CQC Fair? I don't think so.

[SpitTheDog]

Hey, lets give the newbies ALL of the toys and as they get better we take them away one by one.

Yes it would be nice if we had a bit of choice at the beginning but it is soooo easy to rank up even if you lose then it isn't long before you start to get some stuff.

A stock Condor can easily get kills if you fly it right. Sure you will die if you hit a high ranked player that is also very skilled but hey, that's life.

Starting with nothing at the beginning combined with lack of experience (and maybe skill at first) can make things frustrating. More kit does not replace the last two by a long shot.

 

[Shaamaan]

Well, here's my further proof.

I unlocked the Eagle. I just played a game vs other low rank players - at best they were in Sidewinders (but I think one).

I ended the match with 12 kills and no deaths (TDM) and was the MVP. Was it fun? Yes. Was it fair? Hell no. The Eagle eats the stock Condor for breakfast, dinner and supper. Again, things might be more balanced later on when everyone's got their unlocks... but if said unlocks are required for a fair game, then why do they need to be unlocked?

 

[h347h]

Well, here's my further proof.

I unlocked the Eagle. I just played a game vs other low rank players - at best they were in Sidewinders (but I think one).

I ended the match with 12 kills and no deaths (TDM) and was the MVP. Was it fun? Yes. Was it fair? Hell no. The Eagle eats the stock Condor for breakfast, dinner and supper. Again, things might be more balanced later on when everyone's got their unlocks... but if said unlocks are required for a fair game, then why do they need to be unlocked?

Read this, then play CQC for a week when you actually get matched with players your skill level and get back to us. Playing out of your skill level while you re still in the adjustment phase of the MMR and trying to make fair assessments is silly.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

FYI I can melt Ealge pilots all day long in the stock Condor at a high MMR.

 

[Shaamaan]

Read this, then play CQC for a week when you actually get matched with players your skill level and get back to us. Playing out of your skill level while you re still in the adjustment phase of the MMR and trying to make fair assessments is silly.

Considering I mostly PvE in ED, don't play in Open and use a mouse+keyboard rather than a HOTAS I doubt my skill level is high. So chances are I WAS paired with similarly skilled people. And the Eagle made a huge difference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Where the hell did I state that I'm some skilled PvP player? All I wrote is that switching to the Eagle and playing vs stock Condors (and quite possibly similarly skilled people) made a huge difference, thus the perceived unfairness of CQC persists regardless if I'm on the winning or loosing side.

FYI I can melt Ealge pilots all day long in the stock Condor at a high MMR.

I kind of wonder, given that a quick glance over the forums regarding matchmaking, if you're not the one suffering from bias. How do you know said Eagle pilots weren't just vastly unskilled?

 

[tgarpestad]

Where the hell did I state that I'm some skilled PvP player? All I wrote is that switching to the Eagle and playing vs stock Condors (and quite possibly similarly skilled people) made a huge difference, thus the perceived unfairness of CQC persists regardless if I'm on the winning or loosing side.

Well. You are not playing against skilled players, and that is the problem. When a player is not skilled, he does not know how to counter the eagle. When the player becomes more skilled, he will learn how to better counter the eagle.

 

[Bzek]

I unlocked the Eagle. I just played a game vs other low rank players - at best they were in Sidewinders (but I think one).

Maybe you are good at flying the Eagle or played against really bad players.

I unlocked the Eagle, thought I'd be kicking ass, took it for a spin and did horribly. I tried a couple more times and just found it way worse than the Condor.

Since then I just fly the Condor.

*EDIT* In fact, quote from another thread:

At the moment, it seems that unless you in a Condor you going to get your ass handed to you. Anytime I try and use a sidewinder or eagle I finish last. Anytime I use the awesome Condor I finish in the top 3.

Source: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=194004

 

[Captain N]

So what exactly prevents you from just ranking up and unlocking all of the good stuff?

Anyone who's actually competitive in terms of skill would likely be someone who has played long enough to unlock everything.

At lower skill levels "balance" shouldn't be much of a concern since people aren't using their ships and upgrades to their full potential anyway.

 

[h347h]

Considering I mostly PvE in ED, don't play in Open and use a mouse+keyboard rather than a HOTAS I doubt my skill level is high. So chances are I WAS paired with similarly skilled people. And the Eagle made a huge difference.


Where the hell did I state that I'm some skilled PvP player? All I wrote is that switching to the Eagle and playing vs stock Condors (and quite possibly similarly skilled people) made a huge difference, thus the perceived unfairness of CQC persists regardless if I'm on the winning or loosing side.




I kind of wonder, given that a quick glance over the forums regarding matchmaking, if you're not the one suffering from bias. How do you know said Eagle pilots weren't just vastly unskilled?

