CQC Fair? I don't think so.

Shaamaan · Nov 5, 2015

I hate symmetrical games which don't offer a level playing field (by letting some players have better toys than others) and then have the nerve to call themselves competitive. So CQC gets my scorn right from the start. But that doesn't end there. See, when games are fast paced and have plenty of people (like, say, CoD, to name a popular contender) the individual imbalance of players matters less.

But in CQC the number of players is... 6. That's a 3v3 match (Can it be more? That's what I had so far...). Yeah, it makes a HUGE difference when I'm fighting with other Rank 1 players and the enemy has an Eagle on their team while their fighters are loaded with weapons which pack a bigger punch. Yeah... not much fun, and not really fair.

Then there's the fact that there IS no customization initially. Even CoD does this, letting new players experiment with different premade loadouts - specifically so that players who already have unlocks don't get to hog all the toys and can still get a taste of their own medicine.

So, as far as I can tell, after trying CQC (thank you ugly right-side-panel rank display), it's not optimal.

EDIT: No, I don't like CoD either. I did like it waaaay back when it had no unlocks and levels...

Sadistic Intentions · Nov 5, 2015

"Shrug" Feel better now you got that off your chest do ya?
I actually think that CQC is a lot of fun and the rank badge bothers me not in the slightest.

Shaamaan · Nov 5, 2015

Sadistic Intentions said:
"Shrug" Feel better now you got that off your chest do ya?

Condescending much?

I actually think that CQC is a lot of fun and the rank badge bothers me not in the slightest.

Aaaand, you missed the whole "low numbers, not equal playing field, no off-the-bat customization" arguments completely.

Fendalton · Nov 5, 2015

Make a suggestion thread on what should be changed then, not a whining thread.

The Imperial Fighter comes out so that's something.

KillingTime · Nov 6, 2015

How many matches have you played? I'm guessing not many because otherwise you'd know that you can have 4v4, the Condor is a LOT of fun to fly, has chaff which renders many of the larger weapons useless on other ships, it's the only place you can fly it and it's the most nimble ship in the game and is faster and can out turn the eagle and Sidey.

I can't really remember how long it took me to get to the rank for an eagle (5?) but it wasn't long... maybe 3-4 games? Don't really remember it being much of a problem.

Given there are so few modification options anyway, what would be your proposed solution?

Yodafone · Nov 6, 2015

KillingTime said:
How many matches have you played? I'm guessing not many because otherwise you'd know that you can have 4v4, the Condor is a LOT of fun to fly, has chaff which renders many of the larger weapons useless on other ships, it's the only place you can fly it and it's the most nimble ship in the game and is faster and can out turn the eagle and Sidey.

I can't really remember how long it took me to get to the rank for an eagle (5?) but it wasn't long... maybe 3-4 games? Don't really remember it being much of a problem.

Given there are so few modification options anyway, what would be your proposed solution?

Exactly this ^^ original poster. Stick at the game, once you've ranked up to get the particularly useful upgrades such as the power coupling (rank 5/6, I think) and the efficiency boost (rank 11), the balance is much improved after you've reached this, and it doesn't take long.

Shaamaan · Nov 6, 2015

Yodafone said:
Exactly this ^^ original poster. Stick at the game, once you've ranked up to get the particularly useful upgrades such as the power coupling (rank 5/6, I think) and the efficiency boost (rank 11), the balance is much improved after you've reached this, and it doesn't take long.

So... by your own admission, the game is NOT balanced.

The point is the mode is off-putting. Again, it gets scorn from the start by being semi-forced (stupid in-game rank for something that's not really in-game) and not providing an equal playing field (damn unlocks in multiplayer) - and I'll admit, my dislike for these factors is purely subjective.

But then there are those additional sins I mentioned. There are ways of minimizing negative impact of these things, but it seems the developers didn't think of implementing any of them.

As for someone mentioning 4v4 - chalk that one up to shoddy matchmaking, I guess.

Yodafone · Nov 6, 2015

Shaamaan said:
So... by your own admission, the game is NOT balanced.

