Another request to balance chaff units

Now FD have made an attempt at "balancing" SCBs to prevent the daisy chain spamming of them, surely similar attention can now be given to chaff units?

For example, a quote from another discussion of mine:-

Chaffs don't bother me (but I have 3 launchers on my FDL). Everyone who comes with gimb lasers has either an incredible bad aim or a slow ship (Python, Conda) or is simply just lazy to hit NPCs.


At the moment, there's a strong impetus for people planning on encountering other CMDRs to:-
a) Have buckets of chaff.
b) Have fixed weapons.

All this is down to chaff units allowing gimbals (& of course turrets) to be severly compromised, hence becoming a no-brainer for outfitting.


A question: Why do we not see NPCs with 3 chaff units (daisy chaining them)? It's for the same reason we don't see NPCs with 4+ SCBs daisy chaining those, or aiming for Power Plants. Because it would make for frustrating gameplay. So why is it any different for CMDR vs CMDR combat?


The only solution I can see is a limit to their usage per X seconds such that a logical balance can be introduced so gimbals/turrets are compromised for X seconds, and then after that, gimbals/turrets get "their turn" for Y seconds... Unless something interesting can be done with heat when they are used?


ps: I'd also on the side like to see an option to set gimbals to fixed (toggle/hold) rather than having to unlock your target. But this in itself is not enough to address the chaff problem as it doesn't help turrets.
 
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imho, the commander with 3 chaff chains dosent have a shield booster and therefore with my fixed beam, I'm happy. If i had gimbled id untarget and do it that way. Basically i think they are balanced because they might inconvenience the gimbled user but against someone with fixed they have nerf'd themselves and made themselves an easier target, a choice they make.
 
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The scanner (and target lock) is linked to your heat signature, so the Chaff clearly is hot stuff designed to mask your ship (rather than tinfoil to disrupt radar).

If you pop a chaff but continue to fire or boost (ie generate lots of heat) the chaff effect should be reduced or become ineffective. What would be wrong with this?
 
Stuff rebalanced so far:

Missiles - useless
Torpedos - useless
Mines - useless

Coming soon:

SCB - useless

Next then:

Chaff - useless

As usuall, doing the same nonsense over and over again sure will improve things, NOT.
 
Nerf chaff....are you kidding?

Why do people want to nerf a game mechanic that works as intended...just to fit their game style....and no the unlock gimbal/turret mechanism doesnt need to be changed either.

I wish people would consider how proposed changes might affect other peoples game play....please quit being selfish...some people may like how it works now.
 
I've seen some NPC chaff their little hearts out, they do it just as players do, and it's fine, since you can either use fixed weapons and ignore chaff totally or untarget when using gimbal/turret and ignore chaff totally. Failing to see what the problem is here, although your statement makes me think this is purely a PvP based request from someone who prefers to use gimbal/turret weapons...

If it ain't broke, put your hammer away.
 
I quite often see NPCs daisy-chaining chaff (in 1.5 anyway) so perhaps they have added that behaviour?

Though I agree it makes for mighty frustrating gameplay. The NPC doesn't care that it's wasting all of its chaff against me, because it only exists for me to fight it. I, on the other hand, have a finite amount to do me the entire time I'm in the bubble, so yeah. Pretty frustrating.

But anyway, if someone's using chaff on you a lot, just untarget them and fire your weapons manually. It's not as effective as with the Gimballs, but better than not getting any hits in at all.
 
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Don't see the need as you can already un-target and use as fixed or get close and they still hit. They already went from 30>10 in ammo , so I say no more nerf's needed.
 
Leave chaff alone. It's working perfectly, so no reason to "fix" it.

Also, if you're suggesting that the NPCs should daisy chain chaff, I have to wonder about your thinking. They have unlimited power, ammo (especially the ungodly sniper ability with railguns), no heat problems and now you want to add chaff?

Why can't you just leave it alone?
 
I seem to remember an idea another CMDR on the forums had that I quite liked. Make chaff less effective against higher class / rating of sensors. Could work?
_
I've personally no problem with chaff. If I'm gimballed I un-target and continue firing, if I'm fixed, well, I don't care and simply enjoy the firework-y spectacle (contrary to my poor target :p).
 
