Hardware & Technical The Sony VR Headset discussion thread

[Tom Sloman]

Morpheus VR demos running "higher than 1080p" on PS4 hardware.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-03-21-talking-project-morpheus-with-anton-mikhailov
And Sony are basically saying what I have said about PC and console comparisons, something that PC fanboys don't get. Console software gets better as the years go by, PC gets worse.
Also
"There's also another belief that people think it takes twice the power to render stereo - that's not true because your physics, your AI, everything runs once when you're rendering stereo, and a lot of the graphics even only run once."

Interesting read, but you are misquoting them. Nowhere did they say that are running VR at resolutions above 1080p. All they said was they have run THE GAME at 60 fps, and in SOME CASES above 1080p, with NO MENTION of VR in that statement. Of course, Sony have already stated their dev kit is 1080p and you CANNOT run anything above that. They have not mentioned any plans at all to increase from 1080p.

They don't say that console software gets better while computer software gets worse. What you are saying is an outright fabrication and is not reflected with what is said in the article. What they ACTUALLY say is that a lot of the PS4 performance issues are because these are launch titles on a new platform and developers don't yet know how to optimise their code, but they will learn to over time. Absolutely nowhere does it say that computer software gets worse over time, as you fabricated. In fact, what's actually said is that computer hardware gets upgraded over time to be a lot better, but PS4 is fixed, but it's not as much of a problem because developers will learn optimisation tricks to make it good enough. Couple that with the lower resolution and lower frame rate of Sony VR, and the fact that they can just lower the fidelity in-game to make it run faster (something like medium settings on all the rendering), then i imagine it will be a smooth and immersive experience, even if not quite as beautiful and a little lower-end as it will be on computers.

This article also proves one of your earlier statements to be an outright lie. You stated that Sony already have confirmed plans to change the display to OLED (but failed to provide links). This article proves that you lied, because it states that they are only researching OLED as a possibility and says NOTHING about these confirmed plans you told us all about earlier. They also acknowledge that the current screen suffers from blur due to the lower quality screen.

Neither Sony nor Oculus have give any specs whatsoever of their VR hardware, and you are saying Oculus is better. All we have had is dev kit specs.
You are just making up your own opinion. Which is fine.
Oculus are not bringing VR to everyone, they have said they are not supporting consoles.

Absolutely everything you said there is demonstrably FALSE, and you know it. It's been pointed out to you time and again and you are STILL making totally false statements.

BOTH Sony and Oculus HAVE given specs on their current dev kits, and have spoken about what they are aiming for in their retail releases. That is the total opposite of your statement of giving no specs whatsoever.

I am not making up my own opinions when it comes to the frame rate and persistence of the screens, as well as the PUBLIC STATEMENTS about aiming for a higher resolution and even better frame rate, and that the Sony one is pretty much aiming for a "good experience" at 1080p60. These are all pretty much reinforced by EVERYTHING being publicly stated about both products, including the article you posted earlier. If you have something to dispute, then by all means please make the specific dispute known and give us your sources and then we can discuss your claims.

Oculus have NOT said they will never support consoles. They don't even preclude phones and tablets. What they are doing is concentrating on computer platforms during dev, the same as ED are doing, and other platforms are left entirely open for later, after launch. Sony is basically doing this same thing also, with them developing on PS4 now, but leaving other platforms open in the future (even going so far as demoing with PC titles in their first presentation). They HAVE publicly stated that they want to make the Rift very cheap so that it IS affordable to everyone. That doesn't mean that everyone MUST buy one, as you falsely try to assert. It just means that pretty much anyone COULD afford one.

If you have any reason at all to think i am mistaken about something, you can post links to your source, or ask me for mine (or do a simple search, it's all public record), when discussing it. Simply making up absolute nonsense because you WISH it to be so is entirely pointless. I am not speculating about anything here (except things like price, where i specifically SAY it's purely a guess and we'll see when retail is out), i am reflecting on public statements and things that are currently known, you are just making up stuff that is very easily proven false.

 

[jabokai]

Unfortunately the PC is dropping further and further from the mainstream ... the best technology doesn't always win, Betamax anyone?

Eh? PC gaming is on the rise! Where do you people get these assumptions? Are you still living back in the day when consoles were introduced and they certainly did have an impact on PC gaming?

Do some research before making outdated claims.

What is Oculus's business model, how do they intend to make money from the Rift? Will it have a profit margin? If so it will be more expensive than the Sony VR, Sony's hardware will be sold at a cost loss. And will make profit from licensed software sales.
I have always maintained Sony will be cheaper than Oculus.

