Patch Notes Update Server update

[Kancro Vantas]

You should be able to

Influence a faction for 5% in a day with 10 man hours.
Influence a faction for 10% in a day with 50 man hours.
Influence a faction for 15% in a day with 250 man hours.
Influence a faction for 20% in a day with 1000 man hours.

Currently missions do exactly nothing. We ran 50 missions in a low traffic system and the result was something like 0.1%.
The same can be achieved by a single commander running a few missions.

Additional effort currently does not get rewarded at all, and I don't think that is the right approach to take.
Having diminishing returns would be the right way.

I think this is too extreme. To need 1,000 people working coordinated on a day to change a 20%? Sounds too severe, IMHO.

Most groups are made of 50 people or less, if I go by your brackets. And even those groups with 1,000 players or more would rarely, if ever, muster enough organization to have 1,000 players working on a system for one day. I can't think of more than 5 groups being able to do that right now.

Is not like 20% influence is a HUGE swing, or the end game to a state. Provided that you started in a new system at 9%, you my friend are 61% away from provoking an insurrection.

If you are a group, like mine, of 6-8 cmdrs, then it would take us 13 days just to start a civil war, with all of us playing every single day.

 

[smiths121]

Hi _Flin_

In the thread "Fix the Background Simulator" a Cmdr altered influence by 10% by running 20 or so missions. Population appears to be a factor in 1.4, we have seen this - hard to affect our system with 100s of millions of population, but a lot easier for the smaller systems. I quite like this.

I see your saying. Alas "man hours" is not a measurement the game can really implement, but it is something we can easily perceive as players. Given the population affect, what size system and hoe do you see your figures scaling or reducing if at all by population?

Simon

You should be able to

Influence a faction for 5% in a day with 10 man hours.
Influence a faction for 10% in a day with 50 man hours.
Influence a faction for 15% in a day with 250 man hours.
Influence a faction for 20% in a day with 1000 man hours.

Currently missions do exactly nothing. We ran 50 missions in a low traffic system and the result was something like 0.1%.
The same can be achieved by a single commander running a few missions.

Additional effort currently does not get rewarded at all, and I don't think that is the right approach to take.
Having diminishing returns would be the right way.

 

[_Flin_]

Hi _Flin_

In the thread "Fix the Background Simulator" a Cmdr altered influence by 10% by running 20 or so missions. Population appears to be a factor in 1.4, we have seen this - hard to affect our system with 100s of millions of population, but a lot easier for the smaller systems. I quite like this.

Negative. Didn't happen after this server patch. We tested missions in multiple systems, ranging from 2k pop to 2 billion, and missions did never achieve more than 0.4%.

I see your saying. Alas "man hours" is not a measurement the game can really implement, but it is something we can easily perceive as players. Given the population affect, what size system and hoe do you see your figures scaling or reducing if at all by population?

Well, man hours is a good measurement to put all things influence into a basket.

I don't care to much about population effects.
The only things I care about is
- reasonable amount of time to influence a system (If it's a week of work to get to expansion levels, o.k.; if it is a month... not o.k.)
- if a group gets attacked it should have a chance to win. With the current cap the first mover wins. Not fun.

A group should have the possibility to win against another group by putting in more effort (or, of course, playing better).

Maximum amount per day should be something like 20%, requiring a huuuuuuge effort (if only in coordination).
15% should be possible for big groups.
10% should be possible for medium groups with a lot of effort. (50 man hours are 25 people playing 2 hours. So not exactly huge)
5% should be possible for small groups.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Negative. Didn't happen after this server patch. We tested missions in multiple systems, ranging from 2k pop to 2 billion, and missions did never achieve more than 0.4%.



Well, man hours is a good measurement to put all things influence into a basket.

I don't care to much about population effects.
The only things I care about is
- reasonable amount of time to influence a system (If it's a week of work to get to expansion levels, o.k.; if it is a month... not o.k.)
- if a group gets attacked it should have a chance to win. With the current cap the first mover wins. Not fun.

