Horizons What's The Incentive?

[Perfect_Hand]

Long story short, I traveled about 1500ly out to a neat star system I discovered (go me!) as I though it would be a cool place to begin my planetary exploration. I landed on and explored the small bodies there without any major issues. I discovered many minerals for synthesis, a bit of unimpressive cargo, and one data link thingy. On my way back I decided to land on a slightly larger world. Unfortunately, while admiring the scenery, I slammed into the surface and destroyed my ship, losing all my data.

My question then is this: if planetary landing is so dangerous and the rewards seem to be paltry, what is my in-game incentive for planetary exploration? As a simulator I love it, but when I can safely jump half way across galaxy, scan hundreds of systems, and then return home without issue while making millions of super-space-dollars, why would I want to risk landing on planets?

To be clear, I'm loving the planetary exploration, but I'm not seeing why it helps us explorers very much.

Please tell me why I'm ignorant!

-A Pioneer

P.S. Horizons is amazing and I'm loving the sheer scale of the worlds.

 

[MagicTofu]

In a recent dev update, Michael Brookes talked about the 'Missing', former explorers and pioneers who were never heard of again. If I understood correctly, there are things to discover about them on remote worlds, but I don't have any more concrete information about that.

After all, isn't exploration's incentive all about discovering new things you don't expect and have no clue about in the first place?

Also, sorry you lost data in a crash. It would seem checking at least the gravity of a planet before attempting to land on it may give an idea about how difficult it would be.

 

[babelfisch]

Long story short, I traveled about 1500ly out to a neat star system I discovered (go me!) as I though it would be a cool place to begin my planetary exploration. I landed on and explored the small bodies there without any major issues. I discovered many minerals for synthesis, a bit of unimpressive cargo, and one data link thingy. On my way back I decided to land on a slightly larger world. Unfortunately, while admiring the scenery, I slammed into the surface and destroyed my ship, losing all my data.

My question then is this: if planetary landing is so dangerous and the rewards seem to be paltry, what is my in-game incentive for planetary exploration? As a simulator I love it, but when I can safely jump half way across galaxy, scan hundreds of systems, and then return home without issue while making millions of super-space-dollars, why would I want to risk landing on planets?

To be clear, I'm loving the planetary exploration, but I'm not seeing why it helps us explorers very much.

Please tell me why I'm ignorant!

-A Pioneer

P.S. Horizons is amazing and I'm loving the sheer scale of the worlds.

If you are exploring to make credits there is no real incentive. If you are exploring to be a explorer... well landing on new, uncharted worlds, is the stuff explorers do.

 

[Frullo]

I agree wholeheartedly with OP. +Rep

Why not extend the "scan-gameplay"? Today we have "honk" and "detailscan" from space. Why not have similar options on a planet/moon Surface? A planetary "honk", which requires landing and a "detailscan" which requires driving srv's to POIs and scanning them? Accordingly, you would get paid for exploration data when you come back to the bubble.

 

[Red Fox Four]

So far all we have are settlements.

In the Settlements you drive your SRV up to a lightpole.
Shoot it with a Data Link "gun" which fires invisible laser beams.

That's pretty much all there is.

Oh, and shoot rocks with your SRV machinegun... which makes no sense whatsoever... why would someone use a machinegun for mining? Next we'll use missiles for repairing.

Anyways... more stuff needs to be added.

Exploring isn't about the act of exploring itself. It's about the result. About finding something. Something interesting. Something unique. Something which, maybe, noone else have found before.

Just flying from A to B to C to D, honking your scanner and watching Netflix while you wait for the detail scan of planets to finish is not exploring. It's a routine, mundane job. You might as well rename it to cartographer. Explorers are first in, cartographers come later.

When I drive my SRV around I want to find things. Not just a rock to machinegun.

What about old abandoned outposts where you can find mission starters, like reporting the status of the lost outposts or what happened there, or other things like;

Ship wrecks of former explorers like the OP, too busy watching the scenery and slamming into the planet, and you find valuable exploration data which you can bring back and sell?

Unique items such as a precious metal found only on that planet, which can be used instead of another regular item in synthesis, but providing you with 20 times more yield per unit than regular items... or being 20 times more valuable when sold on the market.

There's like a thousand things they could add to make exploration, both in space and on the surface, more interesting for explorers.

Instead all we have is a Sci-Fi Cartograph Simulator.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Hmm... you slammed your ship into the surface, you really wanna blame now the game for that? They made planetary landings already as safe as they possible could by spawning you back to your ship upon srv destruction and you don't lose data then, but making crashing your ship have no consequences would be way too much.

