Powerplay Pirates in Powerplay

[Etherimp]

If the game wishes to cater to the PvP and hardcore experience perhaps space sim fans should go play EVE ?

Because Eve and Elite Dangerous have completely different Combat mechanics.

Better question is.. Why not go play Star Citizen instead? And, if FDev is not careful, that is exactly what will happen.. People will just ditch this game to play Star Citizen, and Open as a community will be dead.

Keep in mind, I don't like Star Citizen and would much rather see Elite improve in this area, than be forced to Star Citizen if I want to experience good PvP.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Because Eve and Elite Dangerous have completely different Combat mechanics.

Right - agreed - people want to fly their space ships not point/click. That doesn't mean they necessarily want to play against other players - was you around for the KS when FD announced "play how you want" ? Well, many wish to play solo or in groups - Mobius's 14,000 pilots is a testament to that fact.

Why not go play Star Citizen instead?

Ermm - it's not out yet ?! :S

And, if FDev is not careful, that is exactly what will happen.. People will just ditch this game to play Star Citizen, and Open as a community will be dead.

Keep in mind, I don't like Star Citizen and would much rather see Elite improve in this area, than be forced to Star Citizen if I want to experience good PvP.

Yes, 100% agree that if SC is released that some players will leave for it. No argument here. Equally some will leave and come back. As well as some not interested in the slightest. (I might play it if it's ever released ... who knows )

No, if SC is released open won't become dead - if the hardcore PvP players leave then perhaps all the "cowardly" solo/group players may rejoin open

As for wanting a good PvP experience - if that means combat against other players and it's the only thing you want then I suspect you will always be disappointed.

 

[Etherimp]

Right - agreed - people want to fly their space ships not point/click. That doesn't mean they necessarily want to play against other players - was you around for the KS when FD announced "play how you want" ? Well, many wish to play solo or in groups - Mobius's 14,000 pilots is a testament to that fact.


Ermm - it's not out yet ?! :S



Yes, 100% agree that if SC is released that some players will leave for it. No argument here. Equally some will leave and come back. As well as some not interested in the slightest. (I might play it if it's ever released ... who knows )

No, if SC is released open won't become dead - if the hardcore PvP players leave then perhaps all the "cowardly" solo/group players may rejoin open

As for wanting a good PvP experience - if that means combat against other players and it's the only thing you want then I suspect you will always be disappointed.

I'm only disappointed in the size of the community. Not the quality. There are some very good and very cool people doing PvP in Open. Just not as many as there could/should be.

 

[glojo]

Read the OP again - apparently people who are in solo/group are cowards, bullies, lack skill and should come meet the "real" players

The game is only poorly designed because your focus is PvP - understand ? For those who don't care for confrontations between players the game is perfectly fine. (Other than IMO PP being somewhat lacking)

PLEASE, please take my post in the context it was wrote.... I started this thread talking about pirates and because of the lack of response.... It drifted onto the Powerplay aspect of this game...

Full stop

Your references regarding the cowards, bullies, lack of skill etc ONLY APPLIES to what might be termed 'griefers'??? I have NO idea of the correct terminology but I stand by every word of the desrciption for those players that think they are so called brave or clever when they interdict or attack unarmed trade ships but the instant they meet a combat player they combat log... They are indeed cowards, bullies and probably lack the skills required to take on someone that can defend themselves. Now please note the following... I might disagree with the stance of the so called pirates but I respect those that fight in open and NOT combat log. They are certainly NOT cowards, bullies and DEFINITELY, most definitely NNOT lacking the skills to play their role (Much respect)

Now back to Powerplay
WHY, oh why are folks continually trying to say we are talking about PVP when we are being critical of this crazy arrangement?? It has very little in theory to do with PVP play. I personally could not care less whether I fight or not... If I am in a trade ship running supplies then I might opt to run away. All we want is to play this game where we have a level playing field.

I keep asking the question about how we can prevent anyone by undermining us by the capped 3% when we cannot see them? It is a simple question

If we cannot see who is undermining us then please explain what is the point of me earning the capped 3% Again a very simple question

In a boxing match would you blindfold the opponent and what is the difference between that and open play fighting solo or private?

