Player pirates asking to "abandon" cargo

[Arubeto]

When I was interdicted by player pirates the last time, I was asked to "abandon" my cargo (or at least the amount they demanded), instead of jettisoning it, so it wouldn't be marked "stolen". Since I didn't want to be blown up I complied, but thinking about it now, I should have used normal jettisoning. (in this particular case, I couldn't run, because my T9s max boost speed is 192 and high waking would have taken too long (the three interdicting clippers got my shields down in mere seconds) and I am not one to "combat log")

IMHO, if players decide to play as pirates, they decide to steal cargo from other players, hence should have to deal with stolen cargo.

I don't know if the pirates who interdicted me would have shot me to pieces if I hadn't agreed to "abandon" my cargo, but I can imagine they would have.

What is the established community opinion on this matter? Should a - real - pirate accept cargo marked as stolen, or is he in the right to demand "clean" cargo and to destroy his victim if that victim doesn't comply to "abandon" his cargo?

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

Pirates can demand whatever they want. It is up to you to decide whether to do what they demand, or not. If I were a pirate, it sounds like a perfectly reasonable request.

What is of slightly more interest is when they know that you have abandoned rather than jettisoned. I assume they know when they have scooped the first one and looked in their cargo. Can they find out earlier? It would be difficult for them to hold you there while they checked, unless there was more than one pirate ship, in which case I would just do what they asked.

 

[Brujah]

When I was interdicted by player pirates the last time, I was asked to "abandon" my cargo (or at least the amount they demanded), instead of jettisoning it, so it wouldn't be marked "stolen". Since I didn't want to be blown up I complied, but thinking about it now, I should have used normal jettisoning. (in this particular case, I couldn't run, because my T9s max boost speed is 192 and high waking would have taken too long (the three interdicting clippers got my shields down in mere seconds) and I am not one to "combat log")

IMHO, if players decide to play as pirates, they decide to steal cargo from other players, hence should have to deal with stolen cargo.

I don't know if the pirates who interdicted me would have shot me to pieces if I hadn't agreed to "abandon" my cargo, but I can imagine they would have.

What is the established community opinion on this matter? Should a - real - pirate accept cargo marked as stolen, or is he in the right to demand "clean" cargo and to destroy his victim if that victim doesn't comply to "abandon" his cargo?

It doesn't make logical sense. If you've been forced to give up your cargo, then it's stolen regardless of what button you press to provide it. That the game doesn't recognise that is a failing of the game.

It would make sense to me that the option to 'Abandon' cargo simply doesn't appear if you've been interdicted.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Maybe these Disney pirates are too scared to smuggle their goods into stations.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

imo you cant blame the players for this, it is down to the game.

in real life bank robbers tend to shoot people if they see them pressing the silent alarm, and get stroppy if they find people smuggling ink packs into money bags.

It is the game which needs to stop this imo, and 1 solution i can think of is even if we jetison (not abandon) cargo, it takes a couple of mins before the pirate can tell either way if the loot is hot or not, allowing the "victim" to have made their escape. just bear in mind, it would well put you on a KOS list from the more organised muggars.

 

[goemon]

the feature (to abandon cargo) is great. if someone would pirate me on a cg, i would happily abandon cargo - whoever brings that cargo to the station, highers the tiers reached.

 

[Brujah]

imo you cant blame the players for this, it is down to the game.

in real life bank robbers tend to shoot people if they see them pressing the silent alarm, and get stroppy if they find people smuggling ink packs into money bags.

It is the game which needs to stop this imo, and 1 solution i can think of is even if we jetison (not abandon) cargo, it takes a couple of mins before the pirate can tell either way if the loot is hot or not, allowing the "victim" to have made their escape. just bear in mind, it would well put you on a KOS list from the more organised muggars.

This would also work. Allow you to undermine the pirate if you choose.

 

[Marra Morgan]

Should a - real - pirate accept cargo marked as stolen, or is he in the right to demand "clean" cargo and to destroy his victim if that victim doesn't comply to "abandon" his cargo?

Y'know in the films where the criminals demand money in "unmarked bills"?
I think it's a bit like that - they don't want their ill-gotten gains to be traceable.

They're well within their rights to demand it and the victim has every right to refuse it... but as a wise man once said, "A person only has the rights they can hold on to"

 

[Deleted member 38366]

The Pirates around CGs frequently contribute their loot onto it - which is a win-win for both sides, as the tons don't get lost to some Black Market.
To the Player losing it, it makes no difference in itself anyway - the Cargo will be gone one way or another. Knowing that it'll still make it into the CG I always percieved as a good thing.

A good Motto to live by in CGs : Cherish the Pirates - loathe the Gankers.

Chances are, the Pirates will try to take care of any Gankers blowing up the Traders that otherwise "let the spice flow" - which is the biggest possible Win-Win once you realize what that is actually worth especially when you fly around in a Type-9.
After seeing that myself in the 1st Kaushpoos CG, I even made detours to take some Low Supply Palladium/Beryllium/Gold onboard so I could toss them some better stuff for their efforts to keep the System clean of mindless Gankers.

 

[Arubeto]

Pirates can demand whatever they want. It is up to you to decide whether to do what they demand, or not. If I were a pirate, it sounds like a perfectly reasonable request.

I am not questioning their "right" to demand whatever they want, but since there seems to be some common understanding that pirates should steal from players instead just blowing them up, I thought there might be a similar common understanding - a pirates "Code", if you will - about the abandon vs. jettison topic.

