The Star Citizen Thread v 4

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Well i got in to play this tonight. Plesantly surprised and although it is screaming alpha at the top of its lungs throughout its nice to see a game loop in action. Was tough to keep connected though.

One thing and maybe this is me more than the game. DRIFT....oh my....im drifting all over the place and if i try too hard to correct by slowing and turning im going goat commander all the time.. Any tips would be appreciated (using mouse and keyboard mind i dont have the bravery to chance ruining the experience yet by trying my HOTAS)

I can only speak of AC Vanduul Swarm, but I've found the HOTAS to be pretty much OK now, yes it's slip-slidey - but at least I can get my ship to point in the direction I want it to now, without fighting against over-compensation. I have flown the Hornet FC7, Origin 325a and the Gladius and they all work now as I would expect. I always run with fixed weapons, and I find I can target and kill the AI Vanduul with some satisfaction.

Basic flight training seems to be broken for me - it does not inherit the same control scheme as everything else for some weird reason.

I will have a go at "Universe" this evening - can anyone provide me with a quick guide on how to get to the FPS area? Tonight will be the absolute first time I fire it up, and I do fancy checking out the FPS part.
 
Just re-downloaded and installed SC 2.0 after a catastrophic cache SSD death.

My poor lobster still just sits there. It's done nothing for the last few updates. It used to move around and be interesting. It's game-breaking for me.

Hehehe, I was in my hangar last night looking at the fish, and remembering what we all did in E: D Beta 1 - haul fish from Chango Dock. My favourite story about the SC fish tank has got to be the one where the space crab escaped and was crawling around people's hangars. I still find that really funny.
 
Found an interesting blog drawing comparisons between ship purchases in SC and gambling addiction.

http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/20...he-games-industry-governments-please-stop-us/

There was a link in the comments to an article from gamasutra about the methodology used to specifically target big spenders, it's with a view to free to play games but with people buying $30,000 fleets the comparisons quite apt.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/195806/chasing_the_whale_examining_the_.php?print=1
 
Found an interesting blog drawing comparisons between ship purchases in SC and gambling addiction.

http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/20...he-games-industry-governments-please-stop-us/

There was a link in the comments to an article from gamasutra about the methodology used to specifically target big spenders, it's with a view to free to play games but with people buying $30,000 fleets the comparisons quite apt.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/195806/chasing_the_whale_examining_the_.php?print=1


1. create artificial competition among players
2. create artificial system of values
3. narrow down choices of increasing their personal value to one: buying ships
4. introduce as many ships as possible, to create artificial impression of diversity
5. assign artificial values to different ships
6. watch them engage into a buying frenzy
7. profit

It really boils down to psychology 101 and modern economics, and Sandi knows that very well ;)
 
I can only speak of AC Vanduul Swarm, but I've found the HOTAS to be pretty much OK now, yes it's slip-slidey - but at least I can get my ship to point in the direction I want it to now, without fighting against over-compensation. I have flown the Hornet FC7, Origin 325a and the Gladius and they all work now as I would expect. I always run with fixed weapons, and I find I can target and kill the AI Vanduul with some satisfaction.

Basic flight training seems to be broken for me - it does not inherit the same control scheme as everything else for some weird reason.

I will have a go at "Universe" this evening - can anyone provide me with a quick guide on how to get to the FPS area? Tonight will be the absolute first time I fire it up, and I do fancy checking out the FPS part.

If anyone has some advice here I'd be appreciative also.
 
