Fighter Bay Ideas.

[Reverant_Spark]

Soooo.... Ever since buying a 'conda aaages ago, Ive been eagerly looking forward to being able to carry fighters. And now that I have a 'vette which can carry two... The wait is becoming unbearable lol
Im assuming its gonna be part of the multicrew update, which I would hazard a guess at being the next update we get (I hope so on both counts). I mean, having multiple crew members goes hand in hand with multiple ships docked in yours.

Ive been giving it some thought, and here are a few features that Im hoping to god that are part of the fighter bay addition...

1) Fighters can be launched as unmanned automated fighters that have their own AI, or are controled by the motherships AI.

2) Fighters can be boarded and lauched by crewmates.

3) When utilized as unmanned drones, we can set their behaviour. The behaviour modifications as follows...

a) Rules of engagement tab, ie:
Fire at will : no
Fire at will on wanted targets : no
Fire at will on hostile targets : yes
Return fire : yes
Hold fire : no

b) The ability to set a target priority list in the same way we do modules. Listing all the options in a tab and scrolling a number next to them, for example...
Other deployed fighters : 1
Small ships : 2
Medium ships : 3
Large ships : 4
Highest agility : 1
Lowest agility : 4
Fastest : 1
Slowest : 4

c) The ability to customize said docked fighters loadouts when at stations, to tool them up for specific jobs. Shield strippers, hull smashers, fly swatters...

d) The addition of a new fighter specific module, a "Fighter AI Module" of different ratings. A basic one which allows the deployment of autonamous fighters. A standard one which adds automatic pip management, and an advanced one which adds another behaviour option to the list mentioned in "a", the option to set fighters to recall when their shields are at a certain %, then automatically relaunch when their shields are back at full capacity, and also makes fighters automatically recall when you charge your FSD. For example... Your hull is getting hammerred... You boost away letting the fighters draw the aggro while you make good your escape, then as soon as your FSD finishes charging, the fighters immediately recall, going full pips to engines, boosting back to you and docking, your FSD not jumping til they are stowed. You could achieve this by having different rating hangars that have the same features, each with power/weight drawbacks, but I'd much rather have different hangar ratings effect the size of the ship it can store if possible. Like an A grade hangar could store a viper, a B grade an eagle, and a C grade a Condor or Imperial Fighter. This is why I suggest a module fitted onto the fighter itself. And if we could dock Vipers and Eagles, it'd be great if you could FFSD out and they would jump after you and follow you through supercruise. (but would have to be recalled before jumping between systems.)

Thats all the ideas I have for now. May add more if I come up with any. But at the very least, what I'd want to see incorporated with fighter bays are autonamous fighters, fighter outfitting, target priority, and rules of engagement.

 

[KayAitch]

As it currently stands fighters won't be much use - in CZ you regularly come across Condor and Imperial Fighters (the only ships you can carry) and they die incredibly fast - in the order of a couple of seconds. If you have turrets set to fire at will you will typically kill them without even realising it until the bond pops up.

Making these ships tougher doesn't really help unless they're stupidly tough for their size.

One suggestion I think might work is making it so that turrets and gimbals just can't lock on these small targets, meaning you need fighters to fight fighters (or maybe point defence could do that?) That does risk making fighters too powerful though, as one could kill an Anaconda by sitting behind its engine and chipping away for 20 minutes.

 

[aspiringexpatriate]

As it currently stands fighters won't be much use - in CZ you regularly come across Condor and Imperial Fighters (the only ships you can carry) and they die incredibly fast - in the order of a couple of seconds. If you have turrets set to fire at will you will typically kill them without even realising it until the bond pops up.

Making these ships tougher doesn't really help unless they're stupidly tough for their size.

One suggestion I think might work is making it so that turrets and gimbals just can't lock on these small targets, meaning you need fighters to fight fighters (or maybe point defence could do that?) That does risk making fighters too powerful though, as one could kill an Anaconda by sitting behind its engine and chipping away for 20 minutes.

In my experience the NPC fighters in CZs die quickly because they do not have wingman support. A fighter on its own taking on a target will die quickly. A fighter focus firing and evading on the same target an Annie, Cutter, or Corvette is will be able to inflict much more damage, or at least allow the mothership to inflict damage while the target disposes of it.

Hell, recently, I tried taking an Imperial Eagle into a CZ. A tiny fighter targeted me. I was there for about 10 minutes and still never too that speedy dart out. Silly fixed weapons and poor rotational speed.

