Planetary shadows too dark?

Firstly let me congratulate FD on an incredible gaming achievement with Horizons. Nothing should detract from the feat that the team has achieved.

So last night I finally found an SRV hanger and got to drive on a planet. I landed at a point when the sun was just rising casting nice long shadows. One thing that really struck me was how the shadow areas, particularly in craters, drop to almost total black. The result of this is twofold. Firstly, when flying over the surface, it makes the planet texture appear very "noisy" because of the very high contrast, not nice to look at for long.

The second effect is that it's very hard to navigate when on the planet's surface as the horizon is so broken up with black tones, whilst also making it impossible to see anything without lights on when in a shadow area.

I should add that I am a video game 3D and lighting artist with 10+ years experience. Now I don't know what kind of lighting system they use at FD, whether the planets are entirely dynamically lit or whether there is some degree of lightmapping involved but either way some settings need to be altered somewhere to add a bit of indirect light into the shadow areas.

I also don't know what the science is behind shadows in space, I'm sure that without an atmosphere you wouldn't really get any light scattering effects, but I'm sure you would get bounce light off the planet's surface filling these areas with illumination. Only in the deepest darkest crevices would it go to black. Even the dark potion of our moon is lighter than the surrounding night sky.

Now obviously more lights means more computing power on an already visually heavy game so out of the question. But the site please solution would be to lighten the shadow darkness so that their intensity is less thus allowing some of the planet's surface to show through.

Visually I think this would make the biggest difference to planetary landing experience.

I should also note that I play on a professional graphics monitor calibrated monthly with a Spyder4 calibration tool so my colour and tone settings are correct. I must admit I find the lack of brightness and contrast controls in-game, and the range of graphics settings in general, massively underwhelming for such a visuals driven title. Having an arbitrary "gamma" slider is next to useless especially when you can't actually see what changes you are making without firat applying them and exiting the menu.

Anyway, I felt that this was pertinent as it represents a potential big and easy win in terms of visuals and playability for FD. Although if the art department is anything like every other art department I've ever worked in then the artists would stubbornly ignore the citisisim and insist that what they've done is right! Either way, those are simply my thoughts on the subject.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_craters

It is basically 'pitch black' in shadow areas as like you said there is no atmosphere to scatter/bounce the light into shadowy areas.
Lunar phases are another example of moon not lit by direct sunlight rendering some areas basically 'invisible' (not distinguishable from the surrounding space) when looking from earth.
 
Apologies to anyone not in the UK
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But I read this and instantly think of the Apprentice when one of the Selling points given by a candidate where the lovely big windows were great for letting in the sunlight during the day and the night
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Seriously though - you are using your headlights I take it on high and low beam?
 
If you drive into a deep enough, dark enough canyon. The ambient image based light from the skybox does kick in, similar to the way it does on the dark side of the planet. Of course it entirely depends on what's overhead, if there is no galactic core or nebula to illuminate the surface then it will be pitch black since bounced light isn't simulated.
 
No. If anything they are too light. Go visit the actual "night" side an ice planet. It will be bright pink. Not black. But shadows on the day side are inky black, the way they should be. I reported it as bug, and was told they are looking into it.
 
No. If anything they are too light. Go visit the actual "night" side an ice planet. It will be bright pink. Not black. But shadows on the day side are inky black, the way they should be. I reported it as bug, and was told they are looking into it.

The nights sides are indeed super-weird. Yesterday I was on the planet Popov Reward around Vega, rocky, or was it metal-rich? Definitely not icy. Anyway.
Day side, near one of the poles, Vega very low: long, pitch black shadows. Half a crater in pure darkness. Perfectly how it should be:
nmxlamp3.jpg
(The big black area on the right is part of the interior of the crater, shadowed by its rim.)

Then I went to the night side of that same planet, to dock at a planetary port. The entire night side was noticably pink-ish and not very dark at all when seen from space. But curiously, when driving around on the ground, it seemed appropriately dark, with only whatever light the station's facilities provided illuminating the ground. I should drive around a bit further outside the station and make screenshots.
 
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Lunar phases are another example of moon not lit by direct sunlight rendering some areas basically 'invisible' (not distinguishable from the surrounding space) when looking from earth.
Ever heard the term "Earthshine"?

EarthShineStack.jpg


And yes, you can also perceive this with the naked eye on a fairly clear night.
 
They use some sort of patch lighting... This can be found in the new beta version of the Graphicsconfiguration.xml.
Imo shadows overall are too bright in the game (I don't have beta access so I don't know about planet shadows).

OP, if you're a 3d artist... What's your take on the lighting in general? As an ENB Series preset author I've done a share of lighting in-game. I think the lighting is too bland in ED. Ambient lighting is too bright (almost self illuminated at times) and the Ambience Occlusion effect doesn't really do much (landing gear appears to be floating).

Also, I use Reshade so I control contrasts and general post tonemapping in there. :)
 
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Airless worlds should be pitch black since there's no atmosphere to scatter light.