The answer to me is simple
The blindfolded boxer has a chance of hitting his opponent.

I have no chance of improving my influence if my opponents reach that capped 3%

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

I keep asking the question about how we can prevent anyone by undermining us by the capped 3% when we cannot see them? It is a simple question

Already answered - You CANT due to the nature of the game.

- You can't see XBOX players.
- You probably can't see me (time zone difference)
- You probably won't be grouped with me (due to instance issues and my internet connection)

You simply do what you can ...

 

[Etherimp]

Already answered - You CANT due to the nature of the game.

- You can't see XBOX players.
- You probably can't see me (time zone difference)
- You probably won't be grouped with me (due to instance issues and my internet connection)

You simply do what you can ...

Sigh.. Your argument is invalid, I'm sorry.

1. You will see other people in your timezone, if in open.. NOT if in PR/SOLO
2. Xbox will see other xbox players, if in open. NOT if in PR/Solo
3. Instancing issues are not *nearly* as bad as people make out, except for in cases of very large groups of players. If I am in a system with a wing of 3 players, and another player attempts to jump into system, the odds are about 90% that he will land in the same system as us assuming it's the only currently active instance for that system, and ping times aren't astronomical.

 

[Robert Maynard]

It's very possible they do make up the majority of the player base. If you limited their impact on PP while in Private/Solo, then they may consider coming to Open, where they can better interact with the community at large. I don't see how or why encouraging player-interaction, cooperation, and organization is so frowned upon. After all, Elite Dangerous FORCES you to be online to play the game. If the game wishes to cater to the single-player and small group experience, many Space-sim fans might as well go play the X series.

Encouraging player interaction, co-operation and organisation is great - trying to force it is not. The game already caters to the single player and small group - with Solo and Private Groups.

League of Legends, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, DOTA, etc. If you look at the games with the longest and most sustained success over the course of a decade, it's the games which have a thriving online community and player-interaction that do well and maintain their status.

How many of those games have dedicated PvE servers (the equivalent of an Open-PvE mode that some players have been campaigning for)?

It's not selfish to want everyone to play in Open. What's selfish is a large swath of people opting out of Open play because they can grind away merits and credits in solo/private where they are not challenged to become better players or to interact with the community at large.

Did you really mean to infer that it is selfish for players to "play the game how you want to" - as every player has been encouraged to by Frontier themselves? Given that (fairly obviously) not all players want to play in Open play - to "want everyone to play in Open" is therefore a bit selfish....

 

[Etherimp]

Encouraging player interaction, co-operation and organisation is great - trying to force it is not. The game already caters to the single player and small group - with Solo and Private Groups.

I don't want FD to "force" Open play on anyone. I want solo-play and Private-group to NOT impact Open-play Power-play #'s.. I couldn't care less if they mindlessly grind away merits for 50,000,000 in private as long as it isn't hurting the Open player base who has no way of reaching out to these people and discouraging poor decisions or enlightening them on their ignorance.

How many of those games have dedicated PvE servers (the equivalent of an Open-PvE mode that some players have been campaigning for).

Not many. WoW does. Eve Online does not. CSGO has private servers, but your stats in private servers do not carry over to your matchmaking stats or anything else.

Did you really mean to infer that it is selfish for players to "play the game how you want to" - as every player has been encouraged to by Frontier themselves? Given that (fairly obviously) not all players want to play in Open play - to "want everyone to play in Open" is therefore a bit selfish....

People "playing the game how they want" is all fine and good, as long as they aren't hurting others. As I said - If they want to explore/trade/bounty-hunt to their hearts content, I am fine with that. I have a problem with people selectively choosing to go to Private group in order to avoid confrontation and giving themselves an unfair advantage over power-play groups which strictly play Open.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Sigh.. Your argument is invalid, I'm sorry.

I believe it is valid - the point I was making is this:

As a PC player you have zero control over what the XBOX crowd do. They will either be helping you (indirectly) or hindering. Their game time contributes towards PP in just the same way yours does.

The same applies for solo / group. Some people will be helping you (indirectly) and some working against you.

There is no difference between these groups/solo players and the XBOX crowd.

