Vulture v Viper Mk IV-Ich Will

IMHO I think an extra medium hard point slot on my Vulture would make it the Ultimate Killing machine....
I had a Viper MK IV and gave it to charity.....
I don't experience fear in the Vulture, like I did in the '84 Elite, in a full Military Laser equipped Cobra MkIII, when I encountered one of our 'Witchspace' friends....
I fell off the back of a cheap 'Argos' office chair trying to out climb a Thargoid...my 9 yr old Son said 'It's only a game Dad!'....
So, don't trick the Vulture FD, leave it be please.... I'm more impressed with this kite than the Cobra Mk III....
and that's sayin sumink! :D
 
I beat vultures with my Cobra. It's all about skills. And if there is a problem I just leave. Because with the fastest ship, you set the rules.
 
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I mean IF there is a problem. If not, i kill my target.

Funny you say that because I'm always able to leave in my Vulture if there is a problem. What's the difference? Having a faster ship doesn't mean you're any faster at getting away (aka high wake).
 
Funny you say that because I'm always able to leave in my Vulture if there is a problem. What's the difference? Having a faster ship doesn't mean you're any faster at getting away (aka high wake).


A vulture can escape most of the time due its decent speed, agility, smallish size, and durability. However it can still be killed by ganksquads in faster bigger ships in mere seconds with very little recourse. Whereas a Cobra can actually escape every situation, every time.
 
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A vulture can escape most of the time due its decent speed, agility, smallish size, and durability. However it can still be killed by ganksquads in faster bigger ships in mere seconds with very little recourse. Whereas a Cobra can actually escape every situation, every time.

Yeah, the only times I haven't escaped other players while piloting a Cobra were likely due to pilot error. :eek:

To be fair though, the last couple of times of the few total, I was testing out a some things, as I recall.
 
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A vulture can escape most of the time due its decent speed, agility, smallish size, and durability. However it can still be killed by ganksquads in faster bigger ships in mere seconds with very little recourse. Whereas a Cobra can actually escape every situation, every time.

Didn't know the Cobra was immune to being mass locked. Ah well you live and learn.
 
I'm still waiting for a ship that brings the Viper's armament and handling characteristics (or at least the feel of them) and adds a single large weapon. Like a best-of-both-Diamondback.
If the Viper Mk4 had this, and a slightly better distributor to make it all run, then I'd say it would be a worthy contender for the Vulture.
 
Does the Vulture really need a contender with its same kind of capabilities? Some people already prefer the Imperial Courier over it. The Vulture's real main role is to be the PVE RES farming ship. What would be the point of making something else better than it at the same kind of price and size range? Just to say you did?
 
Does the Vulture really need a contender with its same kind of capabilities? Some people already prefer the Imperial Courier over it. The Vulture's real main role is to be the PVE RES farming ship. What would be the point of making something else better than it at the same kind of price and size range? Just to say you did?
I wouldn't make something better than it at combat (at the same price), but I'd add something competitive. I don't know about you, but as I've been playing I've thought of ship tiers like this:

Tier 0.5: Sidewinder
Tier 1: Hauler, Adder, Eagle
Tier 1.5: Imperial Eagle
Tier 2: Cobra Mk III, Type-6 Transporter, Viper Mk III, Diamondback Scout
Tier 2.5: Diamondback Explorer, Imperial Courier
Tier 3: Vulture, Asp

Back when I at Tier 2, I never felt I had to be in a Viper to be competitive for my tier in combat. The DBS was great, maybe 10% less good at combat for significantly better range. Even the Cobra brought something superior to combat to the Viper – brilliant boost speed.

Up at Tier 3, if you're fighting, fly a Vulture. I wouldn't take an Asp to a CZ, a HI/Haz RES or a Comp. NB. I'd very cautiously like a Courier, but it does feel like a tier below. It'd be good to have something 90% as good as a Vulture at combat at a similar price point, but with advantages in different areas. Not the Viper Mk IV though, that's a multi-role ship at a much lower price point.
 

That's fair enough. I think having more viable choices in the game is a good thing, but as it is I think there are already enough less than completely viable ships in the game. I'm also not really a fan of there being so much of a steppingstone like progression, but that is what it is, I suppose. At least the Cobra is still a fun and very viable ship to use on occasion, thanks to its distinguishing characteristics.
 