They say their primary goal is to produce the best VR experience they can and sell it at a price low enough so they keep existing as a company. I'm sure they would like to make a decent profit but it certainly seems as if they're not being greedy.

Interesting! But then again, if you consider you can buy a whole digital TV box now for £9.99, the production cost of this unit might be tiny,

And as previously said, with its dedicated processing, we may well find it offers an advantage over current generation PC graphics cards that do not have VR hardware.

Are you having a laugh? Did you actually listen to what the guy was saying in that link? He told us what the box did - it takes one half of the distorted image intended for the headset (one eye's view) and bends it back into shape for outputting to a regular TV. That's it!

 

[Beachlight7]

I've laid down my stance clearly enough, I guess E3 is the next big event for new announcements and demonstrations from Sony and Oculus, and their "friendly competition".

 

[Tom Sloman]

I've laid down my stance clearly enough, I guess E3 is the next big event for new announcements and demonstrations from Sony and Oculus, and their "friendly competition".

Yes, you did. Very clearly.

Your stance is pretty much entirely fabrications and lies, that have been proven false even by the links that you provided to "support" your own false claims.

Not sure why you put quotes around "friendly competition". I don't see any reason why they both wouldn't actually be on good terms with each other and helping each other out. Yes, their products will start to overlap down the road, but they are aiming for totally separate markets right now. Besides that, there's PLENTY of room for two players, ten players even, if it becomes a big thing, which i suspect it will. 3D TV sucked, and has pretty much died now. But VR is not only about 3D, it's about presence inside a world, and i think that will be a huge big deal in making VR take off now the technology can properly present it to us. I imagine both Sony and Oculus are genuinely rooting for each other, and that anything making good ground in VR acceptance helps the entire medium grow and helps all players.

As for the Sony VR specifically, i think it's going to end up being a good experience. Although, as discussed widely already, the hardware limits of the PS4 may lead to more arcady titles on that platform, with a lot more sim stuff on the more capable computer platforms, with probably a lot of overlap in educational things like solar system simulators and shark tanks, etc. Sure, you'll get arcady titles on computer and sim titles on PS4, but i just feel, given what we currently know, that is what it will naturally start to head towards.

I can even see myself maybe buying a PS4 and Sony VR one day. Cheaply and second-hand, to play multiplayer in ED (if it ever comes to PS4), if it was "good enough" for second and third players (all night drinking ED party, yay!). Things like having to pay Sony subscriptions just to play my games might put me off though (by that time you might be able to get a laptop and OR for under £500 new that plays well).

 

[Tony Spaniels]

Oculus Christmas

Finally figured out how to post pictures!

My dad having a whale of a time playing WarThunder with his DK1 and X52 xmas present combo extravaganza..

P.s Thank you T.j for the top tips!

 

[NeilF]

^^ Interesting! What sort of frame rate does he get out of the OR. And what frame rate would he get if he instead used the screen? ie: What sort of hit does the OC create?

 

[Tony Spaniels]

^^ Interesting! What sort of frame rate does he get out of the OR. And what frame rate would he get if he instead used the screen? ie: What sort of hit does the OC create?

On his laptop he needed to put the settings down to medium with the odd heavy lifting setting turned to low, to run a smooth 60fps (it still looked good though, its a beautiful game).
If he played it on the laptop screen he could push the settings up to high with the odd setting turned to medium and still have a smooth 60fps.

 

[Memnoch]

Console software gets better as the years go by, PC gets worse.

*Cough*Dark Souls 2*Cough*

 

[Slawkenbergius]

*Cough*Dark Souls 2*Cough*

I really hope the PC version doesn't get the massive visual downrez inflicted upon it...

 

[Beachlight7]

What down rez?
Dark souls was 1024x720, dark souls 2 1280x720. About a 25% increase in resolution with no hardware changes.
There hasnt been a dark souls on PS4 yet so whatever it is will be the base resolution and in a few year should see the graphics get even better on the same hardware.

 

[Memnoch]

Since this is in off topic anyway, and kind of hardware related, Bamco presented a demo last year that showed a graphics engine with dynamic lighting effects. It was later shown though that this was running on a PC not a console. However come the release date it appears that From Software had some serious problems getting the game to even run at a consistent 30fps and had to rip out the lighting engine. Otherwise the entire game would have been like Blighttown.

Beachlight7, don't even bother trying to deny any of this happening because From and Bamco have admitted this in a public statement. This is now all history.

What remains now is have the screwed up the PC "port".

Anyway, back on top and the Sony VR headset. Errr, I won't be buying it. Getting an Oculus DK2 instead to go with my Oculus DK1!