Unless of course PP should only be for open-PvP players ? Is that what you're advocating ?

 

[Etherimp]

I believe it is valid - the point I was making is this:

As a PC player you have zero control over what the XBOX crowd do. They will either be helping you (indirectly) or hindering. Their game time contributes towards PP in just the same way yours does.

The same applies for solo / group. Some people will be helping you (indirectly) and some working against you.

There is no difference between these groups/solo players and the XBOX crowd.

Unless of course PP should only be for open-PvP players ? Is that what you're advocating ?

yes.. there is.

I can coordinate with Xbox crews, we just can't share the same instance.

Xbox crews can be interdicted and shot down by other xbox pilots.

Private groups cannot.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

I want solo-play and Private-group to NOT impact Open-play Power-play #'s.. I couldn't care less if they mindlessly grind away merits for 50,000,000 in private as long as it isn't hurting the Open player base who has no way of reaching out to these people and discouraging poor decisions or enlightening them on their ignorance.

Why should open-PvP players receive special treatment ? ED isn't a pure PvP game

That's what you're advocating here : Anyone who isn't in open is an inferior player and their efforts are not allowed to contribute !

As I said earlier, your view point is skewed by the fact you're a PvP player.

Nuff said.

 

[Etherimp]

Why should open-PvP players receive special treatment ? ED isn't a pure PvP game

That's what you're advocating here : Anyone who isn't in open is an inferior player and their efforts are not allowed to contribute !

As I said earlier, your view point is skewed by the fact you're a PvP player.

Nuff said.

No.. Your efforts are allowed to contribute to you.

You want to grind 10,000 merits in a system that is at 6000% fortified/undermined? Go for it.. But it wouldn't impact the PP universe.

Want to stay alone, and not interact with other players? Want to avoid interdiction, PvP, or player-interaction? That's your choice. But why should your merits count for the same as mine, when every time I grind my merits I risk dying to a group of gankers?

And honestly, if you don't care enough about the game to learn how to PVP, or put shields on your trade-conda, or learn to high-wake out when you're in trouble, then yes.. You are an inferior player because you're lazy.


Edit: To be clear, you're already getting special treatment as a solo/PG player because you get to run builds which are min/maxed for efficiency without any fear of death by player. In open play, it's very unwise to mix-max your cargo capacity at the expense of survive-ability. Furthermore, if you choose to engage in PP, none of your fortification or undermining can be countered by opposing player groups or factions, so, again, you can fit your ship for PVE (gimbals, turrets, etc.)

In Open play, it's not nearly as viable and much more risky to play like this...

Furthermore, there's no reason for you to NOT play in Open unless you're afraid of dying/getting shot at. The fact that you are afraid of dying and/or losing your 5% insurance (wowow so punishing) is proof positive that you're an inferior player.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

You are an inferior player because you're lazy.

<snip>

Furthermore, there's no reason for you to NOT play in Open unless you're afraid of dying/getting shot at. The fact that you are afraid of dying and/or losing your 5% insurance (wowow so punishing) is proof positive that you're an inferior player.

Shame - it's devolved into attacking me personally. Well then, allow me to retort

I started ED during Alpha so yes I receive a lovely 98% insurance payout so any death would only set me back 2%. Guess I am lucky, right ?

I probably play 75% of the time in open, switching to private/solo when I can't be bothered dealing with oiks. Sometimes I just want to kick back and enjoy myself after a hard day.

Playing on/off since Alpha .. that's what - almost a year now ? Skipped most of 1.2 as I fell out with ED and power play (it's garbage frankly) ... came back for 1.3 and definitely here to stay with 1.4 & now 1.5 - wow, that is shaping up to be something rather nice!

Oh, did I mention I am on commander number 12 ?

"What's that ?!" I hear you say .. "Commander #12 ?"

Yep - self Ironman mode ... If I die I delete my character

I have been killed by a fair number of commanders in my time and each death was a wipe. Bagged one of the largest bounties I had heard of during 1.1 through a sheer fluke ( 5.5 million from a PvP player ) but a few days later crashed into an asteroid. Wiped.

I don't need insurance .. that's for children who can't stand loosing.


So I ask you - who were you calling inferior ?