The point is the mode is off-putting. Again, it gets scorn from the start by being semi-forced (stupid in-game rank for something that's not really in-game) and not providing an equal playing field (damn unlocks in multiplayer) - and I'll admit, my dislike for these factors is purely subjective.

But then there are those additional sins I mentioned. There are ways of minimizing negative impact of these things, but it seems the developers didn't think of implementing any of them.

As for someone mentioning 4v4 - chalk that one up to shoddy matchmaking, I guess.

Perhaps it's not balanced initially, I'm not going to lie to you (just my opinion too), but I think one needs the "feel" and incentives to get to the important unlocks to make you look forward to them and appreciate these once you have unlocked them, one can't appreciate the good without the bad, it almost teaches you as to what is valuable.

Most if not all games are like this, you do start at a disadvantage but this is where the "BattleRating" comes in to play so you are matchmaked with similar players at a similar level (sometimes this may not work if the server can't find enough of a similar amount of players to match you with, saving you waiting in a lobby for an eternity), but.. like I say, it doesn't take very long at all to get to these low ish ranks to get the balancing unlocks.

It was always going to be like this as each ship is different with its own advantages/disadvantages, but if there were no unlocks at all it would have lacked a certain accomplishment, and again it's designed to teach you what your ship obviously needs, so once you get the upgrade(s) you know how to use it efficiently.

Honestly, get to rank 11 and you'll be fine.

Edit: if you require any further help check out my top ten tips (plus many, many more) guide for CQC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNg0UsoyUT0

matemaster · Nov 6, 2015

fair PVP is utopia

Tettric · Nov 6, 2015

Dude, the Condor is the best ship in CQC...

The Eagle can't turn as fast and the beam lasers aren't actually that great. The plasma repeaters on the Condor aren't actually better than the lasers, just different and more orientated to damaging hulls rather than shields.

I've unlocked the Eagle and the Sidewinder but neither of them are as good as the Condor. The only conclusion I can come to from your post is that the guy in the Eagle was a better pilot than you. Considering you can out turn him, your weapons have more aim assist on them than his and you can outrun him...

Shaamaan · Nov 6, 2015

Yodafone said:
Perhaps it's not balanced initially, I'm not going to lie to you (just my opinion too), but I think one needs the "feel" and incentives to get to the important unlocks to make you look forward to them and appreciate these once you have unlocked them, one can't appreciate the good without the bad, it almost teaches you as to what is valuable.

There's issue one. Ideally said unlocks shouldn't be better or worse - they should fit someones style of play better or not. You can have "bad" and "best" equipement in single-player games or MMOs, just not in a multiplayer mode which aims to be competitive.

Most if not all games are like this, you do start at a disadvantage (...)

It was always going to be like this as each ship is different with its own advantages/disadvantages, but if there were no unlocks at all it would have lacked a certain accomplishment, and again it's designed to teach you what your ship obviously needs, so once you get the upgrade(s) you know how to use it efficiently.

Yes, and no. In COD new players get a variety of loadouts to choose from. Heck, they get the "noob-toob" right off the bat, and there's a reason for it (good players can score points without it more efficiently, but this weapon lets new players score some points for their team). Battlefield does this a bit worse IMO (where a player can access every class, but later unlocks can be vastly superior to the starting equipment), but at the same time Battlefield has that whole "large battlefield, plenty of people" thing going for it, so it makes less of an impact on the outcome of a match if someone's lacking better gear.

There's no problem in HAVING different ships in CQC. The problem is that one starts with access to only one and absolutely no customization, as well as the fact that certain components (by your own admission) are clearly superior to others.

Honestly, get to rank 11 and you'll be fine.

If it's a case of rank 11+ being balanced vs ranks 10-, then why not match players of rank 1-10 only with others of said rank?

matemaster said:
fair PVP is utopia

So, you've never played Quake, Unreal Tournament, old COD games (before they added the whole level / perk thing) just to name a few?

sgurr · Nov 6, 2015

I think the upgrades are far less important than player skill and use of the environment/power-ups, even at level 1 it's possible to compete with far higher ranked players. My take is that the upgrades allow you to configure the ships to your play style, rather than being essential to compete. There are disadvantages to every upgrade I've played with.