 

[Red Fox Four]

I agree wholeheartedly with OP. +Rep

Why not extend the "scan-gameplay"? Today we have "honk" and "detailscan" from space. Why not have similar options on a planet/moon Surface? A planetary "honk", which requires landing and a "detailscan" which requires driving srv's to POIs and scanning them? Accordingly, you would get paid for exploration data when you come back to the bubble.

Anomalies on the planet surface shouldn't be visible on the scanner unless you first did a Detail Scan of the planet... but that's just a thought...

 

[Frullo]

Anomalies on the planet surface shouldn't be visible on the scanner unless you first did a Detail Scan of the planet... but that's just a thought...

Good thinking! And to your previous post: It is more than cartography - I'd rather say it is prospection. Logically, the more accurate the prospection, the more money it shoud pay. That - to me - would be a financial incentive to land on planets (I would land anyway, but nonetheless, I'm never sad about more money in the pocket)

 

[Soliluna]

A detailed log where you could store your own screenshots and view them from within the game, so that you could record your journeys like an actual explorer. That would be good. They could be stored locally (and the user warned about them being stored locally) so as not to impact the server at all.

I think that would go a long way to making exploration feel more like exploration.

 

[Le-Betz]

Science is what makes the difference between explorers and tourists. It is not just sightseeing and taking pictures, but observation and investigation, therefore it needs sensors for precise measurements and tools to take samples. Have a look at what RL spacecraft and probes / rovers carry to do so and you get an idea what the SRV is missing, yet:



It's pretty obvious how much the design of the SRV is inspired by NASA's Curiosity rover and I find it amazing how much love the devs spent on the details of it. The more I wonder why it is missing a more complete sensor suite. But then again maybe it is called Surface Reconnaissance Vehicle for a reason, otherwise it would be a Surface Exploration Vehicle. Possibly that could be one of the future ground vehicles that Sir David mentioned.

EDIT:
More about Curiosity's instruments can be found here: http://mars.nasa.gov/msl/mission/instruments/

 

[Colonel Kenney]

I agree ..

They said they were upping the detailed scans but I didn't see that much of an increase at all last night. Maybe they haven't done it yet..

Exploration is the area of the game that has been totally ignored. I know they are building this and that Michael actually loves that aspect of the game. I'm hoping he learns during his trip to Sag A he'll see what needs to be improved.

Not all jobs should pay the exact same but there needs to be a feedback loop of risk vs reward.. the more risky it is the more reward.

Right now there is zero reward for going on the surface and it is very risky.

 

[EzeThieL]

So far all we have are settlements.

In the Settlements you drive your SRV up to a lightpole.
Shoot it with a Data Link "gun" which fires invisible laser beams.

That's pretty much all there is.

Oh, and shoot rocks with your SRV machinegun... which makes no sense whatsoever... why would someone use a machinegun for mining? Next we'll use missiles for repairing.

Anyways... more stuff needs to be added.

Exploring isn't about the act of exploring itself. It's about the result. About finding something. Something interesting. Something unique. Something which, maybe, noone else have found before.

Just flying from A to B to C to D, honking your scanner and watching Netflix while you wait for the detail scan of planets to finish is not exploring. It's a routine, mundane job. You might as well rename it to cartographer. Explorers are first in, cartographers come later.

When I drive my SRV around I want to find things. Not just a rock to machinegun.

What about old abandoned outposts where you can find mission starters, like reporting the status of the lost outposts or what happened there, or other things like;

Ship wrecks of former explorers like the OP, too busy watching the scenery and slamming into the planet, and you find valuable exploration data which you can bring back and sell?

Unique items such as a precious metal found only on that planet, which can be used instead of another regular item in synthesis, but providing you with 20 times more yield per unit than regular items... or being 20 times more valuable when sold on the market.

There's like a thousand things they could add to make exploration, both in space and on the surface, more interesting for explorers.

Instead all we have is a Sci-Fi Cartograph Simulator.

Or even better to find your crashed ship and get back the data you lost but I agree we surely need more stuff to do on planets, I guess we will see that in the future, maybe next year if we are lucky eh?

 

[Angus]

To be clear, I'm loving the planetary exploration, but I'm not seeing why it helps us explorers very much.

I think its a fair point, I'm definitely not all about the money but I'd like to see credit given by galactic cartography for surface data. I'm muchly enthused by Horizons, but it seems like they've missed a trick on the exploration aspect.

 

[floozie]

I think its a fair point, I'm definitely not all about the money but I'd like to see credit given by galactic cartography for surface data. I'm muchly enthused by Horizons, but it seems like they've missed a trick on the exploration aspect.

Its a great framework for exploring but ...