Also, I was under the impression that turrets did have trouble locking onto fighters or other fast ships. Gimbals are better as you can manoeuvre the ship to help them track the target.

I don't think we need to make them impossible to target, like SRVs.

As for point defence? That sounds nice.

As for the OP post, with AI Modules, I'm pretty sure FDev has said it wouldn't be AI. You won't hire NPC crew, but I think the deployable fighters will operate much like NPC fighters do now, though they will be in your wing, so that should make it easier to focus fire on the same target and assist them when they're in danger.

I don't see us getting direct fighter control like you're mentioning, but it's possible that we will get a function for their targeting systems, like our turrets:

• Fire at Will
• Forward Fire
• Target Only

Fire at Will is 'target any hostile and engage', and 'target only' is 'focus fire on my target'. Those two make perfect sense as NPC Fighter commands. I'm not sure what they could use in lieu of 'forward fire', but I don't think it'll be as specific as 'wanted only', and likely, their firing on targets will require you to scan the targets before you fire on them, just like turrets.

 

[KayAitch]

Turrets have no problems locking on to either fighters or missiles. If all you have is fixed weapons they can be bothersome, but turrets kill them in about 5s.

Turrets do struggle with fast ships at their top speed, travelling perpendicular to you, so boosting Cobra and Vipers (both mk 3, the 4 variants are no problem).

 

[Zephyriel]

I doubt they will but I hope the fighters can have a limited FSD allowing them to supercruise within the local system. This would let us land on planets without risking to damage our big ship.

I fairly certain that the next update will be loot and crafting, fighter bays will probably be the one after that, or maybe the third update.

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

As it currently stands fighters won't be much use - in CZ you regularly come across Condor and Imperial Fighters (the only ships you can carry) and they die incredibly fast - in the order of a couple of seconds. If you have turrets set to fire at will you will typically kill them without even realising it until the bond pops up.

Making these ships tougher doesn't really help unless they're stupidly tough for their size.

One suggestion I think might work is making it so that turrets and gimbals just can't lock on these small targets, meaning you need fighters to fight fighters (or maybe point defence could do that?) That does risk making fighters too powerful though, as one could kill an Anaconda by sitting behind its engine and chipping away for 20 minutes.

The fighters will be balanced IMO. Let's say I have a Keelback being pirated by a Cobra. The Keelback can launch a fighter to defend itself, and it will be a wholly support ship - The Condor isn't going to do the killing, but instead will provide a slight distraction for the Cobra, and will slightly add to the DPS of the Keelback. The Condor/iFighter is going to be paper thin, but you need to hit it, and a competent player using silent running and chaff should be able to defend himself from an assailant, especially if that assailant is preoccupied with the mothership.

In the case of the larger cruisers, the Annie, 'Vette and Cutter - launching a couple of these fighters will be an excellent distraction against a wing of smaller vessels. If a wing of a couple of cobras and sidewinders attack the 'Conda, for example, the Anaconda can launch the fighters to deal with the Sidewinders while the Anaconda faces the Cobras. Also, if the 'Conda throws some turreted class one lasers on the bottom (which are extremely effective, I've found), it can give the Sidewinders enough trouble that the Condors can overtake them. i think player-piloted Condors are going to be major threats in Open Play.

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Also, I was under the impression that turrets did have trouble locking onto fighters or other fast ships. Gimbals are better as you can manoeuvre the ship to help them track the target.

Smaller turrets have better tracking. I wouldn't bet any money on a gimballed class 3 beam hitting a Condor, but class ones would tear it to . Like you say below, I think point defense would be a great defense against Condors.

I don't think we need to make them impossible to target, like SRVs.

As for point defence? That sounds nice.

As for the OP post, with AI Modules, I'm pretty sure FDev has said it wouldn't be AI. You won't hire NPC crew, but I think the deployable fighters will operate much like NPC fighters do now, though they will be in your wing, so that should make it easier to focus fire on the same target and assist them when they're in danger.

I don't see us getting direct fighter control like you're mentioning, but it's possible that we will get a function for their targeting systems, like our turrets:

• Fire at Will
• Forward Fire
• Target Only

Fire at Will is 'target any hostile and engage', and 'target only' is 'focus fire on my target'. Those two make perfect sense as NPC Fighter commands. I'm not sure what they could use in lieu of 'forward fire', but I don't think it'll be as specific as 'wanted only', and likely, their firing on targets will require you to scan the targets before you fire on them, just like turrets.