 

[Slawkenbergius]

To hopefully save some arguments, I'll hold my hands up, and say that I misused a technical term. Visual downgrade would have been a better way of describing what's happened. Same with Watchdogs for PS4, though to a certain extent that just seems like a case of the Ubisoft hype train, as with the latest ASS_Creed_XMLVII footage.

/offtopic

 

[Beachlight7]

There has not been a downgrade in anyway of any PS3 or PS4 game.
A demo on a PC is not a console game.
You can only compare a game buy-able in a shop with a PS logo on it, and then how it gets better in time on the same hardware. It never gets worse.

Watchdogs has not even released yet, the first base level of quality will be when it releases, then it can be judged from that point.

 

[Tom Sloman]

There has not been a downgrade in anyway of any PS3 or PS4 game.

It's WELL KNOWN that this FREQUENTLY occurs. NOT ONLY with ports from PC being downgraded to run on mid-range Playstation hardware, but also in the other direction, with console ports to PC often having higher fidelity, to take advantage of the better hardware.

If all you are going to do it BLATANTLY LIE like this, then there's simply no point in even bothering to post anything at all.

Pretty much every single claim you have made has been completely refuted, and even your own links show you to be purposefully misrepresenting the facts. I guess you thought people wouldn't actually look at the links you posted, but they did. You have not even bothered to retract the things you've been proven wrong on, and you are still continuing to make utterly false statements.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Not to be rude Beachlight, but if you don't even have one, why is it so important to you, and how can you have such lengthy experience with it?

I have one sitting right here. It is certainly no PC-killer, under any circumstances whatsoever.

 

[Sir.Tj]

Finally figured out how to post pictures!

My dad having a whale of a time playing WarThunder with his DK1 and X52 xmas present combo extravaganza..

P.s Thank you T.j for the top tips!

Looking good.

And no problem. Glad you managed to post he images.

 

[Beachlight7]

Not to be rude Beachlight, but if you don't even have one, why is it so important to you, and how can you have such lengthy experience with it?

I have one sitting right here. It is certainly no PC-killer, under any circumstances whatsoever.

I have a PS3. I have plans to get the PS4, so it's in my interest and have read all about it. I am a worldwide expert on everything so like to comment.

 

[Rog]

OT:
@Beachlight: you've had all your threads at SC locked for PS4 forum spam, you expend vast amounts of effort there trying to get them to make SC for your PS4 (that you don't own), you do the same here for E: D.

The song remains the same, and without being rude at all, it is boring the fundamentals out of at least me, and quite possibly others.

Suggestion: buy a PC. A mid-range one is already more powerful than PS4. We will help you choose components and build one if you want.

You will then be able to play SC and E: D with absolutely no hassle. You will, on release be able to purchase an Oculus Rift. You will save money in the medium, let alone the long term (seen PS4 game prices?)

You will own something that can be relatively cutting-edge for years, and certainly far more able to give you a terrific gaming experience. You can even use your gamepads if you really want, and you won't be locked in to a console vendors walled garden.

On top of that, a PC will let you do pretty much anything else you want to do with it - unlike a console.

 

[Beachlight7]

OT:
@Beachlight: you've had all your threads at SC locked for PS4 forum spam, you expend vast amounts of effort there trying to get them to make SC for your PS4 (that you don't own), you do the same here for E: D.

The song remains the same, and without being rude at all, it is boring the fundamentals out of at least me, and quite possibly others.

Suggestion: buy a PC. A mid-range one is already more powerful than PS4. We will help you choose components and build one if you want.

You will then be able to play SC and E: D with absolutely no hassle. You will, on release be able to purchase an Oculus Rift. You will save money in the medium, let alone the long term (seen PS4 game prices?)

You will own something that can be relatively cutting-edge for years, and certainly far more able to give you a terrific gaming experience. You can even use your gamepads if you really want, and you won't be locked in to a console vendors walled garden.

On top of that, a PC will let you do pretty much anything else you want to do with it - unlike a console.

Hmmm, I'll throw a ball at Braben, if there has been no official mention of plans to make PS4 Elite by May the 4th or Gamma release, then maybe I will consider getting a PC. But I would have to insist on it being a complete system (not monitor) for £329 (cheapest I have seen PS4 at sale). It would have to be at least 3tflops of performance. Have 3GB+ of GDDR5. And AMD mantle or Directx 12 optimisation.
Dont get me wrong I will consider it.
And of course will wait for specs and prices and release dates of Sony VR and Oculus Rift commercial models.
Might have to wait till June for that information, it's important to know for decisions.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Try one of these: