UA Mystery thread 4 - The Canonn

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Jmanis - the secret station test was a great idea and well executed - o7

Your tetsts are why Ive been trying to look at other things sold at the infected Black Markets ... to little success :)


Few moments before reading Jmanis post, I was EXACTLY thinking about "false avenues" MB mentioned earlier...

.........


I KNOW he isn't talking about Space Whales ....

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Is there a list, or something, of Regions that were permit locked pre 1.5/horizons? I have a feeling that one of those might be the certain region of space mentioned.


You might try here https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=122593
 
So, about these station malfunctions... so far there's no irrefutable proof that UAs are causing them (correct me if I'm wrong), just a lot of correlation to strongly suggest that. Could it be that a well connected group (I'm looking at you, The Dark Wheel) is having their agents sabotage well-known UA-selling hotspots to make it seem that way? I have no evidence to support this (surprise!) or why they would want to deceive everyone like that, but if there's one group in the game that's likely one step ahead in regards to mysterious and unknown things, surely it's the Dark Wheel. I think there might be some surface bases in Shinrarta Dezhra that are controlled by the Dark Wheel (I seem to recall that from beta but could be talking complete barnacles), and if my temporary internet connection was powered by more than a tin can and some string, that's where I'd be poking around in a futile search for clues right now.
 
So, about these station malfunctions... so far there's no irrefutable proof that UAs are causing them (correct me if I'm wrong)

Every single infected station has a black market.
Systems of infected stations sometimes contain another station with out a black market. The non-black-market stations are not infected.
The first infected station was the closest station with a black market to the UA harvesting grounds.
There has never been an infected station without a black market. Not even 1.

The UA can only be sold at black markets. Find an infected station without a black market first, and then your theory holds water.
 
I can't fault your logic JManis - as always.

And Derthek's also.

But, I'm of the opinion that there's some kind of immunity effect being hidden here, if so, we need to find it; or rule it out.

We have a plan (not sure if it's cunning or not) that might help us do this - it will be coming up on here soon, so keep your eyes peeled :)
 
I think selling UAs is a false avenue. A catalyst perhaps, but not the cause. There's something else missing. Nothing else fits observations.
The other simple explanation that fits the observations is that FD saw you selling all the UAs to that system via server activity, but decided not to flip the switch to "infected" because it doesn't fit their story. It doesn't mean UAs aren't the cause. It just means selling UAs is the probable cause and FD deciding to flip the switch is the mechanic. Another possible explanation is that they didn't want a single commander to be able to infect a station, so the criteria monitored involves multiple UAs and multiple commanders.

They won't ever explain why they selected the stations they did, just so they don't have to justify every scenario for the stations they don't pick. It's their MO. Keep the information to themselves to minimize the scrutiny. If they told us their selection criteria, we'd pick it to death and show multiple examples of stations they "should have" shut down. They don't want to waste time dealing with that. They do it with the BGS, they do it with Power Play, they do it with CGs, and they're doing it here. From a rational point of view, I understand why they do it. From an emotional point of view, it frustrates the hell out of me in multiple aspects of the game (and it's why I quit power play). They're the wizard behind the curtain, and it can't be pulled back.

Kudos on an excellent test, and your attempt to advance the story line. I think you did an excellent thing here. Just don't be surprised if we never find out why it didn't work. :(
 
Every single infected station has a black market.
Systems of infected stations sometimes contain another station with out a black market. The non-black-market stations are not infected.
The first infected station was the closest station with a black market to the UA harvesting grounds.
There has never been an infected station without a black market. Not even 1.

The UA can only be sold at black markets. Find an infected station without a black market first, and then your theory holds water.

I realise it's a very flimsy theory, and I see what you're saying but I would contend that it doesn't amount to absolute proof that UAs are the cause of malfunctions. Please apply additional tinfoil before reading on... The main thing that prompted this theory was too much Leestian Evil Juice the very points you raise - only black market stations are affected, but not ALL black market stations where UAs are known to be sold (at least not yet). Think about it from an in-universe perspective - if there's no black market at a station then that would suggest that in-station security is high, or at least high enough for any hypothetical saboteurs to deem it not worth the risk tampering with. If the UAs are the sole cause of malfunctions I would expect much more of an epidemic by now (UAs have been sold all over the place for quite some time with only a relatively small amount of stations affected), whereas a group such as the Dark Wheel would surely be limited in how many stations they would be able to successfully sabotage in the same time period.

Having said all that, I personally think it's far more likely other theories here are closer to the money, and I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it's mostly black market UA sales + RNG that ultimately decides which stations are affected. If I do uncover anything in the way of actual evidence to support my ramblings then I'll post again, but until such time I shall shut up about it and you can file this under "alright, who let that guy near the onionhead supplies?".
 