What is of slightly more interest is when they know that you have abandoned rather than jettisoned. I assume they know when they have scooped the first one and looked in their cargo. Can they find out earlier? It would be difficult for them to hold you there while they checked, unless there was more than one pirate ship, in which case I would just do what they asked.

AFAIK, it's marked as "illegal haulage" as soon as I jettison it, which they can see on their HUD without having to scoop it up. It's the same way every canister of "grain" in an "Salvageable Wreckage" is marked "illegal" as soon as you target it.

 

[Wasp0]

.............................................

in real life bank robbers tend to shoot people if they see them pressing the silent alarm, and get stroppy if they find people smuggling ink packs into money bags.

.........................................

Wow!!!!.................. Where do you live? East of the Atlantic or West of the Atlantic?

In UK, we have VERY VERY Few 'Armed Robberies' and Even fewer actual 'Armed Robbery Shootings'

 

[Arubeto]

It doesn't make logical sense. If you've been forced to give up your cargo, then it's stolen regardless of what button you press to provide it. That the game doesn't recognise that is a failing of the game.

It would make sense to me that the option to 'Abandon' cargo simply doesn't appear if you've been interdicted.

That's my point. Since I am given the option to hand over my cargo willingly, the pirates have the option to demand "clean" cargo, which is inappropriate, IMHO.

But since we have this system now, my question is if there is one "established" way - similar to the unofficial rule not to blow up victims as a pirate without reason - how pirates should act in this situation.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Wow!!!!.................. Where do you live? East of the Atlantic or West of the Atlantic?

In UK, we have VERY VERY Few 'Armed Robberies' and Even fewer actual 'Armed Robbery Shootings'

lol true... I glean all my info from American Crime Dramas. I am in UK, currently a few miles from FD Towers (aka Cambridge Science Park so not really a hot bed of villainy scum )

 

[Brujah]

That's my point. Since I am given the option to hand over my cargo willingly, the pirates have the option to demand "clean" cargo, which is inappropriate, IMHO.

But since we have this system now, my question is if there is one "established" way - similar to the unofficial rule not to blow up victims as a pirate without reason - how pirates should act in this situation.

I guess you'd have to wait for a pirate to answer that one. Given you just got interdicted by three who were willing to go through the process, but didn't respect your wish for them to receive actual 'stolen' cargo, I'd guess there is not.

Greedy, selfish pirates, huh? Who'dathunkit?

 

[Arubeto]

I feel I need to clarify something: I am not complaining about being pirated at all. If they act as pirates and demand cargo instead of shooting me to pieces without a reason it's a very exhilarating and immersive experience - I am fine with this from a RP point of view.

My question is not about complaining, it's just if there is a common agreement how pirates should act in the abandon/jettison situation.

What I get from the answers so far is that there is no such common understanding - and that the game mechanics might be lacking in this aspect, since they let you jettison "clean" cargo when being robbed.

Mikes proposal about cargo not showing if it is stolen or not for a few minutes sounds fine, but I'd imagine pirates would just adept and ask the trader not to leave until they have verified the cargo isn't marked as stolen. It would be cool, though, if there would be a certain chance that security forces arrive at the scene - depending on the system security level - before the pirates can determine if the cargo is marked or not - so they'd have to decide from case to case if it was worth the risk to wait or not.

 

[Cmdr Centurian1225]

Unfortunately there are no more gentleman highwaymen and you just have to conform. I think that yes they should except stolen cargo but who are you to argue in a type 9 better to just do as you are told or log off.

 

[Arubeto]

I guess you'd have to wait for a pirate to answer that one. Given you just got interdicted by three who were willing to go through the process, but didn't respect your wish for them to receive actual 'stolen' cargo, I'd guess there is not.

Greedy, selfish pirates, huh? Who'dathunkit?

To be fair, I didn't ask them if they'd accept "stolen" cargo, too. Seemed clear they wouldn't since they explicitly asked for "abandoned" cargo.

But again, player pirates that are after the cargo and not after a cheap kill make for exciting experiences, even from a traders RP point of view - I am totally ok with being robbed (this sounds so wrong ), but I think pirates should always have to deal with "hot" cargo after a successful pirating run - would make sense from a pirates RP point of view!

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Mikes proposal about cargo not showing if it is stolen or not for a few minutes sounds fine, but I'd imagine pirates would just adept and ask the trader not to leave until they have verified the cargo isn't marked as stolen. It would be cool, though, if there would be a certain chance that security forces arrive at the scene - depending on the system security level - before the pirates can determine if the cargo is marked or not - so they'd have to decide from case to case if it was worth the risk to wait or not.

a good point, and the risk/reward of the police could be considered cool gameplay..... The alternative could be the emergency "stolen" beacon only activates 30s AFTER the player has jumped out of the instance (or the player starts the 30 second countdown on the stolen tag whilst their drive is charging

 

[Brujah]

Both would work okay, but I don't think the trader's going to appreciate being made to wait for several minutes whilst the Pirate checks, whether or not there's a chance of backup arriving. That's eating into his overheads!

 

[Miklos Atreides]

Well, as already said above Pirates are demanding. You follow or even not. But I'd like to have options if they demand 'Abandon' the cargo just like having a few 'Fake' cannisters
Showing 'Palladium' on the label but only scrap inside. (Or maybe a ticking time bomb with a 5 minutes counter ).
When they will see what you are leaving behind I am not fully sure but I think, you see it when targeting the thing to scoop up. In my opinion too early, they should see it, when
scooping is complete. Or better 6 minutes later. (when the time bomb already blasted)

Regards,
Miklos