Discussion Open Letter to Frontier Developments

[Artie]

I'm aware of that but some info should not be disclosed, trade routes and prices for example or ships' location, it breaks the immersion of the game, stations can't communicate with eachother cause of the huge distances, having to discover traderoutes and where to buy ships is part of the game, all the other stuff you mentioned should be ingame, there is no way to track your explorations right now

Well, there is still one communication channel that works - ships, more precisely couriers. I see no lore issue with principle that every ship has a computer, which saves some station data after docking (station prices, news, latest gossips, whatever) and then it uploads these data to any other station visited. There is just delay and the ship traffic will dictate how quick these information will spread. So, third party websites providing trade data are not so out of the game and it's lore - as somebody must visit the station to get the data, it works the similar way as described above.
And I ignore in-game lore stuff like Galnet news that is spread instantly in whole universe. It's just simplification of that principle. So if anybody will object that sharing trade/any other data gathered by humans with all it's disadvantages like that these may be outdated and so on is against the lore, then it also should object that stuff like Galnet news, CQC, chat, friend's position on the map and so on shouldn't be there as well. But as was said - it's a game.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Also you can be in SagA and still access the latest GalNet news... So the communications issue seems to be largely resolved in-universe already (even outside of CQC).

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Damn you and your speedy reply!

Still don't get how having few things in a game contradicts lore. They could introduce delay for GalNet if you are outside human space, but what would be the point there really.

 

[Cmdr Thrudd]

Third party engines such as Thrudd do not seem to be maintained by the users, data being up to 200 days out of date.

Yeah my site was getting out of date as I'd not yet hooked it up to EDDN and other sites were so they were getting more data. I've spent the last week sorting that out so things should improve greatly over the next week.

 

[mbar]

+rep to OP and good luck.

 

[Red Zodiac]

Yeah my site was getting out of date as I'd not yet hooked it up to EDDN and other sites were so they were getting more data. I've spent the last week sorting that out so things should improve greatly over the next week.

Thanks Thrudd, much appreciated.

 

[Cmdr_Prussian]

Prices should not be shared trough any kind of official API in my opinion, players should learn and discover trade routes themselves. Said that, I am not against players sharing that information, I just don't think FD have to encourage it. Other usages of API is cool in my book. I don't expect FD to concentrate on this yet though.

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Please don't tell me "I would write this down anyway" . If you want cheat in a game which is based heavily on finding stuff out yourself...well...maybe it is really wrong game to play then.

Oh...right.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

I'd like to add my support for an in-game API.

You don't even need to host an API server - you could have the game client host a local API.

A locally, game-client-hosted API would have a number of advantages;

1) As above, no need to run some AWS cloud-based API server

2) The local client obviously already has a whole host of information it needs to be part of the game

3) Automatic limitation of the information given to the system a player is in. (e.g. Market data is only available for the system the players is in).

4) The information given to a 3rd-party exploration app such as Captain's Log or EDDiscovery is again automatically limited to A) The system a player is in and B) What a player scans - so if an explorer for example jumps into a system, the only information the in-game API would supply initially is the star that's auto-discovered by the detailed scanner when you jump in. The API could then push info to the 3rd-party app as and when other bodies are scanned or discovered. Say the initial Space Honk - push whatever bodies are discovered by the ADS. Then you could push information as and when detailed scans are performed on the bodies themselves.

The examples in point 4 above are purely Quality of Life improvements - they're not turning the game into easy-mode.

So, yeah, let's have an API - but make it hosted by the game client rather than some external API server.

Regards o7

 

[Parmo]

OMG, Spoiler sites, if a large part of the community can't play without them then there is a huge issue, gamers becoming too lazy to find traderoutes the old way ? How is it possible they are even sharing that data? Doesn't it completely spoil the game if everything is already on a website?

Sorry that the rest of the world has moved on into the age of information while you are still content with Amiga 500 gameplay requiring the use of pencil and paper, but your whining won't stop the human need for information and communication. As long as the game itself stays devoid of the necessary tools, third party tools will continue to thrive. Most gamers don't have the time to blindly fly from station to station and keep documenting market prices until by mere chance they happen to stumble upon a profitable trade route.

Every previous iteration of Elite had better ingame Information about how to make a profit via trading.

