Hang on...what happened to shields?

[digitalscream]

Thank you. Does this mean this only happens when there's more than 1 shield cell module installed?

No, they generate all that heat when you only fire one. However, if you fire more than one at the same time (shield cells fire in parallel if multiple modules are installed and active, as opposed to chaff which fires in series), the heat generated will cause module failures all over the place.

 

[sqzbox1]

I'm beginning to think it's the rails. The new viper mk4 is pretty tough too. I just spent some time in a HazRes and it was just like before for me. Anacondas and FAS's and so on don't usually pack those but in the CZ's some Asps and Cobras do, along with Vipers and Vultures and, would you believe it, iEagles as well. And the blighters never miss - which is odd considering they only come in a fixed format.

 

[digitalscream]

I'm beginning to think it's the rails. The new viper mk4 is pretty tough too. I just spent some time in a HazRes and it was just like before for me. Anacondas and FAS's and so on don't usually pack those but in the CZ's some Asps and Cobras do, along with Vipers and Vultures and, would you believe it, iEagles as well. And the blighters never miss - which is odd considering they only come in a fixed format.

No, it's not the rails - that problem has been around since 1.4. If you read most of the posts where people are saying it's a problem, the NPCs in question didn't have rails, just bog-standard pulses and beams.

 

[Jesse Blue]

Also...my A4 shield cell barely even managed to fill one ring of my shields - less than a third of the 1.4 refill - whereas (to my understanding) they're supposed to be filling twice the amount of shield energy (ie same power output, twice the active time).

Short Story:

- FD: Ok guys, we tweaked SCBs. Now they generate much heat, but last twice.
- Playerbase: Nice, Thanks.... OMG! SCBs now really roast your ship... We'll use stacks of lower rank SCBs to not generate that much heat.
- FD: Hey guys, we tweaked SCBs again to punish players that stack low class SCBs to lower heat generation. Now, SCBs up to class 3 provide ridiculous recharges, and class 4 provides the same charge as before.
- Players with small ships: WHAT THE FKKKK?

 

[Iskariot]

I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of pirates suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I believe something wonderful has happened

I am not a pirate at all, but if it's true it is not wonderful at all.
I loved to use the Vulture in CZ's. It needs it's shields. When they are gone it is toast.

 

[rucky]

Sorry folks, but the playerbase HAD spoken.

Now live with it.

Yes it's sarcastic. But I've told ya so.

from here:

Spoiler

In short my points of view:

- PVE in RES can be done even without SCB because it's your JOB there to pick your target or leave them alone.
- PVE in CZ for 90% of time can also be done with very limited use of SCBs, because oh yes, the AI is even at Elite NOT REALLY GOOD!
- BUT!

PVE in CZ (even better the High Intensity ones) CAN be very dangerous (and in my experience it's in about 10% of my time there).
That is the time you will get chased by multiple (mostly 4) targets all at once.

Yes some say, now LEAVE you're not intented to win that fight. Yes but that's YOUR opinion.
You're right that PVE IS -MOSTLY- a grindfest.
But THESE 10% are the salt, the flavor I like in battling AI ships, and ONLY in numbers the AI will get strong against you.
THIS is where I do have my best times, because I do NOT flee (mostly) when I come in such a situation. (only 4 deaths, 2 where from Loitering (getting through that letterbox with a newly bought Anni....), the other two from SSS, these damn 7 Vultures ;-)

Now I have to. ALWAYS. Is this FUN for you, FLEEING ?!
I'm at about 3000 kills in CZs (no deaths) and 1400 kills in bounty hunting, so I know something about fighting there.

I'm flying a tanked FAS (as shown in my Sig); FASs do have bad shields, now I have to exchange shield boosters with heat sink launchers, so even LESS SHIELDS.
So some say, hull tanking is way more better!
I've had powerplant shutdowns, thruster malfunctions e.a. even with Hull > 85% and you say it's nearly safe with armour ?!

PVE DOES get an impact from the SCB Nerf. And I think anyone who disagree hasn't played HI-CZs or likes to run away very often.
It's okay for you. But not for me.