I've been flying/driving around moons in Merope for a few days, trying to get the hang of how landings, POIs, etc work. The first place I found anything other than crafting mats was Merope 5C, where I came down near a plateau with a couple data points that I scanned (after a bit of figuring out how...), and a crashed ship whose cargo rack I accidentally blew up instead of scooping. I haven't caught up with this thread, so do we know whether any of that might be meaningful?

One data point was marked Public, and showed up as an Empire data scan in my transactions, and the second was Private and showed up as Alliance, with a much larger reward (~18000). Um, I am speaking about them in past tense because I then proceeded to boost my Clipper straight into the dirt, so..... Yeah....


@the question of UA-malfunctions connection, my 2 cents say FD are looking for stations with UA sales and picking ones that fit the story they want to tell. Seems like there's a clear connection between the two plot lines, but not something they want to leave open to much emergent player manipulation.
 
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Having said all that, I personally think it's far more likely other theories here are closer to the money, and I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it's mostly black market UA sales + RNG that ultimately decides which stations are affected. If I do uncover anything in the way of actual evidence to support my ramblings then I'll post again, but until such time I shall shut up about it and you can file this under "alright, who let that guy near the onionhead supplies?".

Normally, co-relation is not causation, however...

Gabriel Station in Harma went down in less than 24 hrs after we White Templars started flooding the market with UA.

That implies a very very strong correlation indeed.

The other activities, namely jousting with the few pirates that showed up, we have done before with no ill effect.

I cannot prove there is no other way to shut a station down, but proving negatives is impossible.
 
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Dam'it I have found myself wearing a tin foil hat...

"Ishmael Palin" is an anagram for "Liminal phase"... = Liminal is an English adjective, "on the threshold," from Latin limen, plural limina, "threshold."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liminal

07

PS: Please dont throw anything or put rotten fish in my ships air scrubber if this is a dead flat nothin.

My contribution to the foil hats:

Ishmael was the name of Abraham's first child, as depicted in chapter 16 of Genisis. He was the start of god's fulfillment of his covenant with Abraham.

Maybe this Ish will fufill our questions about the UAs.
 
Jmanis has proved scientifically that the number of ua sold is not the cause of malfunction.

Others have given strong circumstantial evidence to the contrary.

For selling to be the trigger, it would seem that it is possibly the number of Cmdrs selling a ua is what triggers MBs report rather than the total number of UAs. This relies on a little handwavium, but it would ensure that UA could only be wraponsised by a group rather than am individual trouble maker.

I still don't believe a word of it, as I have said repeatedly
 
I have a theory that the UA is both the 'barnacle' and the 'meta-alloys'
The round bit is the barnacle and it's producing the tubes that are meta-alloys.

The barnacle requires 'stuff' in order to make the meta-alloy which is why is damages ships. It's harvesting.

If it harvests enough of the right things, then it will drop the meta-alloys for collection.
Is anyone up for some science?

As many people as possible fill up on surface materials.
Someone collects a UA.
All gather nearish to a station that has repairs.

Allow the UA to do as much damage as you can bear until it drops out by itself or you jettison it.
Next person picks it up and does the same.
And so on.

If we've all got a selection of random materials, maybe we'll hit on the right combo that triggers 'meta-alloy' production mode.
 
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Jmanis has proved scientifically that the number of ua sold is not the cause of malfunction.

Others have given strong circumstantial evidence to the contrary.

For selling to be the trigger, it would seem that it is possibly the number of Cmdrs selling a ua is what triggers MBs report rather than the total number of UAs. This relies on a little handwavium, but it would ensure that UA could only be wraponsised by a group rather than am individual trouble maker.

I still don't believe a word of it, as I have said repeatedly

I would say that UA sales + RNG tops my list.
A link to number of commanders selling is really good thinking.
I would also point out that the Imps sold 500 + units to a station without causing malfunction. The only got the GalNet report.
There could be a time component as well.
 
Love the secret station test Jmanis. Rep given. You already mentioned that if the UA trigger malfunctions then they aren't the sole cause. I had some ideas around other factors.
-Do the affected stations share a type? I.e. Occellus class or industry type or trading in a specific commodity
-Do the stations orbit a planet/moon sharing a common factor?
-Does the system star(s) share a common factor?
 
Possibility on Jmanis' station is still functional: selling X # of UA's simply triggers a CHANCE of failure. Think saving throws in RPG's. Variant: Triggers being added to a list of candidates to fail, and his simply wasn't selected, whether by RNG and/or devious developer and/or intern's pointing finger.
 
Remembering that Warkushanui was the first infected system, I went there to inspect some of the planets. We still don't know the reason why, so everything could be possible.
Two infected stations: one shut down. Nothing relevant found so far.

And

I've been in Maia B1 BA all yesterday. I suggest again to pay a visit to Maia B1 AA, AKA the Potato Moon. Worth it.