I recommend Yodafone's cqc vid, there's a lot of good knowledge.

matemaster · Nov 6, 2015

Shaamaan said:
So, you've never played Quake, Unreal Tournament, old COD games (before they added the whole level / perk thing) just to name a few?

No

Anyway CQC rank doesnt represent skill of a player

Bzek · Nov 6, 2015

Tettric said:
Dude, the Condor is the best ship in CQC...

Came here to say this, and a few other people have commented the same in other threads. The stock rank 1 Condor is pretty much one of the best loadouts. You can unlock some perks to make it better, but it is relative. I don't go crazy for CQC and I am still pretty low rank, but I haven't felt in any match (some against really high ranking people) that I was outdone because of higher rank unlocks.

Ozram · Nov 6, 2015

Sadistic Intentions said:
"Shrug" Feel better now you got that off your chest do ya?
I actually think that CQC is a lot of fun and the rank badge bothers me not in the slightest.

Me too. If they ever get the matchmaking fixed up I'll play it more.

Makasuro · Nov 6, 2015

I've been a competitive player for about 20 years now and I have to say CQC is damn fair and balanced all around. You pretty much get everything you'd want for the Condor by rank 12, which can be achieved in like half an hour. The unlocks aren't what is killing you, it's the lack of experience and skill. Play more, get better, and quit complaining? Unlocks just let you modify your playstyle, they aren't "I WIN" buttons. They barely make a difference, and they usually have drawbacks of their own.

Shaamaan · Nov 6, 2015

Bzek said:
(...)but I haven't felt in any match (some against really high ranking people) that I was outdone because of higher rank unlocks.

I've watched Yodafone's video. He can boost a number of times in a row (giving him a LOT of agility, and I'm pretty sure it's not only a matter of pips in ENG), something the stock Condor cannot do. So there's one thing my untrained eye can spot, but I'm sure there are plenty more differences.

Makasuro said:
I've been a competitive player for about 20 years now and I have to say CQC is damn fair and balanced all around. You pretty much get everything you'd want for the Condor by rank 12, which can be achieved in like half an hour. The unlocks aren't what is killing you, it's the lack of experience and skill. Play more, get better, and quit complaining? Unlocks just let you modify your playstyle, they aren't "I WIN" buttons. They barely make a difference, and they usually have drawbacks of their own.

Read above. Heck, with my limited skill-set (yes, I don't deny that), I was having a lot more luck blasting rank 1 people with the Sidewinder (because I could survive someone shooting me in the back). But the point is - if it's not balanced around rank 1 (something you also confirm), then it's lack of balance will be off-putting.

tgarpestad · Nov 6, 2015

Shaamaan said:
I've watched Yodafone's video. He can boost a number of times in a row (giving him a LOT of agility), something the stock Condor cannot do. So there's one thing my untrained eye can spot, but I'm sure there are plenty more differences.

Get to rank 11 if you want to boost more often. It does not take a long time.

Bzek · Nov 6, 2015

tgarpestad said:
Get to rank 11 if you want to boost more often. It does not take a long time.

Yep. This doesn't take long at all to get. I have played very few matches and extremely casually and have it unlocked. I was still ranked Mostly Helpless and I had access to this module, if it gives you an idea of how early on you can get it.

Also bears mentioning that while it is nice, it does have a lower top-end speed while boosting. It is very nice to use, but it is not a huge gamechanger where you are completely crippled until you unlock it. The whole hour it might take to unlock it, that is.

Makasuro · Nov 6, 2015

Shaamaan said:
I've watched Yodafone's video. He can boost a number of times in a row (giving him a LOT of agility, and I'm pretty sure it's not only a matter of pips in ENG), something the stock Condor cannot do. So there's one thing my untrained eye can spot, but I'm sure there are plenty more differences.

Read above. Heck, with my limited skill-set (yes, I don't deny that), I was having a lot more luck blasting rank 1 people with the Sidewinder (because I could survive someone shooting me in the back). But the point is - if it's not balanced around rank 1 (something you also confirm), then it's lack of balance will be off-putting.

Honestly dude, you're being a care bear. I don't think arena type game modes are for you. I can't find any issues with the balance at this time other than wide skill gaps between players.