Not technically true, the ground will scatter a significant amount of light. Just look at the real moon landing photos, Neil Armstrong is in shadow and yet is perfectly well lit.

MoonLanding.jpg

There should be a fair bit of bounced light in the shadows, nothing is ever pitch black. The engine doesn't support gi/bounced light so they approximate it with ambient light.
 
Not every moon/planet is close enough to another moon/planet to receive bounced light from that.


Yes. And this is why the planets are pink. They are being lit by the Milky Way itself. Take note and look up in the sky. Next time You will see much more detail in the Milky Way as well because your vision is even more dark adapted.

The problem is that the night shadows are buggy and inconsistent. Different places will seem bright or dark even in same lighting conditions. Craters will have extra ambient shadows. Night side shadows on ALL planetswill stay light after you leave a "dark" planet. This doesn't happen all the time and resets back to normal night side inky shadows if you relog.
 
I was on one of the moons in the Kappa Fornicus system last night (sorry, can't remember the name of the moon) that was orbiting very close to a water/earth like - the dark side of the moon we were on was bathed in the blue reflected light from the planet, it was awsome.

I do use SweetFX, which does appear to increase the blue spectrum somewhat, so that may have been a factor.
 
I've gotta say, whilst I agree that light scattering (i.e. light particles that are diffused throughout atmospheric particles) is an impossibility on a airless planet, bounce light (i.e. light particles that reflect off of a surface) is a physical certainty regardless of atmosphere. No substance absorbs all light rays therefor when the sun hits the planet's surface it necessarily must reflect light rays onto the surrounding surfaces. That photo of Neil Armstrong is exactly what I'm talking about. And Jon Flint is right, nothing is ever pitch black.

As for my thoughts on the lighting in general in the game, I find it a little underwhelming. The sheer scope of what Frontier is trying to do with ED means that the lighting, like the rest of the game, is very "procedural" in its approach. Meaning that everything in the game meets a satisfactory level of lighting quality without ever feeling particularly artistic or hand crafted. But lighting, particularly in a game like this this where the sources of light are clearly defined, is really only ever as good as the shaders used to convey material types. This to me seems like an inevitable result of the project and is something I can live with.

Where creativity CAN be used in a lighting pipeline like this is where I find the biggest lack actually. For example I find the bloom is a little high in places, but then that's the case in 99% of all video games, and, of course, the shadows are too dark; on the planets a least. These are actually things that a lighting artist has control over, not the technical artist, so these are fundamentals that should really be art directed based on a combination of real world theory and creative aesthetics, it is an interactive video game after all, not cinema. The first concern has to be that the player can see where he or she is going.
 
This has been reported as a bug by several people. It isn't.

If you were to walk into one of those dark black shadow areas in a crater you are not blind. You can see perfectly well. Your eyes adjust to the available light levels, that's what eyes do. When flying into the night side of a planet your eyes adjust similarly. I think the adjustment they have today as you fly behind a planet is excellent and works well and is no different than flying away from a star to see more stars emerge.

Here's a photo of the dark side of our moon. Do you think the Apollo astronauts used a large flash to take it?

Moon_Farside_LRO.jpg
 
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Shadragon, your reply seems contradictory. You say that this isn't a bug then say that there is light in shadow areas, which is precisely what I'm suggesting. You make a valid point about eyes adjusting to the dark in RL and if this were simulated in-game then it would solve the problems we're discussing, but it's not. Your photo of the moon proves little other than there is enough light bouncing around to expose a photograph.

The simple fact is, I can't see anything when I'm in the shadow areas on the planet's surface unless I use lights. How can that be right/ a good thing?
 
Then I went to the night side of that same planet, to dock at a planetary port. The entire night side was noticably pink-ish and not very dark at all when seen from space.

I was wrong. I forgot the system also has a brown dwarf that was illuminating the night side a bit! Which means multiple stellar light sources seem to work in Horizons now! :)
 
The night side of planets is way to light at the moment. It looks dark from a distance, but when the high detail service pops in (and it really does pop in hard) everything gets brightened. The night side on airless world (without other light sources) should be completely pitch black.

The low vs higher detail lighting is WAY out of sync at the moment. Even the day side looks to dim on some planets when you get close to them.
 
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Here's a photo of the dark side of our moon. Do you think the Apollo astronauts used a large flash to take it?

http://www.iflscience.com/sites/www...blog/[nid]/Moon_Farside_LRO.jpg?itok=92hMfnQb

Your photo of the moon proves little other than there is enough light bouncing around to expose a photograph.

OMG, really? The "dark" side of the moon is the back side that faces away from us. It gets bathed in full sunlight when it's between us and the Sun. No light bouncing needed for a photograph. Get a grip guys.

As far as shadows in Horizons, I personally think there should be a little ambient light if you're driving around in the shadow...but not enough to drive around without headlights.
 
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