If you are still in Warky, would you mind cargo scanning a few NPCs outside the station that is affected but not closed?
 
I'm curious if people without horizons can still participate in the CG, are the evacuation shelters an available commodity without horizons?
 
I understand the disillusion Clavian and Silent Pact are feeling at the UA, Elite, and FDev in general. I've been feeling some of that myself, I think we all have been somewhat disappointed with Horizons(the scope and depth of it is amazing, but I find it lacking in substance), even if some of us won't admit to it.

But I agree with you here, mostly. I'm sticking with FD. I'm not giving up on Elite, not any time soon.

That being said, the :):):):) slinging that's being going on is a symptom of poor communication as a result of trying to be vague and esoteric. Frontier might not have slung any :):):):), but the slinging that happened was their fault. Micheal pretty much admitted to this in his apology.

I wasn't there for the T-series bug, but I still feel that I had wasted some of time at other things in the UA mystery.
But, I'm not giving up though, and I feel that thoughts like Clavians and Silent Pacts need to be expressed, only in less aggressive ways.
FDev need to take in account the feedback on the story elements, like the UA, to better improve them.

On topic, all I will say is: Common in certain areas of space, eh?

I am giving up too.

"They are easily machined, but as yet cannot be manufactured, only found in space."

After the UA T-series debacle, this is yet another little issue due to poor communication, or lack thereof :(

After wasting a countless amount of time and almost dying, looking in SSS, USS and WSS (for barnacles), as well as on planets (for unknown bases and barnacles), I have discovered, the barnacles (which definately exist) are only found on planets, as points of interest (POI).

ONLY found on planets, not "ONLY found in space". :rolleyes:

The in-game description is very clear. Space only. Not planets.
The surface of a planet is not generally regarded as space. WSS, USS etc and asteroid fields/belts are space, but that is not where you will find them. The description should have read "only found on planets" or even "airless planets".
The fact that we weren't told what the green structures in the video were, added to this confusion. Like xdeath said "symptom of poor communication as a result of trying to be vague and esoteric".

Initially, I had found out about the barnacles existence, entirely accidentally, whilst looking for something totally unrelated (bobbleheads!). It is such a time sink searching a system, then even a small part of just one planet, nevermind signal sources, in frustration, I went back to my original source and found out what I now know. I had wasted my time for nothing.
I have since stopped looking in all senses, and to be honest I no longer care. For both the reason above and reasons below. If you can't be bothered reading, just go straight to the bit at the bottom. I really won't mind.

A while back I made an overly sarcastic post (sorry :p) asking why, in all seriousness, would FD pull an all nighter finishing the trailer to Horizons and include a creepy teaser of space barnacles, when a huge number of people, including myself, are wishing for Thargoids, as evidenced by the number of people texting during the live stream. It now looks like that's exactly what they did. Space barnacles! :eek:
Thargoids? Terrifying and intrinsically linked with Elite...not one sign of them.

My only reason for searching for the barnacles was to glean more info with relation to the Thargoids. For me that is now a dead end. I still stand by my theory that the barnacles are brought in, originally, on the hulls of Thargoid ships, not that it matters anymore. There are other things for you to discover, when you discover them, but I'm not going to spoil that for you. You can see when you find them yourself.

Grinding story, is as un-fun and frustrating as grinding the Imperial rank was for me. By the time actual Thargoids, or even more concrete information on them, do make an appearance, I will either have moved onto something else, (World of Barbie anybody?), or died of natural causes. Which ever comes first. I doubt it will even be in 2016. There are way too many time sinks in Elite and this is just another, more so due to the info being wrong (twice).

I'm now going to turn my ship around and head back to the bubble to finish off my combat elite status and enjoy the rest of what is a great game. I'm so very done with the Thargoid story grind. I will probably not even notice when they do arrive, as there is a good chance I will have gone on to something else.

This is a mellowed out, slightly indifferent rant. Not an angry rant. I have just plain lost interest :(

For those that are still interested...

You are looking for POI on planets. they are NOT at signal sources, or asteroid fields.

They will look like what you saw in the video. There is also more to the barnacle than just the barnacle! ;)

I was searching high metal planetary bodies, as barnacles are all about the metal! I even found a 100% metal planet. Nothing as yet on it, but I stopped searching, once I found out, what I found out. It may be yet another dead end. But here's the name.

HIP 19382 (Planet B1)

I can breathe a sigh of relief now that I am out of this particular grind, more so because I will no longer be wasting time based on wrong information, or false hopes, based on something that may not arrive for a ridiculously long time.
Hopefully this will stop you guys wasting your time and you can now look in more fruitful places for the barnacles. I have nothing more I can give you.

That's me out and also logging out. I'll find myself here when Google brings me here by accident.
Good luck with your searching and investigations. Long may your seeds of knowledge grow :)

Meh.

space barnacle.jpg
 
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