Found an interesting blog drawing comparisons between ship purchases in SC and gambling addiction.

http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/20...he-games-industry-governments-please-stop-us/

There was a link in the comments to an article from gamasutra about the methodology used to specifically target big spenders, it's with a view to free to play games but with people buying $30,000 fleets the comparisons quite apt.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/195806/chasing_the_whale_examining_the_.php?print=1

Human beings are very addictive creatures in their nature,this is the thing ppl. will usually judge other ppl. addiction but refuse to see themselves as an addicts.In this "system" we mostly don't have the sympathies for addicts and in many cases this leads to even bigger problems.Today we can recognize many addictions some of them can drive person to madness or even death and every day we realize that we found some new addictions so after the one's that are been so popular for many years like addiction to:Alcohol,Drug,Gamble,Cigarets,Food...etc..now with the entering in 21 century the new one's appears like addiction to:Internet,mobile P.,Games,computers...etc....so it seems that this vicious circle will never end,but there is one addiction that exist almost as long as we do most ppl.simply refuse to see it and in today's world we even praise this addicts,in matter of fact this addiction is probably responsible for so many millions of deaths....maybe you guess it that this is addiction for money&power and this addicts are not in the hospital beds and neither that others trying to isolate them no no almost in 99% cases this addicts are the one's that leads our company's and country's many times they are the one's responsible for so many wars and destruction...this type of addicts could be the one's that will lead this planet into the oblivion and yet most of us envy them and dream to become same as they are?WHY?.......
 
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1. create artificial competition among players
2. create artificial system of values
3. narrow down choices of increasing their personal value to one: buying ships
4. introduce as many ships as possible, to create artificial impression of diversity
5. assign artificial values to different ships
6. watch them engage into a buying frenzy
7. profit

It really boils down to psychology 101 and modern economics, and Sandi knows that very well ;)

As sad as it sounds, it is true. But the other side of the coin is that they are getting a lot of money with that. So there is some hope a fun game will come out of it. I don't need to spend hundreds of dollars, nor do i need to engage in toxic discussions with this community of CR disiples. Even if 80% of the funding goes to waste for redundant stuff, actors, PR, they still can make a nice game with the rest.
 
Played 2.0 for a couple of hours today. Immediate impressions:

* It's an Alpha :D bugs, glitches, dropouts ... meh.
* The overall feel is immediately appealing. I like "waking up" in the cubicle, sauntering out to the ship, yadda, yadda. I think they're on the right course conceptually.
* Graphics good, but some rendering lag and the collision boundaries are all over the place.
* Controls occasionally seem to spack out - the game just seems to lose its place on the page.
* Quantum drive is an effective mechanism
* EVA works OK
* Frame rate seemed OK
* Flight model sucks, but then it always has. Seriously, it's so bad it's almost a deal breaker for me. I have a dreadful feeling that with time it will turn into a great and rich game, but the awful flight system will be retained. Yuk.
 
As sad as it sounds, it is true. But the other side of the coin is that they are getting a lot of money with that. So there is some hope a fun game will come out of it.

Interactive experiences, designed to develop addiction and manipulate for means other than entertainment and/or education, are about as horrid manefestation of game design as we have in this era.

We acknowledge psychological addiction and and dependency issues to all manner of elements and contexts, even games/gaming. But the majority is currently failing to connect addiction with those designing interactive systemes to deleberatley develop dependency/ addiction - and as a business strategy no less. Eventually we'll take such things seriously but until then...

I think Candy Crush is one of my favourite examples of manipulation through in designed interactive experience. The designers stated, clearly, that they wished to (and arguably have managed to) develop a system to be addictive.

There's some good stuff coming through academia about it but fo the time being the vast majority are stuck with the mentality that games are for funzees and that developers are just some guys 'n gals whom we've given permission to press out buttons, with the tacit agreement that they have our best interests at heart, mentally, physically, financially etc.

What harm can those designing interactive systems do? Games aren't real so really we're safe, right? Oh sure, developers have to make a buck here and there because, hey it's a business! Developers are there to design systems to give us fun fun fun, right!?

Right.

On the plus side we can comfort ourselves with it not being our problem.

Fascinating stuff!
 
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Interactive experiences, designed to develop addiction and manipulate for means other than entertainment and/or education, are about as horrid manefestation of game design as we have in this era. Eventually we'll take them seriously but until then...

