FAS vs FDL turn rates and ramming tested

My FdL: Coriolis
My FAS: Coriolis

I love both - they're very different ships. The FdL seems better for 1v1, but it's close. You just have to use those lateral thrusters and FA off really well. My FAS is a tank. Everything pings off its hull, even class 2 rails only do 1% hull damage.

I have noticed that the distributor gets hit a lot from random shots on the FAS though - I was running the A grade, and it kept getting shot out, so I switched to B and have had far fewer problems.
 
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My FdL: Coriolis
My FAS: Coriolis

I love both - they're very different ships. The FdL seems better for 1v1, but it's close. You just have to use those lateral thrusters and FA off really well. My FAS is a tank. Everything pings off its hull, even class 2 rails only do 1% hull damage.

I have noticed that the distributor gets hit a lot from random shots on the FAS though - I was running the A grade, and it kept getting shot out, so I switched to B and have had far fewer problems.

No shields at all? Interesting. Makes me think that one of the federation factions should offer an armour module to go with their ships instead of a fairly useless gun.
 
A little entertainment from Morbad, got it off his channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THjNaZm3DPI

My FAS is a tank. Everything pings off its hull, even class 2 rails only do 1% hull damage.

With introduction of 1.4 subsystem damage FAS "could" be a game changer in more than one way.
Lets explore this new idea now :

"HULL TANKING"

AS we can see in the video FAS lasted a long time without shields. If the FAS pilot used silent running hitting it with gimball cannons would be nigh on impossible. So FDL Cmdr in the video would have had only the fixed burst laser to hit him with... Has anyone tried to hit FAS hull with pulse laser?
Its useless. With burst lasers it is even more useless. FDL can realistically have a max of 2 scb. (If one wants fuel scoop and interdictor). Those 10 charges have to run out sooner or later. At the same time FAS can move 4 pips to wpn 2 eng while awaiting for shields to recharge. (switch off boosters for quicker recharge too)
Can you see where I am heading ?

With good piloting skills FAS can survive long enough and deal some serious DPS while defending. Shields will reharge a lot quicker than FDL.
FAS can therefore turn defence into offence (in the hands of a competnent pvp pilot)

Once FDL's shields are down it will be mass locked and likely rammed to death unless it high wakes.

I am really pleased that we can look into the concept of "hull tanking" seriously.
I used to hull tank in my old railgun cobra in the past and you would be surprised how many pilots with shields I managed to take down (even Pythons, 1 v 2 couriers, Vultures...) People tend to let their guard down a bit when opponents shields are down - they think its all over... Well, is it ? ;)
 
My FdL: Coriolis
My FAS: Coriolis

I love both - they're very different ships. The FdL seems better for 1v1, but it's close. You just have to use those lateral thrusters and FA off really well. My FAS is a tank. Everything pings off its hull, even class 2 rails only do 1% hull damage.

I have noticed that the distributor gets hit a lot from random shots on the FAS though - I was running the A grade, and it kept getting shot out, so I switched to B and have had far fewer problems.

Nice
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I have the same loadout on my FAS except I have an advanced PA and heat sinks, I find that if your using silent running instead I took mirrored instead of military armour as your unlikely to be hit by kinetics when they can't target you
 
I certainly don't want to see any ship nerfed (FAS) but would like to see the FdL given a more specific roll that gives it real worth. Something like fixing it's dreadful heat tolerance, increasing it's fuel tank size and FSD drive slot so that it becomes a long range interceptor. Then it might justify the cost.
 
No shields at all? Interesting. Makes me think that one of the federation factions should offer an armour module to go with their ships instead of a fairly useless gun.
You either go all SCB or all armour with this one I think...I'm a slave to the meta a bit (see my FdL), but I prefer not to, so armour seemed the way to go. I was guarding a mining annie last night, took on 4-5 annies, couple of clippers and a wing of 4 dropships and still came out with 50% hull (those point defence turrets REALLY paid for themselves).
Nice
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I have the same loadout on my FAS except I have an advanced PA and heat sinks, I find that if your using silent running instead I took mirrored instead of military armour as your unlikely to be hit by kinetics when they can't target you
I suck at stealth flying, but yeah, that seems a great loadout :)
 
Even clipper have better shields than FDL if pilot know how manage it..