Mouse and keyboard are the best controls for pvp FYI.

 

[Marcns007]

I had another go tonight and went from level 4 to 8 in 2 goes and didn't make progress in my last game.
It's just a bit of combat practice for me to try new things out, trying FA off.

I think it could do with similar ranked players in the same matches but you only improve by taking on players better than you.

 

[Beavis Tingleball]

as far as I can tell, Life is not a level playing field. the one thing that stands out about a player is his/her skills. when i started playing ED I was left handed but since no one makes a left hand hotas setup I had to adapt. no one sat back in cqc and waited for me to learn to fly.

 

[Red Dirt Nurse]

fair PVP is utopia

Fair PVP is an oxymoron

 

[Makasuro]

PVP will never be fair because of people... Some players will be better than you, and some won't. Games can mitigate this by lowering the skill ceiling, which makes games boring and shallow. Luckily, the skill ceiling is pretty high here.

 

[Nebohtes]

I'm pretty new to Elite: Dangerous, and only started CQC a few weeks ago (I don't get much game time, these days). I'm really enjoying CQC -- it's fast, fun and every time I play I get better (well, I crash a little less and avoid fire a little better, so I think that means better).

My first day on CQC was a long one. I think I played about 6 hours on a Saturday. I can't recall what rank I got to, but I think it was around 20 or so (it's basically a grind for rank, but, thankfully, a really fun grind). Even after a few weeks, it's a rare thing for me to win a match, and very often I get schooled the worst by pilots that are very low rank, with really, really high KDRs (I don't know if these are just really good natural pilots or game resets for better stats).

I was initially really disapointed in the unlocks (which you get a lot of after just a few matches). After the first few, I decided they were very good -- gain something, lose something. It is fun to try new unlocks out, but at the end of the day, most of the modules that really change play were available after an couple hours of play: they're more preference than power-ups, which, IMO, is just right.

I haven't changed anything on my ship in a while, and am pretty sure the ship I had around rank 20ish is the same ship I'll use 90% of the time going forward.

I get spanked by rank 1 pilots in the stock Condor all the time -- it's not even a surprise (I get more worried about rank 1-4 pilots than rank 50). At the same time, I can get really good matches against similarly ranked pilots where it feels like we're all really working for our points.

This is one of the best PvP games I've played in a very long time. The skill ceiling is very high ; every now and then you get an ace in the match and, regardless of load-out, they will destroy everyone with ease, which reminds me that I have a very, very long way to go.

As far as fair: the gear is fair. Unlocking it provides some customization and preferences to emerge, but the first 1% of your experience will unlock most options. Skill is another thing entirely; I really like matches where I get spanked bu pilots that out-skill me, because they're about to make me better at CQC.

 

[Makasuro]

Nebo, I wish everyone had that attitude. Most people complain when they get paired with higher skilled players, and here you are wanting to learn from them.

Much respect, commander. o7.

 

[Nebohtes]

I try to stay positive, but it's always the matches where I'm on the ropes that are the most intense; I won't lie -- CQC gets my blood moving, and often I die because I lost my cool.

On another note, I've noticed a lot of the player's that are giving me the most trouble are really low ranked pilots with KDRs up around 8.0; are there players resetting their accounts to get back to lower ranks to bypass the matchmaker and get into games?

 

[Makasuro]

I have no idea, but I take pride in lowering those K/D ratios when I see them.

 

[Corporatezombie]

I love CQC, only there don't appear to be many people playing it when I'm online, which means you can sit for a while waiting for a game and not get one.

I think the condor is the best ship by far and I love it, and you can do really well with the initial load-out in deathmatch. While an eagle is trying to pitch round to face you, you can be side-strafing and yawing and eating his shields for breakfast.
That said, I'm sure a well organised team of eagles covering each other could do well in the team games (team deathmatch, capture the flag), but in deathmatch they feel just too slow.

If anything makes this game "unfair" it would be, being up against someone experienced using oculus rift and HOTAS who can see exactly what you're doing and is out-manoeuvring you, while you tried to struggle to figure out what was going on with a keyboard your limited field of view, and your scanner. In that respect it is a bit "pay to win" but not in the traditional I paid to unlock the super-weapon sense!

 

[Makasuro]

There are definitely people playing it, it's just that their matchmaking system is suffering from numerous issues on the backend making it seem like no one is playing. I've been sitting in the queue at the same time as multiple twitch streams and none of us get into a game. Frontier hasn't said anything about it so my expectations of anything being done about it are very low.

The best ship in CQC is the condor until you meet a competent Eagle pilot with beams, then you'll have a really hard time in 1v1 dogfight. I'd still choose the Condor the Eagle 90% of the time, but I think the Eagle is overall the better ship in 1v1.