UA Mystery thread 4 - The Canonn

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CMDR Runcible Shaw

CMDR Runcible Shaw
fyo said:
(Go away for the weekend and the thread falls off the front page for the first time in who knows how long, "only" 4 pages to catch up on)

No, you are wrong ;)

The answer is much simpler. I'm an idiot.

I was referring to time dilation, and I was claiming that the equation was wrong (well, the values were wrong, due to time dilation). But, like I said, I appear to have had my head up my own backside. See, for some reason I'm having trouble understanding now, I applied the time dilation in such a way as to reduce the amount of time the Generation Ships had been flying. I've duly rep'ed the offended parties as part of my punishment ;)



And as I've said here before, I never really liked it. I think a large part of it was the way we were taught it. SR is extremely exciting and I had expected (and still expect) to like it. Concepts I only learned later on would have been extremely helpful at the time and probably enabled me to enjoy SR as much as I felt I should have. Fundamentally, I still don't feel any SR textbook I've ever seen handles the "clock postulate", instead resorting to a whole lot of handwaving.

In this particular context, which is pretty much (half) the classic Twin (non-)Paradox, for example, pretty much every SR text will completely handwave what happens during the acceleration and deceleration. Neither of the two "original" underpinning postulates of SR cover, for example, what the speed of light is during acceleration. (For reference, the two postulates are: 1) The laws of physics are the same in all inertial frames of reference. 2) The speed of light is constant in all inertial frames of reference.). Some texts even claim that the clock postulate (or, indeed, the invariance of the Minkowski line element) is a result of General Relativity, while it is in fact an assumption upon which it is based (wherefore using it to derive such an invariance is circular logic at its best).

No, SR was never really my cup of tea. I can honestly say that I've always found quantum physics much more intuitive.
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Yeah, I was always under the impression that the twin paradox and accelerating frames and all that were sort of resolved by GR.

Also, if you ever want to do some QM work for me for fun I'll send it your way.

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Edith_The_Hutt said:
There's a rather good book called Einstein's Mirror, which is a solid introduction to Special (and a little bit of General) Relativity aimed mainly at an undergrad/2nd year A-level audience.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Einsteins-Mirror-Tony-Hey/dp/0521435323

I highly recommend it for anyone who'd like to study more about SR without ploughing through an entire physics degree or a TV special with Dara O'Brien and Brian Cox.
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I've actually been watching the Leonard Susskind GR lectures in my spare time. They go from zero to difficult pretty quickly and I had to put them aside as life happened for the last few months (sort of like ED). I would really like to put on the lectures and take notes while I'm cruising toward Sag A*. Soon... soon...
 

CMDR Runcible Shaw

CMDR Runcible Shaw
Silent Pact said:
Hmmm, so excuse me whilst I hunker down behind this everything-proof thingamawhatsit......
Right then <safely ensconced>
I'm always a little sceptical of the sort of post that runs along the lines of 'has anyone done' this or that or the other.

Look Commanders: Many people have done lots of STUFF™, but discoveries are made by people actually doing the STUFF™, not merely suggesting that others go do it.

You get me? <more wandering off muttering about swodding trolls>
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I was one of the people suggesting recording the sounds of affected stations and/or the sounds of UAs near affected station, but only because I'm too far away from the bubble to do it myself. There's not really any fun CGs or mysteries it seems yet for ships way out in the black. (Although the black is starting to get less and less black as I move toward Sag A*). I try to keep up with the thread and I'd like to think I'm helping by suggesting something I don't think I've seen carried out yet. And, if it's been done and I missed it just tell me to go read the wiki.
 

Ayal

A
rizal72 said:
Yes, and Santa Claus is affiliated with Archon Delaine. He likes Pirating fancy colored ribbon striped Canisters from others' CMDRs sledges...
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Hang on did you really discover something when you dropped a UA near the shut down station or are you just joking ?
If there is anything useful rival please share it with me in a private message because I'm going to merope and any info I can get
 

rizal72

rizal72
CMDR Runcible Shaw said:
I was one of the people suggesting recording the sounds of affected stations and/or the sounds of UAs near affected station, but only because I'm too far away from the bubble to do it myself. There's not really any fun CGs or mysteries it seems yet for ships way out in the black. (Although the black is starting to get less and less black as I move toward Sag A*). I try to keep up with the thread and I'd like to think I'm helping by suggesting something I don't think I've seen carried out yet. And, if it's been done and I missed it just tell me to go read the wiki.
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I did the experiment a couple posts ago. Nothing new in UA behavior.