A group should have the possibility to win against another group by putting in more effort (or, of course, playing better).

Maximum amount per day should be something like 20%, requiring a huuuuuuge effort (if only in coordination).
15% should be possible for big groups.
10% should be possible for medium groups with a lot of effort. (50 man hours are 25 people playing 2 hours. So not exactly huge)
5% should be possible for small groups.

I actually don't agree, I think influence should be a slow process. I would be happy with a max of 1% a day. So in 30 days you can swing it by 30%. It should take time to do these things, not just a few days. It also means you don't have to grind out missions in the same place all the time, you can go elsewhere and do other things.

 

[Axle Reese]

Maximum amount per day should be something like 20%, requiring a huuuuuuge effort (if only in coordination).
15% should be possible for big groups.
10% should be possible for medium groups with a lot of effort. (50 man hours are 25 people playing 2 hours. So not exactly huge)
5% should be possible for small groups.

I have to agree with this approach. In our system we have not seen the influence levels move at all, not even a tenth of a percent since the latest patch was implemented. That is with 5-10 Cmdrs putting in at least 2 hours a day. At this point if we could get at least a 5% influence swing per day, I would be happy. As it is... we are about ready to quit until this gets fixed. It has totally killed the gameplay and enjoyment.

 

[Kancro Vantas]

Negative. Didn't happen after this server patch. We tested missions in multiple systems, ranging from 2k pop to 2 billion, and missions did never achieve more than 0.4%.

Well, man hours is a good measurement to put all things influence into a basket.

I don't care to much about population effects.
The only things I care about is
- reasonable amount of time to influence a system (If it's a week of work to get to expansion levels, o.k.; if it is a month... not o.k.)
- if a group gets attacked it should have a chance to win. With the current cap the first mover wins. Not fun.

A group should have the possibility to win against another group by putting in more effort (or, of course, playing better).

Hmm, I'm under the impression that every time a faction approaches one of the thresholds for the different states, said state shows up as pending, BUT the faction needs to maintain the effort at that level for a period of days -3 or 4- to trigger said state.

I thought this is how it is supposed to work -if I'm wrong, happy to be corrected.

In that scenario, and again, going from just expanded into a system to challenge the controlling faction, a stretch of 61%, after reaching the 70% you need to stay there for 3-4 days. As things were previously, for me and a couple of others cmdrs, getting up to that level in a system of 10 MM, was taking about 3 days to get to 70 and 4 more days holding it... 7 days before we could see CIVIL WAR in effect. Then we had to fight for 5 - 6 days, to finally get the reward of controlling the system.

Thats a full cycle in 13 days for 3-4 cmdrs playing 1-2hrs daily, and more so on the weekend. By no means I think this was happening too fast.

Also, I reckon I must be missing something: how come your faction gets notified of a pending war for at least three days, then a CW ensues for additional 4, and yet you "didn't have time to response to the threat"? That's a full week of you being able to change the course of things, imho.

Then again, I might be wrong on the pending state period.

Maximum amount per day should be something like 20%, requiring a huuuuuuge effort (if only in coordination).
15% should be possible for big groups.
10% should be possible for medium groups with a lot of effort. (50 man hours are 25 people playing 2 hours. So not exactly huge)
5% should be possible for small groups.

My problem with this model is that punishes small groups! True that the biiger the group they get the upper hand...but under this scenario, forget pending state, once a big group touches you, you are done because no matter what, you and your 3-4 pals will never be able to affect 15% - 20%..why bother with the war?

There needs to be a mechanism to allow for the Rebels to destroy the Death Star

 

[smiths121]

We have never managed to stop a civil war from triggering once pending. This includes reducing one of the sides by 25% influence in the 3 days of pending. YMMV though.
So my observations would differ to yours, in once we got the pending state - it was a case of preparing for it to happen.