/thread
/ignored

EDIT:

Spoiler

 

[Etherimp]

Shame - it's devolved into attacking me personally. Well then, allow me to retort

I started ED during Alpha so yes I receive a lovely 98% insurance payout so any death would only set me back 2%. Guess I am lucky, right ?

I probably play 75% of the time in open, switching to private/solo when I can't be bothered dealing with oiks. Sometimes I just want to kick back and enjoy myself after a hard day.

Playing on/off since Alpha .. that's what - almost a year now ? Skipped most of 1.2 as I fell out with ED and power play (it's garbage frankly) ... came back for 1.3 and definitely here to stay with 1.4 & now 1.5 - wow, that is shaping up to be something rather nice!

Oh, did I mention I am on commander number 12 ?

"What's that ?!" I hear you say .. "Commander #12 ?"

Yep - self Ironman mode ... If I die I delete my character

I have been killed by a fair number of commanders in my time and each death was a wipe. Bagged one of the largest bounties I had heard of during 1.1 through a sheer fluke ( 5.5 million from a PvP player ) but a few days later crashed into an asteroid. Wiped.

I don't need insurance .. that's for children who can't stand loosing.


So I ask you - who were you calling inferior ?

/thread
/ignored

In that case, congratulations. And if you read my posts it's clear to see I have no problem with people like yourself.

 

[glojo]

I asked what I thought was an extremely important and highly relevant question regarding Powerplay and so far all I have heard is political blah blah that at best avoids that question, or ignores it.

Here we go again

Frontier has capped the amount of influence any faction can earn to just 3%

I totally accept folks can be in different instances and not be seen.... That is a given and so far has never been an issue.

My very simple question is.....

How can any minor faction that is being heavily undermined by private groups make any type of progress in Powerplay?

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


A simple, straight forward question and at the moment folks are in my experience leaving Powerplay\Elite in droves as this part of the game is flawed.

I do NOT want to hear about X-box, Y-box, private groups PVP, or even PVE.

I just want to know how a minor faction can increase its influence when it is capped at 3% and that faction is being heavily undermined.. (undermining is influence and I am hoping that the total influence would be 3% as opposed to 3% for each faction doing the undermining) This last part is me thinking aloud but I still want to know how we can increase our influence.

My answers from Frontier have always been what I call political and have always danced around what was asked, not once has the question been answered. Hopefully you folks will have something constructive to suggest??

 

[Robert Maynard]

How can any minor faction that is being heavily undermined by private groups make any type of progress in Powerplay?

How does any minor faction know with any certainty from which mode any undermining is taking place?

 

[glojo]

How does any minor faction know with any certainty from which mode any undermining is taking place?

Al I want is the simple answer to my very simple question please?

We can only increase our influence to a maximum of 3%....

Undermining in private can easily achieve 3%... How can my minor faction make any progress?

A simple question that is highly relative but so far no one has given any type of constructive answer.

I will willingly answer your question as soon as you guys answer my most important one.

How can my minor faction make any progress regarding influence?

We can deal with this issue if Powerplay has separate groupings but I have NO IDEA how we can with the current state of the game and YES we have a rough idea of numbers.

 

[Robert Maynard]

How can my minor faction make any progress regarding influence?

By doing more than those undermining.

 

[glojo]

By doing more than those undermining.

I cannot count how many times I have quite clearly stated that each minor power is capped at 3% influence every 24hrs...

I am hoping your post was meant as a joke.

We CANNOT stop invisible players from undermining us.

They can EASILY reach their 3% if they have no opposition..

Hopefully your post was made as a joke as most of us are banging our heads against a brick wall trying to explain this crazy situation.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I cannot count how many times I have quite clearly stated that each minor power is capped at 3% influence every 24hrs...

I am hoping your post was meant as a joke.

We CANNOT stop invisible players from undermining us.

They can EASILY reach their 3% if they have no opposition..

Hopefully your post was made as a joke as most of us are banging our heads against a brick wall trying to explain this crazy situation.

If there is opposition then naturally there is the possibility that a minor faction will not be able to improve its influence. This holds regardless of which mode the opposition is playing in.

There is also the possibility that there are 5th columnists at work....