Don't see the need as you can already un-target and use as fixed or get close and they still hit. They already went from 30>10 in ammo , so I say no more nerf's needed.
Agreed, Chaff is really very simple to counter by - as you say - just moving in close , or by using multi-projectile weapons also at close range, .. If you start nerfing everything that makes a CMDR have a chance of grinning then screaming 'Jump' at the VoiceAttack to make a safe getaway, we very soon have a plethora of posts requesting stronger shields, larger power relays etc etc...
The game is Balanced in my opinion, It took years to get to this point, so why mess with the mechanic of ship vs ship battle, Just because we Can!??
This is a Sim, "Run What Ya Brung" is my reply to the tweakers n nerfers out there! ;)
 
The PvP players are the ones who emply multi-chaff and all-fixed loadouts much more than the PvE players. So much for your rant. ;)
I don't see the PVE players asking for the nerfs though, only the PVP. And that really wasn't a rant, just another observation of who is asking for nerfs. If you thought that was a rant then you obviously don't live with a women. lol
 
Don't see the need as you can already un-target and use as fixed or get close and they still hit. They already went from 30>10 in ammo , so I say no more nerf's needed.

If you're in an Anaconda, and your 4+ turrets cannot lock, for minutes on end, is that OK?


ps: As for the "un-target" for gimbals, as I said, personally I'd like there to be an option (bind/toggle) to control that.



I don't see the PVE players asking for the nerfs though, only the PVP. And that really wasn't a rant, just another observation of who is asking for nerfs. If you thought that was a rant then you obviously don't live with a women. lol

You won't see PvE calling for these rebalances for one obvious reason, NPCs are not allowed to spam like CMDRs. You do not see NPCs using the same mechanics as CMDRs are allowed to. Reason being it would frustrate too many people.

Have you ever tried shooting an NPC and not been able to lock on with gimbals for minutes on end as they have 3 chaff units? Have you ever been attacking an NPC python and had to wait while they use a dozen SCB cells from 4+ SCBs??


The PvP players are the ones who emply multi-chaff and all-fixed loadouts much more than the PvE players. So much for your rant. ;)
Reason of course being because things are not balanced.

Imagine if a chaff lasted 10 seconds, and then you couldn't use another (now matter how many units you have) until 10 seconds later... Suddenly there's now some balance, and gimbals and (especially) turrets can actually get a "look in" :)
 
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If you're in an Anaconda, and your 4+ turrets cannot lock, for minutes on end, is that OK?
I'd say it was working as intended - the whole reason for chaff is to stop gimbals/turrets from locking. Besides, the Anaconda has a ridiculous pitch rate for its size - it's very hard to get behind and stay behind one, especially one piloted by a player. Boost, FA-off, pitch, counter-pitch, throttle-to-zero. Shoot.

ps: As for the "un-target" for gimbals, as I said, personally I'd like there to be an option (bind/toggle) to control that.
It would be nice, yes.
 
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Remove gimbals then chaff is redundant. The issue isn't with the chaff, its with the sanctioned aimbot crutch that is available in outfitting.
 
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Chaff doesn't need nerfing at all.

When I am fighting someone, and they deploy chaff, I simply un-target them and hey-presto, the gimballed weapons are now fixed weapons.

They don't get away any faster...
 
Chaff doesn't need nerfing at all.

When I am fighting someone, and they deploy chaff, I simply un-target them and hey-presto, the gimballed weapons are now fixed weapons.

They don't get away any faster...

Try it with turrets? ;)

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I'd say it was working as intended - the whole reason for chaff is to stop gimbals/turrets from locking. Besides, the Anaconda has a ridiculous pitch rate for its size - it's very hard to get behind and stay behind one, especially one piloted by a player. Boost, FA-off, pitch, counter-pitch, throttle-to-zero. Shoot.
Fair point... I can semi-go with that actually TBH...

But if the Anaconda, as you'd expect, is mostly turrets?
 
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