As I said in a thread a month or so ago, a bigger group should have advantages of a smaller group, as they have more numbers.

My group can and would struggle to take control of a billions of population system now that population appears to have an affect. We focus on much smaller systems. Post 1.40, I have increased influence in a faction under "War" restrictions by 30% (flipping bug stopped us getting the station), the same effort in our 12M population system is negligible. It is about picking your opportunities. I think population affecting influence also allows different targets for large and small groups.

This is Elite not Star Wars, alas in Elite the rebel scum just get wiped out and the universe moves on as there was not enough of them, or the rebels win because the Empire was of playing beta, and then Darth Blue-Hair comes along and becomes the dominate power in the area with no way for the rebels to kick them out (ok I am getting bitter now!).

I think we can cope, and plan with where we are at the moment as a small group. Changes are a bit slower, but at least there is no sudden -52% influence drop for no apparent reason that was common for us towards the end of 1.3.

Simon

Hmm, I'm under the impression that every time a faction approaches one of the thresholds for the different states, said state shows up as pending, BUT the faction needs to maintain the effort at that level for a period of days -3 or 4- to trigger said state.

I thought this is how it is supposed to work -if I'm wrong, happy to be corrected.

In that scenario, and again, going from just expanded into a system to challenge the controlling faction, a stretch of 61%, after reaching the 70% you need to stay there for 3-4 days. As things were previously, for me and a couple of others cmdrs, getting up to that level in a system of 10 MM, was taking about 3 days to get to 70 and 4 more days holding it... 7 days before we could see CIVIL WAR in effect. Then we had to fight for 5 - 6 days, to finally get the reward of controlling the system.

Thats a full cycle in 13 days for 3-4 cmdrs playing 1-2hrs daily, and more so on the weekend. By no means I think this was happening too fast.

Also, I reckon I must be missing something: how come your faction gets notified of a pending war for at least three days, then a CW ensues for additional 4, and yet you "didn't have time to response to the threat"? That's a full week of you being able to change the course of things, imho.

Then again, I might be wrong on the pending state period.



My problem with this model is that punishes small groups! True that the biiger the group they get the upper hand...but under this scenario, forget pending state, once a big group touches you, you are done because no matter what, you and your 3-4 pals will never be able to affect 15% - 20%..why bother with the war?

There needs to be a mechanism to allow for the Rebels to destroy the Death Star

 

[Szyslak22]

Hmm, I'm under the impression that every time a faction approaches one of the thresholds for the different states, said state shows up as pending, BUT the faction needs to maintain the effort at that level for a period of days -3 or 4- to trigger said state.

I thought this is how it is supposed to work -if I'm wrong, happy to be corrected.

I don't know how this was originally intended to work, but that's not how it's been working. Once a state goes pending, it will become active after a set time unless blocked by a superseding state. Actions taken after the state goes pending will not prevent it from going active (or ensure it goes active).

For example, if two minor factions have matching influence after a tick, civil war will go pending for 3 days. You don't need to keep the influence matching for those 3 days in order to ensure conflict. Even if there are huge influence swings in those 3 days, the conflict will still happen.

P.S. Conflict threshold should be at 60% now, not 70%.

 

[_Flin_]

I actually don't agree, I think influence should be a slow process. I would be happy with a max of 1% a day. So in 30 days you can swing it by 30%. It should take time to do these things, not just a few days. It also means you don't have to grind out missions in the same place all the time, you can go elsewhere and do other things.

I accept the argument, but it is a realism argument, and i dont like these.

When it comes to games, they mainly should be fun.
Running missions for a month in one system is.... not fun.
Now if you give me multiple and innovative ways to game influence, attacks on stations, group fights, station assaults, unique missions, branching into a campaign that is system unique and engaging (like the Lugh war).... o.k., lets have it take a month. Then I agree.

The way the BGS work now? No thank you. Just grinding the same old same old? For 1 influekce a day? No thanks.