I think Candy Crush is one of my favourite examples of manipulation through in designed interactive experience.

There's some good stuff coming through academia about it but until then the vast majority are stuck with the mentality that games are for funzees. What harm can the do? Oh sure, they have to make a buck here and there because, hey it's a business! Developers are there to design systems to give us fun fun fun, right!?

Right.

On the plus side we can comfort ourselves with it not being our problem.

Well what i was trying to say is that there still is a difference between SC and all these F2P scams if CR delivers a decent game.
I didn't try to make a moral statement. In the end every adult is responsible for himself, and i don't think SC is aimed at minors.
 
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Well what i was trying to say is that there still is a difference between SC and all these F2P scams if CR delivers a decent game.
I didn't try to make a moral statement. In the end every adult is responsible for himself, and i don't think SC is aimed at minors.

Aye I hear you!

(To be clear, the following is directed at you, rather I'm discussing around the point at hand. Sorry to have to state this but, internet forums.. :) )

Sadly we're still at the stage where folks see 'games' akin to the early days of photography, flim/animation: Primarily a novelty.

That today we can use photography, film and animation to generate concensus and manipulate on personal and mass level is taken for granted.

As it stands, the general public have still yet to take game design seriously, let alone the discussion of accountability on the part of the desigers. Too readily do we quieten our dissonance with stories of 'it could be worse' or the myth that we're somehow infallible creatures incharge of our nervous systems 24/7, every day of every year, come what may.

I love this stuff :D

I do highly doubt SC cares to fund buy the minimal of efforts to verify the ages of its player base though. It's more cost effective to externalise any problems that might arise onto the consumer, including addiction (It's their own fault for falling for our carefully crafted system that's been and continues to be developed to be as manipulative as possible. Come on Joe Public! Surely you're 'common sense' is at least a match for vast quantities of academic research and testing!)
 
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Make a typical Mobile MP Game.
Make a typical monetization system of those games.
Put Hot Super Models on the Trailer of the Game.
Earn 1 Million Dollars a Day!

Also i don't think at all SC, not even Elite has player base of minors, neither do it appeals actually, a thing i learned from Space Sim communities is that the majority of the player base is much more mature.
So well, it's adults we're speaking of, you're as much influenced for the marketing of a game as you are on TV, or just walking around on a shopping mall, i don't get much of this discussion, the world we live in is moved by this, the gaming industry is just following the same thing the software industry already had followed.

On SC there's some pools you can find on the forum that points on 70% older than 25: http://i.imgur.com/OHFXByh.png
 
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Found an interesting blog drawing comparisons between ship purchases in SC and gambling addiction.

http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/20...he-games-industry-governments-please-stop-us/

There was a link in the comments to an article from gamasutra about the methodology used to specifically target big spenders, it's with a view to free to play games but with people buying $30,000 fleets the comparisons quite apt.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/195806/chasing_the_whale_examining_the_.php?print=1
You can clearly see, what's going on inside the backer community, they don't even realize, that it is complete madness to spend up to $30k on a video game. Just watch the reactions to the 2.0 sandbox and to normal gamers treating it like one. They are already complaining about "pirates", yet there is no concept of asset ownership in the techdemo yet (or any consequences/persistence). Just a simple "you spawned it, you are the first to operate it" mechanic. These addicts are not even able to enjoy the actual game, because they "enjoy" the meta-game (of buying JPEGs) more and are emotionally attached to pixels in a clearly unhealthy manner.

On the other side CIG heavily fights dissent even outside of their own hugbox, because they are now mainly living off those people, despite stating otherwise. This strategy is also going to ruin gameplay, because they will try anything to not disappoint whales. So it's time for people with regular game packages to back out and get a refund. It's also a sensible choice to not morally or financially support such an exploitation scheme.
 