Hey man , could you please just explain me that ? i am perhaps a newbie but given the maths , as it seems that even my courrier with 2A shield boosters has more shield than a clipper , how can a FDL with stronger base shield and 6 utilities be weaker than the clipper? Perhaps you take scb into account , but i won't cause you can't rely on scb once the fight is not well engaged ( it will just delay the inevitable , if you got shields too weak vs eni weaponery , you're doomed anyway !). What do i not understand the right way there ?

Thanks

( ps: i am curious cause working to buy a shiny clipper ;) )
 
Hey man , could you please just explain me that ? i am perhaps a newbie but given the maths , as it seems that even my courrier with 2A shield boosters has more shield than a clipper , how can a FDL with stronger base shield and 6 utilities be weaker than the clipper? Perhaps you take scb into account , but i won't cause you can't rely on scb once the fight is not well engaged ( it will just delay the inevitable , if you got shields too weak vs eni weaponery , you're doomed anyway !). What do i not understand the right way there ?

Thanks

( ps: i am curious cause working to buy a shiny clipper ;) )

he means when you have shield cell banks which recharge your shield, some ships that are not supposed to be good fighter are, because fighters usually have low power available and low cargo space so they can't use effectively shield cells
 
800 MJ and 2x4A linked or you need toggling in the middle of fight?
And 5A + 2A boosters will give you 650 MJ, not 800 - you have also 3 chaffs and 1 heatsink. Unless you got 5A prismatic, it will give 780, but in that case cellbank will not be powered up.
Toggling a SCB for get 160 MJ boost is a nonse, because in meantime of switching enemy will drop your shields at all.

Alright you skillful FDL pilot... let me give you 3 hints that you've seemingly never heard of:
1.) FDL with 785MJ, 1 active 4A SCB and 5 active fixed Pulses: http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=70O,5TE5Rg5Rg5Rg5Rg0_g0_g0_g0-801Q01Q,317_7_6Q6Q9Y725A,7Sk7go7go7dg9pC
2.) You schould activate your shieldcell not just before you lose your shield... thats why you will not suddenly lose your shield even when you need to switch off a module before
3.) bind the submodule menu switch to your joystick and you'll need not even one second to switch on/off certain modules... if you need longer, you need to practice more
 
For PvE, the FAS is essentially a better vulture - good maneuverability, faster, more weapons. In this regard it is excellent.

For PvP the FAS maneverabillity means nothing. You try anything against a good FdL pilot, they simply reverse maneuver and keep you in their sights 100% of the time. And then it's game over because your shields are paper thin (even when compared to a notoriously poorly shielded ship like the clipper).

As someone that flies the clipper in pvp regularly and used to fly the FdL quite a bit, one thing I saw over and over with vultures was them trying to get up close maneuver into my 'blind spot' like they would with an NPC. The moment I saw those shenanigans, I just hit reverse and try as they might, no matter how hard they boosted, they couldn't get out of my gun sights. The FAS is in the same boat in this regard, except it has something like 150 MJ less shielding than the vulture.
 
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For PvE, the FAS is essentially a better vulture - good maneuverability, faster, more weapons. In this regard it is excellent.

For PvP the FAS maneverabillity means nothing. You try anything against a good FdL pilot, they simply reverse maneuver and keep you in their sights 100% of the time. And then it's game over because your shields are paper thin (even when compared to a notoriously poor shielded ship like the clipper).

As someone that flies the clipper in pvp regularly and used to fly the FdL quite a bit, one thing I saw over and over with vultures was them trying to get up close maneuver into my 'blind spot' like they would with an NPC. The moment I saw those shenanigans, I just hit reverse and try as they might, not matter how hard they boosted, they couldn't get out of my gun sights. The FAS is in the same boat in this regard, except it has something like 150 MJ less shielding.

And the complete lack of any sort of decent vertical/lateral thrust means you are a sitting duck for plasma.

As much as i love the FAS it does have some serious flaws - which i believe are a good thing in terms of game balance.
 