Ayal said:
Hang on did you really discover something when you dropped a UA near the shut down station or are you just joking ?
If there is anything useful rival please share it with me in a private message because I'm going to merope and any info I can get
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Joking. Nothing new.
BTW the Kellbeck did not behave as expected, at least, not like as a T-ship should.
 

Derthek

Derthek
Found in Merope, does this mean anything to you guys?

alien.jpg
lmao Jk
 

LordZoltan

LordZoltan
So Sirius Inc says Arc is made up - loons.

And they wonder why so many of my Galnets get posted? Uh... Well obviously it's because I bribe them right!? Or... Good ideas & high quality collaboratively edited text (usually by between 2-5 Canonneers, including one or two of my fellow Councillors usually). It's not hard when you're part of a group with so many talented people (Choc Chip Cookies all round, people! O7)

Separately...

We need official Ambassadors to other groups please... People with proven pedigrees on the threadnoughts (not necessarily long histories, but people who've shown an approach which is in line with how the Canonn works), or on our site. The Council, and the wider membership/research team takes the identity and ethos of our group very seriously, and it's essential that everybody is 'on message'.

Yeah, I know - dull as ditchwater - but a lot of people have invested a lot of time in the Canonn - and its key for us that we honour that, for every member (spirit of cooperation, etc). Register your interest on our forums at http://canonn.science (registering first if you haven't already)
 

yoda711

yoda711
ok so I think I might have found something.

went to Lobachevsy Outpost (operational now) and listened. maybe there's something there, maybe not, but here's the more interesting part. I went on to Weyn Dock (shut down station) and noticed a clear lack of sound, at least compared to Lobachevsky. But that's not what struck me. LOOK AT THE STATION LIGHTS!

[video=youtube_share;Lg7W6lYL2c4]https://youtu.be/Lg7W6lYL2c4[/video]

Definitely something going on there. Just to be sure, I found another unaffected station of the same type. Notice its lights are not flashing. This is England Hub in Jataya:

[video=youtube_share;YF31MW5-K2A]https://youtu.be/YF31MW5-K2A[/video]

edit: just went back to Weyn dock and the lights aren't behaving the same as before. some are flashing, some aren't.
 
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Derthek

Derthek
Unlike normal stations, Anarchy stations flash their lights. My guess is to give the station a run down look. Tis quite normal :)
 

DerryBear

DerryBear
But has the flashing changed rhythm or anything. Have we compared the flashes of an unaffected anarchy system to a non affected anarchy system.

Since the first major breakthrough was audio the next might be visual morse?

My tinfoil is tingling :)
 
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tafkabb

T
Patau82 said:
Wolf 1301 is run by an xbox player faction maybe they've been selling UAs there or were targeted
Wolf 1301 used to sell the rare commodity wolf fesh, it was blocked by a Democracy faction that took the system a few months back and is now being blocked by the player faction as they are Democracy too
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Saunders's Dive at Wolf 1301 has been targetted by a loosely organised coalition of forces. Numbers of UA unknown. At least 65 according to one source. Numbers of contributors unknown. Several hostile factions involved.
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
@Various, economy of my station is Industrial/Extraction. I believe there's nothing unique about it's economy that other infected stations wouldn't have.

So why did Harma work and the test stations not
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In my opinion, because of exactly why my secret station hasn't failed; events around station failures are FD injected, not player generated i.e we have no agency over them.

In case it's being interpreted this way; I'm not being critical of FD if this is indeed the case, simply that our agency in the plot has considerable impact on what we can do about the station failures.

PLEASE NOTE: Kaffe updated the numbers. Over 500 UAs were sold at their target system!
About 160 in the span of 24 hours ending today about 17:00 GMT.