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I can only speak of AC Vanduul Swarm, but I've found the HOTAS to be pretty much OK now, yes it's slip-slidey - but at least I can get my ship to point in the direction I want it to now, without fighting against over-compensation. I have flown the Hornet FC7, Origin 325a and the Gladius and they all work now as I would expect. I always run with fixed weapons, and I find I can target and kill the AI Vanduul with some satisfaction.

Basic flight training seems to be broken for me - it does not inherit the same control scheme as everything else for some weird reason.

I will have a go at "Universe" this evening - can anyone provide me with a quick guide on how to get to the FPS area? Tonight will be the absolute first time I fire it up, and I do fancy checking out the FPS part.

If anyone has some advice here I'd be appreciative also.

This can be of great help: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitize..._citizen_alpha_20_universe_quick_start_guide/

All the controlls and info about the areas that there are to explore. ;)
 
Well what i was trying to say is that there still is a difference between SC and all these F2P scams if CR delivers a decent game.
I didn't try to make a moral statement. In the end every adult is responsible for himself, and i don't think SC is aimed at minors.

Totally agree on all this morality going on, like we live on any innocent world.

One thing, is, like those virtual online games for children or teens, where they put all the shiny VIP stuff and things like that behind a paywall, and the Marketing is so baiting-aggressive that many times, those children end up stealing their parents credit cards to buy things on such games. That should be spotted.

Another thing, is ADULTS, responsible for their own actions, and money. If some spends thousands on a game, and they do, on any MMO i know, and even worse on mobile/flashy games, it's fully up to them.
We are supposed to be responsible for our own actions, it's not like i see this Online Poker Website and just go there cause there's hot ladies on the pictures and get myself addicting to gambling.
 
Make a typical Mobile MP Game.
Make a typical monetization system of those games.
Put Hot Super Models on the Trailer of the Game.
Earn 1 Million Dollars a Day!

Also i don't think at all SC, not even Elite has player base of minors, neither do it appeals actually, a thing i learned from Space Sim communities is that the majority of the player base is much more mature.
So well, it's adults we're speaking of, you're as much influenced for the marketing of a game as you are on TV, or just walking around on a shopping mall, i don't get much of this discussion, the world we live in is moved by this, the gaming industry is just following the same thing the software industry already had followed.

On SC there's some pools you can find on the forum that points on 70% older than 25: http://i.imgur.com/OHFXByh.png

Oh aye - we're bombarded with messages every day.

Games are relatively unique in that they are interactive and, for a long while, we've treated them as pure novelties. While I'm aware that the guys making adverts really don't give a monkeys about my well being and are focused on getting me to spend/invest/commit, we seem to presume that game companies are still the 'bedroom developers', comprised of friendly folks whose goal is to share something amazing with the world, perhaps a nod back to the 'dawn of computer gaming'. And far too many gamers reward game developers with loyalty and credit their words because of it.

The reality is, and I hope we can all agree, when there's money on the table, jobs on the line then its very easy for the focus to shift to making that return/keeping investors happy first and foremost, with the entertainment and well being of the consumer dropping to a distant second. Especially when we're involved with entities such as corperations where the externalization of costs (financial or otherwise) is seen as 'smart business'.

Now in general I would like to believe folks are savvy consumers, aware of at least some of the tricks of the trade. Still, for some reason, there's a fair few of us (and I'd argue the 25+ are the majority in this case) that like to relate to game developers on a seemingly personal level - heck, they look like us, like what we like and make entertaing systems. What's not to like?

And of course, I know that the overwhelming majority are lovely people who mean us no harm, (unless, perhaps, you consistantly beat them at Carcassonne..)

However, it should be clear that today's game designers are part of a growing industry that specializes in creating systems of interactice experience and that said industry invests a considerable amount of effort into manipulating us. The key element word here is, 'interactive', something that differs the medium from literature, film, TV and so on (unless we're applying the word in a particular academic context). This element of interactivty places such systems in a position to become excellent tools for manipulation.