BUT! Sandro has said there will we some changes in 1.5beta3 so... hope is still here...

or here:

Spoiler

All I do hear is PVP here and there, 1v1, Wing v Wing.
Then GluttonyFang, PVP man, saying this SCB Nerf is way too much.

Then others do say, Elite ist build mainly around PVE and there these SCBs are way overpowered.



Are you PVE guys really playing high CZs since 1.4 ? Really?
Surprisingly I have to concede with GluttonyFang here, because... yes, WING PVE. better said Multi PVE as I call it.

This Example right now directly from the 1.5 Beta.
I've bought that mighty Fed. Corvette, outfitted it mostly A rated, couldn't find better gear, so I thought this should be enough to try some High CZs.

After less than 20min I had to leave.

First some small targets, were melted really fast, some Vulture, some Viper, then a Phython, all not a problem, then an Anaconda, also not really a problem, but it got my shields down to 1 ring; I couldn't stay behind her all the time.
Then I targetted the next Python beginning to strip his shields.
And then the MULTI PVE as I call it started, another Python starts full attack (no turret fire, full scale), one Elite Vulture, at least one PA equipped ASP (you hear that Sound) and another one OR some similar ship, didn't see him right.

I fired doubled SCBs (6A + 5B = 365 MJ of 1814 MJ full, that's not even 1 Ring!), fired double Heat Sink to compensate, still got over 150 Heat and a bit damage, but not even one second after the SCBs activated this Ring was gone too and they started to melt my Hull.
I could escape with 34% Hull.

So this is the new Way of PVE. Like PVP. RUNNING AWAY.
Yes I see, I'm alive and can rearm and rejoin the battle at a different "instance".

BUT I do like when I can fight longer, when I can finish all these attackers of. IN PVE. And in 1.4 I can it and I do it. And this not in a mighty Corvette but in an armored FAS. And I have FUN with it!
Because of this Nerf it's not possible anymore.

I'm really disappointed.

or here:

Spoiler

You haven't flown much in CZs do you? Fighting elite anacondas often means you get attacked by additional 1-3 smaller supporting crafts (or could be I only have bad luck here), that means your 400 MJ shield will be gone faster than you do have advantage in this additional but still even too small shield recharge rate. Yes I could try spamming chaffs to distract annis turrets (ASP and Vipers always have fixed for me), and yes thats the only situation I NEED additional shield strength to kill these groups of ASP, Viper and Anaconda without loosing armor (what still wouldn't be a problem when you're in a mil spec FAS btw.)
Yes, in ANY other situation with mostly a 3/-/3 Pip config I won't get touched too much by any AI and won't need even that double recharge rate.
But in these occasional special DANGEROUS situations... I LIKE TO HAVE THAT SAVE BUTTON for that. Because I DO NOT flee (eh... mostly ;-) Call be mimmi, doesn't matter.

there're more, many more, multiple threads about this topic. The "majority" had spoken, now live with it.

that's live.
...eh life.
...eh... whatever...

 

[archeolog108]

Time to kill shortened.

 

[Hexcaliber]

Grab that stick, and pull it out, ok? I didn't say he couldn't post anything, I said he needed to BUG REPORT IT, as did others, and we all said it for the same reason, complaining there doesn't get it fixed. SOME of us aren't experiencing the same thing, I'm not and I'm in a Python with only 5A shields and 2 boosters, oddly enough, they do just fine against NPCs in 2.0. Either it's the pilot or there's a bug, report it, and stop telling those of us who aren't having the problem to get lost.

I'm starting to think it really IS a pilot issue, comprehension of those afflicted would support that hypothesis it seems.

There is nothing wrong with my comprehension, nor my attitude, I was well aware others had told the op to bug report it, as was the op, I didn't need you to pipe in and tell me, but you felt the need to do so anyway. Further, this is a public forum for open discussion, people are going to discuss issues, whether you agree with them or not, and most will do so constructively without being dismissive or elitist. The op asked a question, and you called it complaining, then you go on to infer that you must somehow be a better pilot not having experienced an issue yourself; the only one that has a stick in need of removal is you, assuming you can reach it.

 

[Red Fox Four]

Rubbish! There are drawbacks to the Vulture - if you want to do anything other than combat, it's useless. It's not even any good for piracy, because there's no cargo room in a Vulture capable of surviving a PvP fight.

As a pure combat ship at ~5mil, it should completely outclass all the (much) cheaper combat and multirole ships. In any case, try fighting a skilled CMDR in a Viper - it's often a fairly even fight. The last Vulture vs Viper fight I got into lasted nearly 20 minutes, and was a proper cat-and-mouse game until I finally found a tactic which worked.

The FDL's agility buff makes it a direct upgrade for the Vulture, as is the FAS. In particular, the FAS is basically impossible to kill with a Vulture; I've never seen a CMDR vs CMDR battle with a Vulture beating a FAS.

The Python has enough big guns that it's a seriously tough opponent, and the hull is strong enough that it can easily get away without even bothering to fight after its shields go down.

All of this says to me that it's exactly where it needs to be. If they were to nerf it so that it was no more effective than the cheaper multiroles, then it would be essentially useless...just like the plurality we have with all the 2M + 2S hardpoint ships in the sub-1mil range.

No other ship, except larger ones, come close to the combat performance of the Vulture.

This makes the Vulture the only choice if you want to do combat without investing in a huge ship at ten times the base price (FdL).

Also, cargo being the drawback of the Vulture... all the smaller ships have issues with Cargo Capacity. Obviously, as they aren't meant for cargo transporting (except Hauler, and partly the Adder).

Point is... there needs to be a ship that rivals the Vulture, and thus gives it some competition rather than being the only valid choice for combat pilots to grind towards. Whether that should be an existing ship, a new ship, or the Vulture being toned down is up to Frontier.

Game is already extremely linear in terms of ship progression, and the Vulture sitting alone at the top of the small ships in combat performance simply proves the point.

Rather than just adding bigger ships the smaller ship lineup, especially in the combat performance bracket where the Vulture reigns supreme, can be fleshed out to give players choice, rather than singular goals to grind towards.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

This really should not need saying, but there have been undocumented changes to ED in the past. Do not dismiss the notion of changes simply because they were not mentioned in patch notes. It wouldn't be the first time, and I am sure it wont be the last.

Duly +1'd

 

[Ralph Vargr]

No - not happy about it at all at all! My Braben et al really do need to remember that the majority of players are not going to be combat maestros - just your average Joe Blow. And I do realise that it has to be Dangerous - no problem with that - truly - but the balance seems to have swung too far now.

You just discovered this?

 

[Mortmal]

Had the same issue yesterday, got interdicted by security for a 600 fine cause of getting to close with my ship to a planetary structure.... Usually its no trouble i could just boost away but no they blew up my shield in one sec and was out at 90% hull, never seen that happen so fast before. I usually do combat zones with not much trouble .

 

[CariadocThorne]

Yes! Hence asking if anybody had come across the issue!!!!!! You're also neatly side-stepping the fact that just as many people have posted that this is affecting them, which suggests there's something else going on here.

How is asking that question moaning and whining? I'm trying to figure out if it's a deliberate change (in which case there's no point raising a bug report), my imagination (again, no point in a bug report) or a bug (yes, bug report is logical here). As it is, I don't have enough information to put together a useful bug report for the devs, and - being a developer myself - I'm not going to raise a woolly report on what could well be a Heisenbug.

There's something seriously wrong in a community when trying to gather information is repeatedly characterised as moaning and whining.

Ok, several people have said it is effecting them. several others say not. Still very obvious there is a bug at work here.

Asking about strange phenomena in the game to establish whether it is a bug or not is fine. But when several people have responded each way, it is clearly a bug, and to then refuse to file a bug report, and instead keep complaining about it here, that IS moaning and whining.

 

[digitalscream]

Ok, several people have said it is effecting them. several others say not. Still very obvious there is a bug at work here.

Asking about strange phenomena in the game to establish whether it is a bug or not is fine. But when several people have responded each way, it is clearly a bug, and to then refuse to file a bug report, and instead keep complaining about it here, that IS moaning and whining.