Lets say it this way, making things rewarding and well thought through gameplay is not their strongest part
Can be frustrating from time to time, though.
With every update it feels like they don't get better in it, either ... ;(

 

[Angus]

Instead all we have is a Sci-Fi Cartograph Simulator.

That's a bit harsh, isn't it?


It would be daft if every planet was stuffed full to the gills with entertainment for the impatient.


I want systems that are devoid of galactic secrets and quickfire entertainment. That way, when you do come across something, it means something.


I'd go further and say Frontier should put in some one-shot scripted stuff that a player very rarely comes across (in missions as well) because as necessary as the existing mission system is, (albeit with some current issues) it inevitably feels routine after a while, and coming across something unique is going to make the player think, "what the hell is this?!"


Its only what we had in the original game, but I wonder if Frontier are a bit shy of doing anything that compromises the procedural symmetry of their engine. "Hand code something??!!! Burn the unbeliever!!!!"

 

[CMDR Kantos Kan]

If you are exploring to make credits there is no real incentive. If you are exploring to be a explorer... well landing on new, uncharted worlds, is the stuff explorers do.

Hmmm... using this logic, you could apply it to any other "profession", and not make any credit. If you are trading to be a trader... you know, visiting many different stations, different systems, that's what traders do. If you are bounty hunting to be a bounty hunter... well, tracking criminals and killing them, that's what bounty hunters do. If you are smuggling to be a smuggler... sneaking in past security, visiting different systems, well, that's what smugglers do.

So, you see, you could apply the same logic to all other professions, you do them because you like them. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't expect some credits in return...

 

[[VR] Frank_G]

Hmm... you slammed your ship into the surface, you really wanna blame now the game for that? They made planetary landings already as safe as they possible could by spawning you back to your ship upon srv destruction and you don't lose data then, but making crashing your ship have no consequences would be way too much.

I found out the hard way, that my Asp Explorer wasnt able to counter a downward thruster impulse on a .5g world... I fitted 4D thrusters, as it was optimized for range and they are more than enough for pmaneuvering in space... The ship slammed backward into the ground while i was trying to boost out of the descent... The impact took out my shields and the hull down to 20%. Too good i wasnt far out, but man, i learned my lesson. The Asp is now fitted with appropriate thrusters and some other useful things to avoid rapid unplanned disassembly. The time of the light long range explorer is over, at least, when you plan to land on worlds around 1g. But as usual... The situation was immersive, felt pretty dangerous and offered a big relief and priceless experience as a reward.

 

[Tinman]

So far all we have are settlements.

In the Settlements you drive your SRV up to a lightpole.
Shoot it with a Data Link "gun" which fires invisible laser beams.

That's pretty much all there is.

These kind of reduction arguments are always fun...

-----
In Just Cause 3 there is basically settlements.

You blow them up.

That's pretty much all there is.
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In "racing game X" there are tracks.

You drive these tracks round and round.

That's pretty much all there is.
-----
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In Destiny there is a couple of levels.

You shoot enemies there and pick up loot.

That's pretty much all there is.
-----

I can do this all day!


Elite needs more in depth things too do, sure. That will also always be the case. As soon as they add the next thing we are going to ask for more.

Making these kind of "all you can do in the game is X" isn't really helpful nor an accurate representation of reality.

 

[babelfisch]

Hmmm... using this logic, you could apply it to any other "profession", and not make any credit. If you are trading to be a trader... you know, visiting many different stations, different systems, that's what traders do. If you are bounty hunting to be a bounty hunter... well, tracking criminals and killing them, that's what bounty hunters do. If you are smuggling to be a smuggler... sneaking in past security, visiting different systems, well, that's what smugglers do.

So, you see, you could apply the same logic to all other professions, you do them because you like them. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't expect some credits in return...

I never said he shouldn't be able to make credits. But he asked for the incentive and I think the incentive for exploring should be finding new, uncharterd worlds. I like bounty hunting and my incentive to kill pirates is that I like lasers and explosions. That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be higher payouts for your activities on planets, it's just an answer to his question.

 

[Muetdhiver]

I agree that while the invective is high for explorers to get down there for the vista and the fun driving arround,
the credit invective is a pitty.

Wrecks/Stashes/mini-Outposts have all been worthless so far, no one out there is going to collect 1t of consumer tech to carry for 1000's of lyrs.
I don't mind finding worthless crap all over, but in 10% of cases give me something interesting, as a stash of rare goods or slightly strange stuff.
Then in like 5% of cases put something really nice, like AI relics from an crashed illegal salvage team, UA's from crashed UA convoy, rare radioactive
materials from a science vessel, and so on.