Coriolis Station Physics

[CoSm1c gAm3r]

I just realized that solution in example 2 is not possible because I would gain speed of that floor and start to be weightless and be in 0 G again. So only at acceleration of spin I would feel force and then it would gain stable rotation speed and I would fly to "ceiling" in figure 2

It was my first thought and now I realized my mistake. As one guy here mentioned, to achieve some G forces from figure 2 acceleration of rotation had to be constant and that would be insane.

I have other idea to make some sense out of second example
It would be possible if something would force me in opposite direction against floor. I am thinking about air flow xD It would be like being in something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ffli2zd-KA but instead of blowing from bottom it would blow from above

Yes it is silly but it would be possible to make some G forces out of #2 example.
As for sliding there would be none because diameter of ring would be big enough. Also floor would not be made out of ice.
Example 1 needs proper diameter too. Otherwise there would be problems like it is shown in article that I attached in my earlier post.

Well, not quite an impossibility, more like the second example of CaptainKremmen brilliant advertising example:

I laughed hard at this xD

 

[EidLeWeise]

I did some measuring earlier today

My best estimate is that the inside of the docking bay is 750 m in diameter
The Station is 3.5 km in diameter.

I did this by locking on to a commander then flying to the other side of the station and trying to not crash. Please remember the station has uppy bits and downy bits too...


Eid

 

[Slythe]

I did some measuring earlier today

My best estimate is that the inside of the docking bay is 750 m in diameter
The Station is 3.5 km in diameter.

I did this by locking on to a commander then flying to the other side of the station and trying to not crash. Please remember the station has uppy bits and downy bits too...


Eid

I know how to get a pretty accurate dimension for the docking bay, if I can get a good image of a Cobra or Sidewinder on one of the landing pads. We know the width of those two ships, more or less, and we can see that the docking bay is divided into twelve evenly sized lengthway strips. If we can work out the width of one of the stripes, based on the Cobra or Sidewinder, we can calculate the circumference & diameter of the whole bay.

 

[Ratio]

I have other idea to make some sense out of second example
It would be possible if something would force me in opposite direction against floor. I am thinking about air flow xD It would be like being in something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ffli2zd-KA but instead of blowing

I think I get ya, but don't you mean blow from an angle perpendicular to the angle of momentum? and given that we are rotating round a focus point not a gravity well our angular momentum is well OUTTA HERE...

perhaps we could do it with magnets instead of air?

I also picked up on possible way to measure the distance, we need an OR user to record the two images. We can calc the paralax from the image (possible and work back the relative distances?).. just a thought?

 

[Patrick_68000]

In all cases, the space station appears in all its splendor in the last Progress Diary # 11 Alpha 3

 

[CoSm1c gAm3r]

I think I get ya, but don't you mean blow from an angle perpendicular to the angle of momentum? and given that we are rotating round a focus point not a gravity well our angular momentum is well OUTTA HERE...

perhaps we could do it with magnets instead of air?

I also picked up on possible way to measure the distance, we need an OR user to record the two images. We can calc the paralax from the image (possible and work back the relative distances?).. just a thought?

Magnets in boots would only stop you from levitating out from that floor. Something must push us to that floor that moves on us from below. Circle would be big enough so there is no worry about any angular movement that would slide us to wall. EVEN if that would be the case then I would make floor at angle. You would only feel force pushing you to that floor and that floor would give you feel of gravity/weight of your body. So you could do pushups and situps without problems Only that air blowing at us would be annoying. But if we would be in full suit then that could work. Thats how I think.

Here is pic of my new thoughts.

If somebody wonders about people sliding outside (even if that wheel would be very big not small like in this example) then I have idea. Remove each top floor and that floor which is left is at certain angle so making rooms at angle would eliminate that force which would push people to outside of that wheel.

 

[Welshboy]

They ought to put bright red cross and green tick indicators over each side of the entrance. Problem was solved long ago, an obvious omission. It would be easy to do, and the rotation wouldn't matter.

Cheers,

Drew.

The problem you have there though is the hinted size of the player flyable ships during Scott Manleys interview. It was mentioned in there ( and i assume he was referring to ships we could use ) that they would only just fit though the entrance of the stations.
I foresee quite a few head on collisions lol. Would be nice to have the docking and departure request system expanded slightly so that once docking ( or departure ) is requested that the entrance / exit is yours to use within a small time window.

Either that or only have that apply to the larger ships so that others are put on hold while they dock / exit and once complete return the entrance to a 2 way system as usual for the smaller ships.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Thats's a very nice picture Cosmic, however I don't think it would work.

Look at a car that has been driven through mud. There will be streaks of mud all over the back of the car, and they follow a fairly predictable pattern.

The same forces are at work, "down" is toward the outside of the tyre, and "up" is toward the hub.

OK forces is the wrong word, it's only inertia, I'm not a fizzycist!

 

[Memnoch]

For the very same reason why your washing sticks to the outside of the drum as it rotates at high speed.

Cosmic, what you are suggesting I think is that if a wall of death motorcycle rider were to place a pint of beer on his chect as he was flying around the wall, it would just magically stick to his chest and not go smashing to the walls surface? That's just not going to happen, he is going to get wet trousers and possibly a crutch full of broken glass.

 

[CoSm1c gAm3r]

For the very same reason why your washing sticks to the outside of the drum as it rotates at high speed.

Cosmic, what you are suggesting I think is that if a wall of death motorcycle rider were to place a pint of beer on his chect as he was flying around the wall, it would just magically stick to his chest and not go smashing to the walls surface? That's just not going to happen, he is going to get wet trousers and possibly a crutch full of broken glass.

Experiments about space should be done in space for best accuracy. Thats why your example with can dont make sense at all. To perform similar thing in space you must move that wheel and on earth it is still. Also there is still force that pulling things downward. In space this can would not be pulled downward because in 0 g there is no direction. Only forces. So moving floor at our feet would give force but it would push us to its own speed so we would end up being in 0 g again and even we would fly to ceiling because of initial push. Thats why I came up with idea of air flow similar way that it is used to practice free fall but in opposite direction. Thats how one force would push us to floor and that floor which is moving at our feet would create pressure from below. Airflow would decrease our movement and floor would put pressure. That way it would act as artificial gravity.

I am not stating that it is better way or something. If there would be something better than what I put in 1st example then scientists would already made that theory.
I just want to share thoughts and maybe learn something new.

 

[Memnoch]

Experiments about space should be done in space for best accuracy. Thats why your example with can dont make sense at all. To perform similar thing in space you must move that wheel and on earth it is still. Also there is still force that pulling things downward. In space this can would not be pulled downward because in 0 g there is no direction.

I wasn't suggesting that the beer would fall to the ground, I was suggesting that it would fall sideways to the wall his bike is revolving around. Why do you think he is still riding the bike in the first place, because his bottom is being pushed "down" onto the seat of the motorbike.

 

[Francois]

this is just coriolis station. what's exciting is there will be stations of any shapes and stuffs depending on the system, etc.

like they stated it will comes from procedural generation.

that will be awesome

 

[Memnoch]

It will be nice to see much larger structures, perhaps those without rotating sections and a mixture of the two.

 

[laforge]

First: To call these stations 'Coriolis Stations' is a horrible description. In fact Coriolis effects is something you do not want in your station. I would simply call them 'Rotating (Space) Stations'. Coriolis effect are produced by the pseudo force you get as soon as you begin to move around in a rotating reference frame. This leads for example to the circular motion of cyclones on earth or - in a small rotating space station - to curvilinear water streams when you fill something from one container into another and also an increased centrifugal force when moving in direction of the rotation and reduced centrifugal force when moving in the opposite way.

These effects will make life on a small rotating space station impracticable and is the main reason why such stations are not build yet: Such stations must be large in order to mimimize these effects (= too costly).

Second: Now since this was made clear I have my doubts that Coriolis effects will be implemented into the physics on such a space station in this game in any way. Because it makes additional complifications which no one wants anyways. We will probably simply walk around there as it would be in an environment of 'generated gravity' a la star trek. With the only difference that these stations are rotating and designed differently. I am curious how the interior design of these rotating stations will look expecially close to the rotation axis where the centripetal force is symmetric with respect to the axis and close to zero - which I find quite challenging to design in a computer game. If one does explicitely say we do not have 'generated gravity' then one must convincingly design the interior of these stations. Good luck with that

 

[Dejay]

First: To call these stations 'Coriolis Stations' is a horrible description.