We turned 50 systems in 6 weeks before 1.4 hit. And still, the impact is hardly noticeable, with 20.000 inhabited systems.

There just isnt a fun game in the BGS when it takes a month to turn a system, and another to expand.



Edit: I think the best thing that could happen to the BGS woulf be an expansion cooldown of 1 day. That way minor factions could grow into little realms, and there'd be constant conflicts, alliances and assaults between player groups. Which would be cool.
And there are way enough systems to allow for it.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I accept the argument, but it is a realism argument, and i dont like these.

When it comes to games, they mainly should be fun.
Running missions for a month in one system is.... not fun.
Now if you give me multiple and innovative ways to game influence, attacks on stations, group fights, station assaults, unique missions, branching into a campaign that is system unique and engaging (like the Lugh war).... o.k., lets have it take a month. Then I agree.

The way the BGS work now? No thank you. Just grinding the same old same old? For 1 influekce a day? No thanks.

We turned 50 systems in 6 weeks before 1.4 hit. And still, the impact is hardly noticeable, with 20.000 inhabited systems.

There just isnt a fun game in the BGS when it takes a month to turn a system, and another to expand.

Thats the point. You don't have to grind the same old same old all the time. You can do other things as well instead of grinding missions to get your 15/20%. You will only need to do three or four missions a night which can be mixed in with other activities. Sounds good to me.

Also what is the point in flipping 50 systems in 6 weeks. It makes sound like it was easy. It took us months to flip Lugh, but that was the point. It made actually mean something, there was a lot of effort put in and I felt like I had hepled achieved something. Yes its only one system, so what. it felt great and that is what is important.

 

[Kancro Vantas]

Thats the point. You don't have to grind the same old same old all the time. You can do other things as well instead of grinding missions to get your 15/20%. You will only need to do three or four missions a night which can be mixed in with other activities. Sounds good to me.

Hmm I agree with Flin. I understand your point that allows for more variety, but at what cost?? reaching your goal in a month or two?? Hell no! Thank you but not thanks, rather be bored grinding 4-6 days than a whole month of "ELITE" variety with a pinch of BGS in its place!

What's would be next? Have the tick happen once every two weeks, because, you know, is not like much is going to be moving...

The reason why took you months and months to take Lugh was due to a series of bugs, unintentended and untested mechanism in the BGS. Lugh took time because it was a test, but I doubt that we all fought on oferboy's and roybe side just to have to suffer a similar ordeal every time we flip a system.

Quite the opposite, we all fought to add to the test, and make it work right, so we could come back to our system and now be able to apply the changes with all that was learnt during Lugh Independence. Yes, you felt great, and we all did, but there shoudln't be another Lugh, not if Lugh mattered, not if Lugh really did change things for us all in the Galaxy and the BGS.

 

[_Flin_]

Thats the point. You don't have to grind the same old same old all the time. You can do other things as well instead of grinding missions to get your 15/20%. You will only need to do three or four missions a night which can be mixed in with other activities. Sounds good to me.

Also what is the point in flipping 50 systems in 6 weeks. It makes sound like it was easy. It took us months to flip Lugh, but that was the point. It made actually mean something, there was a lot of effort put in and I felt like I had hepled achieved something. Yes its only one system, so what. it felt great and that is what is important.

Whats important to me is that the game is enjoyable.

I was in Lugh as well, in the beginning.

But the game has evolved. Lugh brought us the civil war trigger at 70%. Since then we have
- loads of bigs removed
- cooldown mechanics overhauled
- additional states
- NPCs reflecting states
- 170 Player group minor factions
- reduced cooldowns
- multiple conflicts in one system
- multiple balances and rebalances

The BGS is almost ready to shine.
The cap mechanism needs to be tuned, and then it is ready.
We needed 1.5 months for our first station, 2 for our first system. But that was then.