Of course, manipulation isn't intrinsically good, evil or cherry cola. Offer to tell me a joke and I'll hope you push my buttons and make me laugh.

But game development is a business. And one that is increasingly practicing techniques, with regards to design (rather than marketing, which is hardly unique to game design nor game developers) with the intent to manipulate not for our entertainment, but for to fill their pockets. Be it padding content through time sinks, grinding or gear checks, exploiting avoidance contingencies or emotional manipulation. All in order to maximise profits.

So yes! Interactive systems are well placed to provide amazing experiences. And we should always keep our guard up, an eye open, and our wits about us when dealing with them. And if we believe being older than another consumer protects us from an ever-improving, constantly refining system of manipualtion, be it good or bad? Then we're a perfect target! Or customer. Or audience. Or.. :D
 
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So yes! Interactive systems are well placed to provide amazing experiences. And we should always keep our guard up, an eye open, and our wits about us when dealing with them. And if we believe being older than another consumer protects us from an ever-improving, constantly refining system of manipualtion, be it good or bad? Then we're a perfect target! Or customer. Or audience. Or.. :D


It's always always, necessary to keep your guard up, and be smart. There's many discussion about what's been happening with this surrounding games, now the marketing machine is growing on the industry, the competition being so tight is also motivating that. I see that Gamers usually on the past times, got almost emotionally attached, to a game company, or a game title they most love, and once they realize... it's all about the money not about themselves, uh oh.

The fact we're not young ingenuous children, should be enough, it works the majority, there's always part that does get influenced and the part that just has the money for go with it and does so. It's like those people that sometimes knock at your door selling you magical products that will solve all your problems, what they do is not illegal, it's on your side to get past the "marketing". That's what i like to do, and i'm happy with my unique package of SC, being that my need, others want actual fleets to suit what they want or their organizations, others just want to back the game for higher amounts, and then there's the part who has no need but just spends more or just wants to have all the ships.
 
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It's always always, necessary to keep your guard up, and be smart. There's many discussion about what's been happening with this surrounding games, now the marketing machine is growing on the industry, the competition being so tight is also motivating that. I see that Gamers usually on the past times, got almost emotionally attached, to a game company, or a game title they most love, and once they realize... it's all about the money not about themselves, uh oh.

The fact we're not young ingenuous children, should be enough, it works the majority, there's always part that does get influenced and the part that just has the money for go with it and does so. It's like those people that sometimes knock at your door selling you magical products that will solve all your problems, what they do is not illegal, it's on your side to get past the "marketing". That's what i like to do, and i'm happy with my unique package of SC.
There's a reason that regulators exist. The idealist view that all adults should be able to detect all attempts to deceive and manipulate is extremely flawed. The people who get duped into believing the hype about a product or service (or, in the case of gambling, believing they can beat the odds) tend to be the ones who believe they're infallible and can't see their own shortcomings.

In many cases, there's a fine line between "illegal" and "unethical" and just because you *can* do something within the framework of the law doesn't mean you *should*. I think many would agree that F2P games like Candy Crush are unethical in their manipulation of their users into spending money by introducing artificial time constraints, but as you say there's nothing illegal about it. There's nothing illegal about casinos allowing a punter to spend all their money and put themselves into financial difficulty, but at least that industry has realised the futility of such a thing and so self-regulate to ensure that their customers are in a position to keep coming back.

The debate around CIG is whether their marketing strategy is ethically sound. I don't have a problem with them selling ships, but I do have a problem with the stupid prices of those ships (putting them squarely into the luxury goods bracket) and with no limit on the delivery schedule of them. They have no regulation in place to verify that their consumers are in a position to pay for their goods, but they've manipulated a position where addiction requires their consumers to buy more. "Ooh, this ship is even better than the one I already have, I must trade up!". It isn't illegal but neither is it ethical (IMO).
 
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