Lol I love the name! It's a subtly ironic nickname for a station like "the vomit spinner" hehe

 

[Voyager_NL]

First: To call these stations 'Coriolis Stations' is a horrible description. In fact Coriolis effects is something you do not want in your station. I would simply call them 'Rotating (Space) Stations'. Coriolis effect are produced by the pseudo force you get as soon as you begin to move around in a rotating reference frame. This leads for example to the circular motion of cyclones on earth or - in a small rotating space station - to curvilinear water streams when you fill something from one container into another and also an increased centrifugal force when moving in direction of the rotation and reduced centrifugal force when moving in the opposite way.

These effects will make life on a small rotating space station impracticable and is the main reason why such stations are not build yet: Such stations must be large in order to mimimize these effects (= too costly).

Second: Now since this was made clear I have my doubts that Coriolis effects will be implemented into the physics on such a space station in this game in any way. Because it makes additional complifications which no one wants anyways. We will probably simply walk around there as it would be in an environment of 'generated gravity' a la star trek. With the only difference that these stations are rotating and designed differently. I am curious how the interior design of these rotating stations will look expecially close to the rotation axis where the centripetal force is symmetric with respect to the axis and close to zero - which I find quite challenging to design in a computer game. If one does explicitely say we do not have 'generated gravity' then one must convincingly design the interior of these stations. Good luck with that

All true but in fact the stations in the first Elite were already called like this so it would be strange to not keep this name. Would be more strange to suddenly start calling them Dodecahedron stations or something that reflects its shape.

 

[Susimetsa]

All true but in fact the stations in the first Elite were already called like this so it would be strange to not keep this name. Would be more strange to suddenly start calling them Dodecahedron stations or something that reflects its shape.

But I though we did... I remember talking about Dodec stations somewhere...

 

[Captain N]

Firstly: Having the Coriolis effect in a rotating space station is unavoidable. However small it is, it's always there.

Secondly: The Coriolis effect is already in the game. See this video at 1:55 See how the ship veers to the left as it gains distance from the pad? That's the Coriolis effect.

Thirdly: Nothing wrong with naming a rotating space station after a famous scientist who extensively studied rotating frames of reference.

 

[CoSm1c gAm3r]

I wasn't suggesting that the beer would fall to the ground, I was suggesting that it would fall sideways to the wall his bike is revolving around. Why do you think he is still riding the bike in the first place, because his bottom is being pushed "down" onto the seat of the motorbike.

Then read carefully. I mentioned floor tilt. Also as I wrote, experiment on earth that you described would not work in same way in 0 g. Watch vid that I put in one of my posts. That with human in big wheel. They used stripes to eliminate gravitation pull effect. In that daredevil barrel thing you mentioned, nothing is eliminating gravitation pull. Thats why in 0 g it would look diferently. That can would stay on his chest as long as there is other force acting from above that can (strong air flow) Also instead of that humans chest (that you used as example) it would be floor on which can would "stand" Floor push that can from below and airflow decelerates that object from going "up" by pushing it against floor. And floor would be at certain degree so it would stop centrifugal force.

 

[NeilF]

Magnets in boots would only stop you from levitating out from that floor. Something must push us to that floor that moves on us from below. Circle would be big enough so there is no worry about any angular movement that would slide us to wall. EVEN if that would be the case then I would make floor at angle. You would only feel force pushing you to that floor and that floor would give you feel of gravity/weight of your body. So you could do pushups and situps without problems Only that air blowing at us would be annoying. But if we would be in full suit then that could work. Thats how I think.

Here is pic of my new thoughts.

If somebody wonders about people sliding outside (even if that wheel would be very big not small like in this example) then I have idea. Remove each top floor and that floor which is left is at certain angle so making rooms at angle would eliminate that force which would push people to outside of that wheel.

Dude! Go to a kids playground and stand on a merry go around and get someone to spin you around... What happens? You get thrown out towards the edge. In your example(s) all the people, objects, items will all slide down the walls, while having their hair styles messed up by strong wind.


The ONLY place that can be used are regular floor space at 90 degrees to the angle of rotation - The further out, the higher the simulated gravity.