For PvP the FAS maneverabillity means nothing. You try anything against a good FdL pilot, they simply reverse maneuver and keep you in their sights 100% of the time. And then it's game over because your shields are paper thin (even when compared to a notoriously poorly shielded ship like the clipper).

2 things here:

1. You are talking about 1:1 pvp. When there is a 3v3 or 4v4 fight you can reverse all you want if 2 or 3 Cmdrs are on you.
2. If you are reversing you will not kill many Cmdr's unless they are kamikaze. And to me the point of pvp is to score a kill and maybe have fun doing it - reversing is no fun ;)

and to say "For PvP the FAS maneverabillity means nothing" I am not even going to comment on that...
 
I love kind of players who you fight on this video. Elite rank grinded on NPC and gimballs :D He just let you to drop his shields, a good PvPer will dont. Or he just have a poor or test build with a weak shields.

What makes you think that was me, fighting in this video?

Cannons are not efficient for shields. I am not a follower of gimballs because they can be easily evaded by double chaff.

Have you tried a set with 1 c4 cannon, 2 c2 cannon and 2x beam fixed? A firepower against hull will be similar, but better for shields.

Cannons are good enough. Four of them decimate pretty rapidly when shields are down, plus some minor splash damage on shields at negligible cost to the capacitor. Allows to keep the pressure up. I like pressure. Constant pressure and they start fearing you. Fear leads to hate, hate to suffering.. you know the story ;). Additionally, at close range they are not affected by chaff that much. FDL is good at maintaining close range with almost any other ship. I use C3 beam, btw. More than enough laser power for me. And cannons/multi-cannons is a natural continuation of that strategy.

Yes, I tried everything there is to try. Two load outs for my FDL. C3 beam/cannons; C3 beam/multi-cannons.

As for your proposed load out, it isn't bad I guess. But when choosing between two C2 beams and one C3 beam I go for the latter - ease of aiming, bonus versus big ships, less energy strain on the capacitor. Besides, two medium cannons and one huge is the same amount of damage as four medium cannons. Plus, huge cannon has slow velocity.

800 MJ and 2x4A linked or you need toggling in the middle of fight?
And 5A + 2A boosters will give you 650 MJ, not 800 - you have also 3 chaffs and 1 heatsink. Unless you got 5A prismatic, it will give 780, but in that case cellbank will not be powered up.
Toggling a SCB for get 160 MJ boost is a nonse, because in meantime of switching enemy will drop your shields at all.

Again, you are confusing me with Morbad. I specifically said it was Morbad's video... didn't I? I understand that Morbad and Moriarte "sound" alike, so I forgive you. Anyway, last I heard, he used light shields (D class) on his FDL and double 4B cells, which are always connected.

As for myself, I prefer 800 MJ and double 4A cells are ON within one second, when needed. I can see the merit of lower base shield with two cell banks always connected, as there are weight considerations there too. No big deal to me, a matter of preference.
 
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It is exactly as mature as you make it. There is nothing inherently immature about a video game, only a player.

And there is nothing excessively antagonistic about this thread. Just a bunch of people arguing their points, politely. It is what mature people tend to do - they compare positives to negatives and if the latter outweigh the former, something better be done about it. Or not.
 
Alright you skillful FDL pilot... let me give you 3 hints that you've seemingly never heard of:
1.) FDL with 785MJ, 1 active 4A SCB and 5 active fixed Pulses: http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=70O,5TE5Rg5Rg5Rg5Rg0_g0_g0_g0-801Q01Q,317_7_6Q6Q9Y725A,7Sk7go7go7dg9pC
2.) You schould activate your shieldcell not just before you lose your shield... thats why you will not suddenly lose your shield even when you need to switch off a module before
3.) bind the submodule menu switch to your joystick and you'll need not even one second to switch on/off certain modules... if you need longer, you need to practice more

An irony is not neccesary here mate, because: ;)
1. i flew with similar build at february, howerer better is with a 4B/2B cellbanks, they will get a more MJ than 4A and allow to put 4D sensors. 4A life support is useless, switch to 4d will give some power for stronger shields, the same as armour. Your build is a slow and agile like a turtle in a mud, and 5 pulses, are nice for shiedls, but weak for hull. There are much better builds than you propose.
2. Everybody know this.
You can turn off scb/switch next by power management, but not switching different sets of weapons in meantime, and turn main weapons offline for a few seconds, because enemy will eat you. Switching scb/weapons during the battle should just be balanced by a player in a some reasonable way.
3. Everybody have this.