Two valid view points of the game here.
But I'm with InMemoriamSirocco after thinking about the issue.
I remember playing Elite on the BBC Master in 1984 and there were magazine articles etc. giving advice on how to play it, what to start trading in etc.
Mark Lock, you are saying I should not have read these articles. I found them not only useful but they also increased my interest and enjoyment of the game.
People form communities, wishing to share information and their experiences, to help. It's a bit harsh to judge people to be lazy when they take advantage of this knowledge pool provided in good faith.
And all those YouTube videos on ED? Should we not look at them? Should we not read this forum? The official manual for the game?
These websites that provide huge amounts of data to enable people to play and enjoy their own experience of the game called ED are not 'spoliers'.
I don't use the sites on trading routes, I'm too lazy to figure them out. I just get in my cockpit and wander around, that's why I'm still poor (4 million in cash, not 4 billion) in the game. I'm not Elite in anything yet. And I've been playing since the release date. So, I play without the help of these 'spoiler sites'. But I have found the YT vids helpful and enjoyable.
[]
Doesn't it completely spoil the game if everything is already on a website?
No is the short answer.

 

[wolverine2710]

Prices should not be shared trough any kind of official API in my opinion, players should learn and discover trade routes themselves. Said that, I am not against players sharing that information, I just don't think FD have to encourage it. Other usages of API is cool in my book. I don't expect FD to concentrate on this yet though.

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Please don't tell me "I would write this down anyway" . If you want cheat in a game which is based heavily on finding stuff out yourself...well...maybe it is really wrong game to play then.

In general and not directed to the author of the post I respond to. I'm all for open communication as long as we all respect each other. I try hard no to tell others how they should play and enjoy a game. If we all try to be civilized this thread has its merits and doesn't derail

I've signed the open letter. As I started the EDDN trhead about reviving EMDN which resulted in Jamesremuscat creating EDDN - later Anthornet joined. I'm also the co-author of EDCodex - biobob is the coding genius. - we all know where I stand. I REALLY would like this thread to be a way where we can discuss things in a open and respectful manner. I'm hoping you all help to accomplish that goal.

 

[Flimley]

I like the idea of third party tools. The ship building site is most useful indeed. If some of these tools were brought into and integrated with the games menus it would for me make the E.D game richer and more involved.

I really like the idea of automatic ship logs, knowing where I have been and the ability to make notes, or to sift through some trading data now and then, or research a virtual ship build in outfitting prior to purchasing.
All these things would be a nice interesting addition to the game.

 

[Elan]

I also hope that more work is done to support an API, but the last I heard (Fantasticon 2015 Q&A) was that although it was still planned it was not planned to happen "Soon™"

 

[flint read]

I'm all for 3rd Party access to an Open and Published API.

FD has provided little in the way of "value-added" tools for ED and has so far ignored the revenue opportunity it represents.
Behaving in a "dog in a manger" fashion would do FD a great dis-service and I sincerely hope they provide a fully supported & published 3rd-party API ASAP.

My life has no time for purists that want to whinge about doing it the "old way". Slide-rules and notepads were the old way, computers and applications is the new way, get on board.

+1 what this chap said! plus stop being such a kill joy you don't have to use them do you? your just ironically being an elitist.

 

[Robbeh]

Still don't get how having few things in a game contradicts lore. They could introduce delay for GalNet if you are outside human space, but what would be the point there really.

The "immersion" and "lore" excuses are quite frankly , these mechanics are already here - Ingame features such as direct player to player communication, CQC, Galnet and powerplay system status' in the galaxy map already contradict the supposed "fact" that data cannot be transferred across long distances in the ED universe.

This is a 2015 > Forward game, its time to pull your head out of 1984.

 

[Mark Lock]

Well, there is still one communication channel that works - ships, more precisely couriers. I see no lore issue with principle that every ship has a computer, which saves some station data after docking (station prices, news, latest gossips, whatever) and then it uploads these data to any other station visited. There is just delay and the ship traffic will dictate how quick these information will spread. So, third party websites providing trade data are not so out of the game and it's lore - as somebody must visit the station to get the data, it works the similar way as described above.
And I ignore in-game lore stuff like Galnet news that is spread instantly in whole universe. It's just simplification of that principle. So if anybody will object that sharing trade/any other data gathered by humans with all it's disadvantages like that these may be outdated and so on is against the lore, then it also should object that stuff like Galnet news, CQC, chat, friend's position on the map and so on shouldn't be there as well. But as was said - it's a game.