Sorry that is incorrect, I had the wrong facts. Its closer to about 5 or 600. The timeframe is correct.
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So, I honestly don't think it matters. When I started my test, I kicked off with 13 sales. This is fairly early days where selling UA's en masse hadn't really caught on. Then someone suggested that might not be enough, and 100 might be closer to the figure, so I upped it to 100. Then some started suggesting 100 wasn't enough, so I upped it to 200, and so on and so forth. You could play this game forever, to be honest. The critical thing is; stations have kept failing throughout this number escalation game, and they've all been mentioned publicly in some way. As they keep cropping up, it'll become harder to track how they've been coming up (maybe it's as simple as now players emailing FD groups to say they've been selling UAs at a station).

I'll be incredibly keen to see how FD react when I post my Galnet article tomorrow night. Knowing my luck, it'll be the same as when I wrote about discovering the morse :p
 
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rizal72

rizal72
Ok, just to put a bit of salt on the thread, here is the only NEW thing I've discovered in 2.0 beta, coming out today, btw.
It's not a game changer, but it's important, because it means FD added new content to the UA.

The Kellback, despite being a kind of T9 ship, does not produce the closest object name in the UA morse, but...
it has its own whole new drawing!
It's a drawing made by a lot of sequences, I decoded just the first part, then I stopped, waiting for official release:

Code: 
BOCNCP BOCPBQ BQCPCR 
CNEMEO CNEOCP CPEOFQ 
CPFQFS CPFSCR EKGJGN 
EKGNEM EMGNEO EOGNHP 
EOHPFQ FQHPIP FQIPMS 
FQMSHS FQSSES GJJIIK 
GJIKIN GJINGN GNINHP 
HPINIP HSOSIT IKJIJK

you can use the drawer tool to see part of the new drawing:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1402878/UA_draw.html

Just let me remember you that all the new ships introduced in 1.4 (The Imperial Eagle, the FAS, the Gunship) did not have their own drawing, but used other ships drawings (Eagle and Dropship).

That's why I'm saying they added new content in the form of new drawing sequences.
We shall see if Cobra MKIV, Viper MKIV and Asp Scout will have new drawings as well, or will use existing ones.

The T6, still produces the morse of the nearest object name.
 
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Han_Zen

Han_Zen
Jmanis said:
@Various, economy of my station is Industrial/Extraction. I believe there's nothing unique about it's economy that other infected stations wouldn't have.


In my opinion, because of exactly why my secret station hasn't failed; events around station failures are FD injected, not player generated i.e we have no agency over them.

In case it's being interpreted this way; I'm not being critical of FD if this is indeed the case, simply that our agency in the plot has considerable impact on what we can do about the station failures.



So, I honestly don't think it matters. When I started my test, I kicked off with 13 sales. This is fairly early days where selling UA's en masse hadn't really caught on. Then someone suggested that might not be enough, and 100 might be closer to the figure, so I upped it to 100. Then some started suggesting 100 wasn't enough, so I upped it to 200, and so on and so forth. You could play this game forever, to be honest. The critical thing is; stations have kept failing throughout this number escalation game, and they've all been mentioned publicly in some way. As they keep cropping up, it'll become harder to track how they've been coming up (maybe it's as simple as now players emailing FD groups to say they've been selling UAs at a station).

I'll be incredibly keen to see how FD react when I post my Galnet article tomorrow night. Knowing my luck, it'll be the same as when I wrote about discovering the morse :p
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GalNet articles are manually generated for most part. None of the station problem reports seem auto generated. Any game-mechanic has to be connected to shut down, not issue report.

Reading that the Imps. dumped more than 500 units in Harma and the station did not go directly to shut down, makes me think that there is a time factor as well.

I don't doubt that at least a 1000 units have been sold at 49 and 64. Warky and Arawere on the other hand, no way. They are either NPC affected or just turned off for story reasons.

The essence of story that FD is telling is that humans will act irresponsibly when faced with a new challenge . Some out of curiosity, some out of greed and some out of malice. It's up to the players in some sense, but FD are nudging us in the 'wrong' direction. :eek:

The UA itself probably don't have any intent at all except surviving, spreading and growing. It can probably be used for both 'good' and 'bad' or we can chose to leave it alone.

We are the Canonn. Our mission is to find out all possible aspects of the UA. The players of Elite will chose how they use that knowledge.
 
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