That's fair enough. I think having more viable choices in the game is a good thing, but as it is I think there are already enough less than completely viable ships in the game. I'm also not really a fan of there being so much of a steppingstone like progression, but that is what it is, I suppose. At least the Cobra is still a fun and very viable ship to use on occasion, thanks to its distinguishing characteristics.

Hmm, what's the alternative to a stepping stone progression? All ships being balanced against all others? I know a lot of players already have essentially unlimited cash and can fly what they want, but before that you really need to see that the ship you just spent a week earning the cash for is somehow better. I think it's tricky but possible to balance the two competing interests. Anything below my 'tier 3/2.5' is probably going to be redundant in the lategame, except for nostalgia and perhaps smuggling / trading rares. I get the feeling that the Vulture manages to stay relevant despite the Fer-de-Lance being stronger in combat, in large part because it's at a sweet spot in insurance claim cost that makes it a lot more practical to fly. That's probably the way to keep tiers 3, 4 and 5 balanced while still having a stepping stone progression.
 
I think people really need to stop acting like this is World of Warcraft, with talk of "tiers" and "endgame". It just doesn't apply in this game, and forcing it onto it is only to the detriment of the game and your enjoyment of it.

Different ships are more or less effective at different roles than other ships, and ships have different flavors and are suited to different playstyles, but there's no "tiers" of ships other than what players choose to see. Similarly, there is no "endgame" The game is the game throughout. It doesn't change once you get X credits, or once you hit X rank in the Pilot's Federation.

The game is the game; tiers and endgame are only in your head.
 
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Don't get me wrong, I think more expensive ships should be more capable in general, but I like the idea of ships having niche type rolls that remain viable and aren't based so much on a player's credit account. There are a few examples of this, but I'd like for there to be more. I'm not particularly fond of piloting larger ships either (actually, I avoid it like the plague), so that likely colors my opinion as well.
 
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I think people really need to stop acting like this is World of Warcraft, with talk of "tiers" and "endgame". It just doesn't apply in this game, and forcing it onto it is only to the detriment of the game and your enjoyment of it.

Different ships are more or less effective at different roles than other ships, and ships have different flavors and are suited to different playstyles, but there's no "tiers" of ships other than what players choose to see. Similarly, there is no "endgame" The game is the game throughout. It doesn't change once you get X credits, or once you hit X rank in the Pilot's Federation.

The game is the game; tiers and endgame are only in your head.
Well then, buy an Anaconda when you only have 500,000 cr – then come back and reaffirm that "it just doesn't apply in this game". I thought it was clear I was talking about cost tiers, and they do exist, and there's plenty of evidence of scaling. You're not going to see a Huge hardpoint on a 300,000 cr ship, nor a cargo capacity of 400 tons. And the concept of progression is absolutely part of Elite: Dangerous. In fact, compared to many of my favourite games (based on gameplay), like Bastion and Trine, Elite: Dangerous is far more focused on time-intensive 'progression'.

In this thread we're almost putting a development hat on, talking about what ships there should be, what they should be like, etc. And wearing that hat, you can't not talk about progression and 'lategame', 'endgame', whatever you want to call it. There are players, at certain times, who can afford any ship. There are players, at certain times, who can't. Gameplay considerations need to take both into account. Wearing the development hat one absolutely should talk about the 'endgame', and how that stage of gameplay strongly encourages a more even playing field between all ships – so that players won't find cheaper ships obsolete. One should also absolutely talk about how a very time-intensive game like Elite: Dangerous, and one with a factor of over a thousand between the cheapest and most expensive ship, has to offer some kind of progression when getting richer.

And I assure you, me talking about it doesn't ruin my enjoyment, and if anyone tells me the existence of me talking about it ruins the game globally then… then… what?

FD have generally done a pretty good job of balancing ships according to the two player regimes. More expensive ships offer you something to make you feel they're worth the higher pricetag (something you paid for in a lot of hours), but many less expensive ships remain relevant in certain situations, esp. for stealth or less painful insurance claims. I stick by my assessment that tiering ships by cost to look at what the gameplay is like when you can only afford up to those ships is completely valid, and as a dev if I was looking at what sort of new ships to add it's exactly how I'd look at it.
 
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