Galnet is a news network, there could be ships getting the news to every system, CQC is just another game mode, you don't get to fight in your ASP, it's just like a simulator like Arena commander in Star Citizen, chat and other stuff is part of the game.

There reason why I think trade routes should not be on the website is cause it spoils the game and tell you where to go to make easy money, people should learn trade routes by playing the game and communicate with other people, not having a website tell you where to go to make money, that's lazy and gamebreaking, it's like a cheat

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

The "immersion" and "lore" excuses are quite frankly , these mechanics are already here - Ingame features such as direct player to player communication, CQC, Galnet and powerplay system status' in the galaxy map already contradict the supposed "fact" that data cannot be transferred across long distances in the ED universe.

This is a 2015 > Forward game, its time to pull your head out of 1984.

They aren't , in stories covered by lore they play rather interesting role. There's considerable delay of information traveling trough human space and writers play around it rather well. Regarding trading and other data it is obvious gameplay device so players would have to seek information themselves or trough other channels, or take a risk to follow trade routes. As I said before, it is game rewarding risk/decision making and if you want just press buttons and become richer automatically, maybe it is not that game then to play.

 

[InMemoriamSirocco]

Galnet is a news network, there could be ships getting the news to every system, CQC is just another game mode, you don't get to fight in your ASP, it's just like a simulator like Arena commander in Star Citizen, chat and other stuff is part of the game.

There reason why I think trade routes should not be on the website is cause it spoils the game and tell you where to go to make easy money, people should learn trade routes by playing the game and communicate with other people, not having a website tell you where to go to make money, that's lazy and gamebreaking, it's like a cheat

By your logic, the entire Newcomer section of this forum, as well as the "Guides & Tutorials" section are cheating. Sorry, but I consider your opinion on this invalid.

 

[Mark Lock]

Sorry that the rest of the world has moved on into the age of information while you are still content with Amiga 500 gameplay requiring the use of pencil and paper, but your whining won't stop the human need for information and communication. As long as the game itself stays devoid of the necessary tools, third party tools will continue to thrive. Most gamers don't have the time to blindly fly from station to station and keep documenting market prices until by mere chance they happen to stumble upon a profitable trade route.

Every previous iteration of Elite had better ingame Information about how to make a profit via trading.

I appreciate your sarcasm but ... that's just like going to some game megazine and reading the solution cause you can't figure out how to play the game and explore, make money, all they should need to add is an ingame notepad where players write down stuff, like discoveries and prices, no need to use websites to find profitable stuff to do, however that's a choice, I honestly don't like having to use a website to find stuff to advantage me, the only one type of website I like are wiki explaining game mechanics and ships' features, maybe how to craft a particular object, other than that, I prefer discovering stuff myself

 

[Leo Sagan]

My life has no time for purists that want to whinge about doing it the "old way". Slide-rules and notepads were the old way, computers and applications is the new way, get on board.

Understandable. Furthermore, last time I checked, one could still buy slide-rules and notepads, and nobody is forcing anyone to use these online tools , so everyone should be able to eat his cake his own way just fine.

 

[Artie]

Well, if we ignore trade data for now, there are many other things that can be shared with community via official API. Star system information like on galactic map, personal records and progress, powerplay changes, etc. This stuff is already visible in the game, but getting the data outside the game is complicated. It can serve for various statistics, galactic encyclopedia, etc. This stuff can be hardly taken as "gamebreaking" or "cheating". Let's not forget it's not just about trading and official API can have various other benefits.

 

[wolverine2710]

Galnet is a news network, there could be ships getting the news to every system, CQC is just another game mode, you don't get to fight in your ASP, it's just like a simulator like Arena commander in Star Citizen, chat and other stuff is part of the game.

There reason why I think trade routes should not be on the website is cause it spoils the game and tell you where to go to make easy money, people should learn trade routes by playing the game and communicate with other people, not having a website tell you where to go to make money, that's lazy and gamebreaking, it's like a cheat

Personally I think commanders should have the freedom to decide for themselves how they enjoy a game the most and what fits their needs best. Some have a family, limited time, just don't like to write everything down, like help to reduce trade grinding time etc...Blaze your own trail so to say.