Who's refusing to file a report? The fact that there's probably a bug at work here is great, but as I said...I want more information before I file a report so as to maximise the chance of them fixing it without having to spend a ton of time investigating. Unfortunately, I actually have a day job so I can't sit noodling around in Elite until this evening, possibly tomorrow.

You really do seem to be twisting yourself in a knot to justify calling me a whiner here. It's really quite silly.

 

[Shear]

Has there been any recognition for this from frontier? Or are we all upset about something that just wont change?

 

[Josefius]

Nope, these were just pulse + beam lasers.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -


No "slight" about it - I used to be able to go from half a ring to nearly 3 rings using a single A4 cell. Now it barely manages one ring.

Same thing happened to me after the patch, I was flying a Federal Drop Ship verses a Viper.

 

[CMDR Harada]

I'll say much the same as others : This isn't fun any more.

Took out my A-spec Python ( 3 Lg Gimbl burst lasers, 2 Med Gmbld MCs, sincgle A6 SCB, Mil spec armor ). Against a Competent Anaconda, Dangerous Vulture, and Dangerous Eagle. Two nights ago, This would never have been an issue. After the patch ? WOW, got my backside handed to me. Popped the Eagle quick, The vulture took some tiem... popped an SCB... HEAT DAMAGE, but popped the Vulture. Now for the Anaconda. Started hammering each other. SCB.. Ooops... Heat damage again. Now both our shields are gone. Ended up having to run when I got to 15% hull. And my repair bill was STUPID crazy. Two nights ago, I would have LAUGHED at this wing. I wasn't laughing last night. And interdictions.. My gods... every freaking 5 minutes there's someone pulling me out if SC.

After a year, over 220+ million, and a bunch of trial and error.. I got NOTHING. A ship build that doesn't work unless I switch back to an ammo based model ( Heat sinks are ammo ). Techniques that are less than acceptable. If I have to worry about two Cobras and and an Eagle in my A-spec Python, WTH am I doing flying this expensive POS ? I have to re-learn the game that was enjoyable two nights ago. "Moving Goal Posts" pretty much sums it up. The game was a grind, but it was fun.

No rage quit... But I'm not having fun any more. I don't want to re-learn the game in the belief that they won't "re-balance it" again. I'm moving on for the next month or so. I'll check back and see what up.

I was planning on getting Horizons for Xmas, but now.... I'm glad I didn't pop for it.

 

[Kissinger]

If I have to worry about two Cobras and and an Eagle in my A-spec Python, WTH am I doing flying this expensive POS ?

I hear your pain, but it is not unrealistic militarily.

3 against one, with all things being equal gives a 9 to 1 disadvantage (according to Lanchester.)

So it's not unrealistic that a powerful ship will suffer against three, albeit weaker, vessels. In fact, they would each need to be 1/3 of your total capability to have an even chance, and the difference in weapon power isn't that great.

 

[Space Dandy]

I hear your pain, but it is not unrealistic militarily.

3 against one, with all things being equal gives a 9 to 1 disadvantage (according to Lanchester.)

So it's not unrealistic that a powerful ship will suffer against three, albeit weaker, vessels. In fact, they would each need to be 1/3 of your total capability to have an even chance, and the difference in weapon power isn't that great.

Except this is a game not fighter pilot training for real world applications. That said it needs to remain fun to the biggest percentage of players and I highly doubt that is the very vocal minority that want this to be Dark souls in space...

 

[digitalscream]

I hear your pain, but it is not unrealistic militarily.

3 against one, with all things being equal gives a 9 to 1 disadvantage (according to Lanchester.)

So it's not unrealistic that a powerful ship will suffer against three, albeit weaker, vessels. In fact, they would each need to be 1/3 of your total capability to have an even chance, and the difference in weapon power isn't that great.

As has been pointed out before...this is a game. When the game is at a point where situations you regularly find yourself in are a) unwinnable regardless of your skill level, and b) unsurvivable, so you can't really increase your skill level without losing so much money that you're effectively on a constant downward path, it's not really a game any more. It's just masochism.

Conversely, when the game suddenly changes to make (a) and (b) the case, it's sadism