The game has moved on. Now it is about oprimizing control and exploited systems.
Expanding into empty systems.
Strategically forming the playing area to allow for grabbing the systems of your choice for your own minor factions.

And about getting in conflicts with other player groups, sooner or later.

The mechanics now allow for targeted campaigns against specific systems... e.g. Achenar.

We want to play that. Getting one system was in January. The game has evolved, and so have we, our organization, our tools, our strategies.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Hmm I agree with Flin. I understand your point that allows for more variety, but at what cost?? reaching your goal in a month or two?? Hell no! Thank you but not thanks, rather be bored grinding 4-6 days than a whole month of "ELITE" variety with a pinch of BGS in its place!

What's would be next? Have the tick happen once every two weeks, because, you know, is not like much is going to be moving...

The reason why took you months and months to take Lugh was due to a series of bugs, unintentended and untested mechanism in the BGS. Lugh took time because it was a test, but I doubt that we all fought on oferboy's and roybe side just to have to suffer a similar ordeal every time we flip a system.

Quite the opposite, we all fought to add to the test, and make it work right, so we could come back to our system and now be able to apply the changes with all that was learnt during Lugh Independence. Yes, you felt great, and we all did, but there shoudln't be another Lugh, not if Lugh mattered, not if Lugh really did change things for us all in the Galaxy and the BGS.

I agree to a point, maybe I was being a bit harsh at 1% a day. I still think 20% is far too much though so maybe an upper limit of 5-10% would be better, would still take some time, but no too much. You wouldn't be able to flip 50 systems in 6 weeks, which I think is far too much and makes it far too easy. With the addition of Horizons coming out, hopefully it will make this more interesting when it comes to the BGS and it isn't just catered for PP.

I agree that Lugh did take too long, but I don't want see it all happening in a week either, it should be an effort to flip a system not just grinding missions for a few days. I still want it to be an achievement, not just something we can do whenever because its easy.

 

[Szyslak22]

I agree to a point, maybe I was being a bit harsh at 1% a day. I still think 20% is far too much though so maybe an upper limit of 5-10% would be better, would still take some time, but no too much. You wouldn't be able to flip 50 systems in 6 weeks, which I think is far too much and makes it far too easy.

Even with a 5% limit, you'd still be able to do it with a large, dedicated, and well organized group effort. Which, coincidentally, is how it happened the first time. No one said it was easy or didn't require a lot of effort.

btw, I think a limit of 10 - 15% a day is reasonable, but it should take a big effort to move it that much. I also think the amount of effort needed for that change should be dependent on the size of the system.

As Flin said, I don't think they're far off from having it working well. Just needs some more balancing and better communication when they change something.

HOPEFULLY, they'll do a better job of coordinating the testing in 1.5 beta and Horizons beta. You know, with some actual guidance on what should be tested. Not just: "go play and tell us what you see". The 1.4 beta test was poorly done, and the BGS was a giant mess when 1.4 was released as a result. They need to properly use the willing community of testers available to them.

 

[Kancro Vantas]

I agree to a point, maybe I was being a bit harsh at 1% a day. I still think 20% is far too much though so maybe an upper limit of 5-10% would be better, would still take some time, but no too much. You wouldn't be able to flip 50 systems in 6 weeks, which I think is far too much and makes it far too easy. With the addition of Horizons coming out, hopefully it will make this more interesting when it comes to the BGS and it isn't just catered for PP.

I agree that Lugh did take too long, but I don't want see it all happening in a week either, it should be an effort to flip a system not just grinding missions for a few days. I still want it to be an achievement, not just something we can do whenever because its easy.

After having established myself in ELEU early January, to the date, I have pushed my minor faction thru exactly three expansions. Granted, I spent over 3 months out on an exploration but a partner of mine remained back watching the systems and working them.

In this 10 months period: first expansion happened to next door system, then we fought in Lugh, then we came back and entered the first War, we won it, then we lost all 4 stations of our controlling faction on one single Civil War against Fed NPC's in our capital system, then the crazy swings in Santjalan would trigger minor civil wars to no end, then we were on the verge of the civil war to retake the capital when we were hit by the Plague, and had to run the CG, for two consecutive weeks in order to have it reopened, then we had our second expansion, and then resumed the efforts for the capital; we finally had triggered the CW, and we won it, just to have the no flipping bug that denied us the change of station, and it took us two more weeks to trigger our fourth expansion. After 6 months fighting, the update of last Thursday finally gave us the control of the capital, but we still need to now fight for the other 3 stations that were taken from us in one single war...and now, we have to deal with moving yet slower, and have things happening harder...

During the registration process for our faction, FD told us that if we wanted to change name to a more fitting "Explorer's Nation", we would lose all of the systems but the Capital. Exactly 1 second after reading that answer, the ridiculously long name of Social Eleu Progressive Party started to sound like the most perfect, and fittingly name for an Exploration Group, because there was no way in Hell and Heaven that I was going to risk having to do it all over again!!!

Now, of all 170 minor factions out there -most of them just starting to even realize there is a BGS- how many exactly did you say are flipping 50 systems in 6 weeks??? I mean, some people come to the forums to drop some big achievements with a conceited and condescending tone on how the BGS works and how it should be played. When I read such statements, I either take them with a whole bag of salt , or I convince myself that we are effectively playing two different games.

So let me be clear and very emphatic when I say that the BGS has been all but easy for me or my group! It might not have been Lugh but darn right we had suffered quite a battering out there.

So, sorry gents if I take issue or i fail to see how this whole process should be harder or take longer, because it has been none of those things at all for me! Very different picture indeed. Achievement you said? Even getting promoted in my RL work and office it's been easier than the BGS, I must say! lol

 

[TheSpaceTexan]

I actually don't agree, I think influence should be a slow process. I would be happy with a max of 1% a day. So in 30 days you can swing it by 30%. It should take time to do these things, not just a few days. It also means you don't have to grind out missions in the same place all the time, you can go elsewhere and do other things.

This right here, does not equate to fun and emergent gameplay.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Maybe. I'm open so not totally against the idea. I really hope they expand the BGS. It should of been what PowerPlay is in my opinion, with built up player factions dukeing it out with each other. Much better than PowerPlay in it current form.

 

[KakerMix]

If the argument is 'realism' in regards to the BGS then why not we add a bit of slow down to everything else? Maybe we make it so repairing the hull of your ship take days or weeks rather than instantly. Same with loading cargo, make it take a few hours rather than instantly. It's realistic after all.

The combined time-sink aspect of the BGS and the complete lack of real-time feedback turns a whole lot of people off from dealing with it in any capacity, which is bad for everyone.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

After having established myself in ELEU early January, to the date, I have pushed my minor faction thru exactly three expansions. Granted, I spent over 3 months out on an exploration but a partner of mine remained back watching the systems and working them.

In this 10 months period: first expansion happened to next door system, then we fought in Lugh, then we came back and entered the first War, we won it, then we lost all 4 stations of our controlling faction on one single Civil War against Fed NPC's in our capital system, then the crazy swings in Santjalan would trigger minor civil wars to no end, then we were on the verge of the civil war to retake the capital when we were hit by the Plague, and had to run the CG, for two consecutive weeks in order to have it reopened, then we had our second expansion, and then resumed the efforts for the capital; we finally had triggered the CW, and we won it, just to have the no flipping bug that denied us the change of station, and it took us two more weeks to trigger our fourth expansion. After 6 months fighting, the update of last Thursday finally gave us the control of the capital, but we still need to now fight for the other 3 stations that were taken from us in one single war...and now, we have to deal with moving yet slower, and have things happening harder...

During the registration process for our faction, FD told us that if we wanted to change name to a more fitting "Explorer's Nation", we would lose all of the systems but the Capital. Exactly 1 second after reading that answer, the ridiculously long name of Social Eleu Progressive Party started to sound like the most perfect, and fittingly name for an Exploration Group, because there was no way in Hell and Heaven that I was going to risk having to do it all over again!!!

Now, of all 170 minor factions out there -most of them just starting to even realize there is a BGS- how many exactly did you say are flipping 50 systems in 6 weeks??? I mean, some people come to the forums to drop some big achievements with a conceited and condescending tone on how the BGS works and how it should be played. When I read such statements, I either take them with a whole bag of salt , or I convince myself that we are effectively playing two different games.

So let me be clear and very emphatic when I say that the BGS has been all but easy for me or my group! It might not have been Lugh but darn right we had suffered quite a battering out there.

So, sorry gents if I take issue or i fail to see how this whole process should be harder or take longer, because it has been none of those things at all for me! Very different picture indeed. Achievement you said? Even getting promoted in my RL work and office it's been easier than the BGS, I must say! lol

Ere, why are you directing this at me. I have never said anything about making it harder, I just don't want to see it get easy.

Also it depends what you want out of the BGS. I have bolded the story you have on your reply as that sounds like a great story. It may not be exactly what you were trying to achieve, but that's the point. There is a whole story in what happened with you guys. To me the BGS is not there for us to control, but to be a part of, nudge it, push it in the direction we want it to go and let the story write itself. If what we tried wasn't a success, that is part of the story. What were the repercussions, where did you go wrong, what do you do next etc.

Hopefully the gameplay itself will become more interesting and inject some soul/feeling in to what you do.

 

[_Flin_]

Now, of all 170 minor factions out there -most of them just starting to even realize there is a BGS- how many exactly did you say are flipping 50 systems in 6 weeks??? I mean, some people come to the forums to drop some big achievements with a conceited and condescending tone on how the BGS works and how it should be played. When I read such statements, I either take them with a whole bag of salt , or I convince myself that we are effectively playing two different games.

I do not intend to sound " conceited and condescending" or tell anyone how the game should be played. From your reports it is clear that you have suffered all the frustration that happens to every group playing the BGS. Your achievements are astounding, and when I am talking about the number of systems AEDC has flipped it is not meant to belittle any of it. What we have done is due to an approach that is different to other groups. Our own minor faction isnt a lot bigger than yours. It's only that as a group dedicated to the Alliance as a whole we search for systems with an Alliance minor faction and turn it. The effort to do so was minimal in 1.3. Run a few missions and trigger civil war, run a few more to win it. As every system switching to the Alliance is a success for us, we play with a way higher number of potential target systems than groups that only care about their systems.

So yes, we are indeed playing 2 different games. Noone but us cares about flipping some backwater systems to a major faction.

So let me be clear and very emphatic when I say that the BGS has been all but easy for me or my group! It might not have been Lugh but darn right we had suffered quite a battering out there.

We have adopted multiple systems and factions early this year because we repeatedly got stopped dead in our tracks by bugs or disadvantageous states preventing progress.

Our main faction is currently in 5 systems and our current expansion, due right now, has been stopped dead in it's tracks because we need to gain 20% to trigger it. We managed one or two percent every day, with quite some effort. We dont own all stations in our systems, and actually had a plan to change that when the station flipping bug stopped this.

So, sorry gents if I take issue or i fail to see how this whole process should be harder or take longer, because it has been none of those things at all for me! Very different picture indeed. Achievement you said? Even getting promoted in my RL work and office it's been easier than the BGS, I must say! lol

I am on the same side as you are. The BGS should just work. And flipping a system and taking a station should take longer than in 1.3, but not forever. 5-10% influence changes a day would be great.

In 1.3. Our main faction in our main system had an average change of 20% over a month. Due to mining and smuggling missions being unbalanced. We dont want that back.

But not being able to meaningfully push a system, even with 10-20 commanders working on it, is a no go for us.