data that led to the discovery of the 'ship image morse' done on floaters in Merope? There are plenty of other factors that could result in this UA morsing the station name, such as:

1) it's a 1.3 UA
2) All UAs do that when dropped at a station
3) UAs only do the ship morse when floaters
4) UAs only do the ship morse when within a specific range of Merope.

Sure, it being a rare is a possibility, but correlation does not imply causation.

1) NO
2) NO
3) NO
4) NO

Sorry, all your points were already tried, discussed, disproven and so on. Read the thread carefully.

The only other reason could be another ship in the instance, still not confirmed by CMDR DelMonte.

 

[RedWizzard]

After TWO MONTHS of reading the WHOLE 4 threads I would like a cookie.....

You deserve one for getting through that lot!

 

[Han_Zen]

So, I don't know if this is something or nothing, or if it gets us anywhere, but something has been nagging me about the Pleiades for some time now, and I could not put my finger on it until just now, after doing some more reading about different ancient and classical Earth cultures mythologies around them. There seems to be one common theme in all the mythologies around the Pleiades, including, for those noting the recent religious bent of some of the FD names in Galnet and stations and the like, Christianity. This common thread is that one of the stars is missing. Grok that for a while, while I do some more reading.

Edit: Possible "missing" Pleiad Greek mythologies in various accounts are Electra mourning for Troy, or Merope in shame for marrying the mortal king Sisyphus, settling for less than her six sisters who all married gods. "Tales of a missing star are found in other places in Europe, in China, India, Japan, the Americas, Africa, and Australia. The Pirt-Kopan-noot tribe of Australia tell a tale of a missing Pleiad. According to their tradition, the Pleiades were a chieftess named Gneeanggar and her six attendants. Waa, the crow (the star Canopus),fell in love with her. One day while the women were hunting grubs, Waa changed himself into a white grub and bored himself into a tree trunk to await his love who was sure to find him. When she stuck her bone hook into the hole he let her draw him out, turned into a giant, and carried her away. Since then only the six attendants remain. The Africans say that there are seven stars but that one, plain and not as beautiful as her sisters, hides herself for shame. (This suggests Pleione, the star that can be lost in Atlas’s glare.) "

Interesting Canopus connection too. Also, many of these mythologies portray the seven Pleiades as doves, or a hen with chicks, or other forms of birds. And what does one interpretation of the drawings on the UA look like?

Many modern astronomers considers Pleione to be the most likely candidate for the 'real lost Pleiad'.

This is because Pleione is a Gamma Cassiopeiae variable. It has large changes in luminousity over time (30-100 years period).

 

[Crag_bomb]

hey I ninja'd him, that biscuit is mine!

You ninja'd me, I ninja'd the biscuit!