Hey man , could you please just explain me that ? i am perhaps a newbie but given the maths , as it seems that even my courrier with 2A shield boosters has more shield than a clipper , how can a FDL with stronger base shield and 6 utilities be weaker than the clipper? Perhaps you take scb into account , but i won't cause you can't rely on scb once the fight is not well engaged ( it will just delay the inevitable , if you got shields too weak vs eni weaponery , you're doomed anyway !). What do i not understand the right way there ?

Thanks

( ps: i am curious cause working to buy a shiny clipper ;) )

Yes mate, of course i take a SCB into a count, they are the key. 400-500 shields with 4 pips is pretty much. At first of my playing i though the same about base shields as these guys, but last half of the year verified that, and now i think the base strength is not much important as i though. Of course it cannot be ridiculuos low, however more important is overall MJ capacity in base+SCB's.

What makes you think that was me, fighting in this video?

Hmm... yep, my fault, your nicks 'sounds' similar for me ;)

Allows to keep the pressure up. I like pressure. Constant pressure and they start fearing you. Fear leads to hate, hate to suffering.. you know the story

Mate, i got buit what i proposed - 3 canonns and 2 beams - i need to admit - works pretty good. The advantages of huge slot are fully used (you just need to keep enemy in line or below of your ship). And you have right, cannons are not affected by a chaff at close range, and basically they are for close range, so it works perfectly. They are good solution for ships wit a power problem, such as FDL. Capacitor of FDL can handle it.

MJC said:
"HULL TANKING"

True. Maybe a good build will be a 435 MJ 5a prismatic shields, but without cellbanks, instead of them - an armour and hull boosters. Or maybe lower class shields to get stronger hull booster.
Hull tanking was made in Elite: Legacy, one of the book. One of main charakters used an Anaconda with a lot of hull boosters (and poor shields for baiting).

Good armour is a cost of ship or two ships, so rebuy cost could be doubled, and ship will be noticable slower, i think thats why this way of play is not popular. And that creepy sound of damaging hull.
Hull tanking just need a balls ;)

And hull tanking have one more advantage, as you wrote - you dont care about shields and you can get 4 pips to weapons and 2 to engines, to keep agility.
FDL vs FAS - i think in most cases FAS win. Mass locked FDL with lowered shields will not be able to flee.
 
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My FdL: Coriolis
My FAS: Coriolis

I love both - they're very different ships. The FdL seems better for 1v1, but it's close. You just have to use those lateral thrusters and FA off really well. My FAS is a tank. Everything pings off its hull, even class 2 rails only do 1% hull damage.

I have noticed that the distributor gets hit a lot from random shots on the FAS though - I was running the A grade, and it kept getting shot out, so I switched to B and have had far fewer problems.

Dear honored Registered User: EddiesMinion

Thank you for sharing our technical schematics with these lovely Unregistered Users. Let us hope that such actions serve to carry our message of synergy through cooperation, for all Registered Users.

Further to your point, my records indicate that some of our pilots are running full B Module setups with the exception of A type Thrusters. It should also be noted that such setups enjoy low maintenance costs and benefit from a much reduced energy requirement compared to that of their A counterparts. As a veteran Registered User such as yourself knows full well, this is especially useful for those running Beam Laser configuration.

My records also indicate that one of our pilots is running twin medium lasers, complimented bu two large fragmentation cannons. The reduced power costs allow for extending beam use while the Full-Metal FAS setup supports close-quarter brawler tactics. According to their reports, closing with beams before executing a ram and double large fragmentation cannon maneuver has proven to be devastating, if not pretty.

This concludes our session. Fly on excellent Registered User: Eddiesminion. Thome thanks you for your efforts.

A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.
The Expert System

 
thx FD for making the twice as expensive ship twice as inferior

FAS:
better turn rates, better speed, better jump range, comperable firepower, more SCBs possible

british logic
 
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