We are getting direct fighter control, I'm almost 100% sure FD has said that.

 

[aspiringexpatriate]

i think player-piloted Condors are going to be major threats in Open Play.

Agreed. I don't know how swimmingly it will operate with re-spawns and insurance costs. My assumption is that the respawn/restock process will operate like it does for SRVs in our PVHs. Your fighter exploding should re-spawn you in the ship you were crewing. But then the ship will have to dock again in order to claim insurance/restock and replace the fighter. So while it is likely to be effective, I'm not so sure how enduring it will be once the fighters start dropping like flies.

Right now, I can hold 4 SRVs in my Asp (which should have a max crew of 2). The question that leads to is they've said the Cutter and Corvette will max at 2 fighters. Presumably they will also require hangar modules. My first instinct was 2 fighters in a class 8 hangar, but the Corvette doesn't have a class 8. If we estimate that the fighters will be double the size/mass of the Scarab SRVs, then a class 6 hangar should hold 2 fighters. Even if the guesstimate is wrong, and a class 6 hangar can only hold 1 fighter, that explodes the possibilities for fighter deployment potential. If it's right, then the possibility exists that many ships, if not any ship, with a class 3 internal compartment has the potential to hold a fighter. Honestly, that sounds wrong to me, so I don't know where to go from here.

As for the Keelback reference, I've seen the photos pointing to the deployment-like hatch which implies fighter craft deployment, but I wonder if that could be for larger variations of SRV deployment. I've never heard anyone from FDev say the Keelback will have fighter deployment potential.

Smaller turrets have better tracking. I wouldn't bet any money on a gimballed class 3 beam hitting a Condor, but class ones would tear it to . Like you say below, I think point defense would be a great defense against Condors.

I'll have to test that small turret concept, once I fly a ship with a small hardpoint not well placed for fixed weapons.

We are getting direct fighter control, I'm almost 100% sure FD has said that.

We are getting the ability to directly pilot the fighters ourselves, any my assumption is that this will function like SRV deployment, not like the "neural-link" for the SRV's turret operation. That means there might not be instant-switching between flying the fighter and flying the ship. If that is the case, non-piloted fighters will need some form of indirect control. I believe we've been told that they would operate like NPCs, but still be in your Wing. We've never seen NPCs operate with a CMDR in Wing.

Will there be any form of indirect control? Or will they simply fly around and target the highest threat at random?

My assumption was to give the CMDR in the mothership access to three basic commands, much like how automated turret control operates.

• Fire at Will - target highest threat and engage, like run of the mill NPCs
• Fighters Only - instead of 'forward fire', direct your deployed fighters to engage enemy ships that you might encounter in CQC. (Condor, Imp, Sidewinder, Eagle)
• Target Only - fighters harass and focus fire on the target the mothership has selected

So yes, this list is based off of two large assumptions on my part, but those assumptions do fit with the level of realism and immersion FDev has provided us with so far. Without using another crew station, I don't see how a single CMDR will handle his/her own targets while also delegating scanned targets to individual NPC fighters. Sure, it's possible, but I don't see it functioning well.

 

[K-Rose]

Right now, I can hold 4 SRVs in my Asp (which should have a max crew of 2). The question that leads to is they've said the Cutter and Corvette will max at 2 fighters. Presumably they will also require hangar modules. My first instinct was 2 fighters in a class 8 hangar, but the Corvette doesn't have a class 8. If we estimate that the fighters will be double the size/mass of the Scarab SRVs, then a class 6 hangar should hold 2 fighters. Even if the guesstimate is wrong, and a class 6 hangar can only hold 1 fighter, that explodes the possibilities for fighter deployment potential. If it's right, then the possibility exists that many ships, if not any ship, with a class 3 internal compartment has the potential to hold a fighter. Honestly, that sounds wrong to me, so I don't know where to go from here.

The Keelback can hold a fighter, it states on the text when going to buy the ship. I think it'll be Class 5 for 1 fighter (This is the class the Keelback & FGS have) and Class 7 for 2 fighters.

 

[CTCParadox]

i think player-piloted Condors are going to be major threats in Open Play.

Are other fighters like the Eagle and Viper a big threat in PVP? I can't imagine a Condor doing anything an Eagle or Viper couldn't.
The biggest advantage the launched fighters will have is that they can piggyback off the bigger ships FSD for better jump range.

CMDR CTCParadox