More Ships Needed in the Mid Range.

[Galdatron]

Seems like I've been stuck in my Vulture for a long time and whilst it's a great ship, I've been itching for something new however, the financial gap between that and the 'next ship' is huge.

I know, many players say there is no 'next ship', it's all a matter of what you like, play style etc, but I think there needs be a couple of more ship options (even just one) between Vulture & Python in the combat ship department that doesn't include ranks so players have something that's more progressional in terms of both ship ability/performance and financially.

This in my mind would ease the boredom threshold of flying the same ship, doing the same activities in order to make enough credits for something new. I drifted away from the game for a few months purely because things became far too repetitive. Powerplay has added a lot more variety but doing anything worthwhile that earns decent credits feels like a grind. A long one.

I am going for Baron rank so I can get a clipper but the grind for rank is painful. Painful also to learn upon my return that people could buy one for a short period without rank, but ho hum, that's life. I totally agree that there should be ships that require work, I'm happy with that, but there also needs to be more options in the mid range purely to give the player some more variety.

 

[MottiKhan]

Seems like I've been stuck in my Vulture for a long time and whilst it's a great ship, I've been itching for something new however, the financial gap between that and the 'next ship' is huge.

I know, many players say there is no 'next ship', it's all a matter of what you like, play style etc, but I think there needs be a couple of more ship options (even just one) between Vulture & Python in the combat ship department that doesn't include ranks so players have something that's more progressional in terms of both ship ability/performance and financially.

This in my mind would ease the boredom threshold of flying the same ship, doing the same activities in order to make enough credits for something new. I drifted away from the game for a few months purely because things became far too repetitive. Powerplay has added a lot more variety but doing anything worthwhile that earns decent credits feels like a grind. A long one.

I am going for Baron rank so I can get a clipper but the grind for rank is painful. Painful also to learn upon my return that people could buy one for a short period without rank, but ho hum, that's life. I totally agree that there should be ships that require work, I'm happy with that, but there also needs to be more options in the mid range purely to give the player some more variety.

The Python isn't the next step above a Vulture. I'd say the FAS is. If you don't have the rank, the FDL is a nice step up. I have an a-rated Python, but don't care for the handling. I certainly wouldn't look at it as a step up from the Vulture for combat. Mine stays parked until I need it for a specific task. It's right there next to my Clipper.

Don't get me wrong. The Python is a nice ship. It works well for its purpose. For pure combat, I'd take my FAS or FDL over it though.

 

[Deadspin]

The Python isn't the next step above a Vulture. I'd say the FAS is. If you don't have the rank, the FDL is a nice step up. I have an a-rated Python, but don't care for the handling. I certainly wouldn't look at it as a step up from the Vulture for combat. Mine stays parked until I need it for a specific task. It's right there next to my Clipper.

Don't get me wrong. The Python is a nice ship. It works well for its purpose. For pure combat, I'd take my FAS or FDL over it though.

I see what you're saying but I think this is more of a price issue. The Vultue is a 4.5-5mil ship on hull alone. Once A fitted you're probably into the high teens if not low twenties. The FAS is 19 mil but grows to almost 85-90 million, same with the Clipper and Python, though their end range is closer to 110-120 million. FDL sits in FAS range but has the higher base cost.
.
What we need are 1-2 multi-role or specific role ships to sit in that 40-50 million total cost area. Something with a base hull maybe between 10-20 million and an end price (A fit) of about 45-50. That would be a decent middle ground and then from there you could easily add in ships that are 3-10mil cheaper or a bit more expensive. The Vulture and the Asp are kind of the long haul middle ground ships that I've noticed a lot of my peers spend a lot of time in because there's nothing affordable (Or nothing that immediately stands out as "next tier of ship" to move towards) that's better or they have to wait and grind up the cash just for the hull price.

 

[Kristov]

Seems like I've been stuck in my Vulture for a long time and whilst it's a great ship, I've been itching for something new however, the financial gap between that and the 'next ship' is huge.

I know, many players say there is no 'next ship', it's all a matter of what you like, play style etc, but I think there needs be a couple of more ship options (even just one) between Vulture & Python in the combat ship department that doesn't include ranks so players have something that's more progressional in terms of both ship ability/performance and financially.

This in my mind would ease the boredom threshold of flying the same ship, doing the same activities in order to make enough credits for something new. I drifted away from the game for a few months purely because things became far too repetitive. Powerplay has added a lot more variety but doing anything worthwhile that earns decent credits feels like a grind. A long one.

I am going for Baron rank so I can get a clipper but the grind for rank is painful. Painful also to learn upon my return that people could buy one for a short period without rank, but ho hum, that's life. I totally agree that there should be ships that require work, I'm happy with that, but there also needs to be more options in the mid range purely to give the player some more variety.

Actually, the next combat ship is the Federal A/D/G Ships, there's no other dedicated combat vessel between the Vulture and the Corvette. The Python is a multipurpose ship, it's good at combat due to it's size and weapon capacity, but that's all. Get a couple of Vultures on my Python and I'm in a world of hurt really quick, it's simply impossible to keep them under the guns unless you go turrets, and turrets are so easy to render useless with chaff, I won't use them for that reason, despite wishing many times I HAD used them

The Clipper is better for combat due to it's agility, don't let the shipyard stats fool you, she handles very nicely. Not quite as good on the weapon capacity as the Python, can't land on Medium pads either, so she's more restricted, but definitely, in my opinion, better for combat overall due to that agility. I'm flying a Python because I want to be able to land at Outposts and small surface bases, opens up a lot more mission options for me, and smuggling runs to/from those Outposts tend to pay pretty well.

The Asp Explorer is, believe it or not, a good combat ship as well, only a few million more than your Vulture, a HELL of lot less than the Clipper or Python. Same with the Asp Scout, good combat ship, very agile, and the cockpit view on the Asp's is just amazing. Since you are a pirate according to your RP info, I'd personally suggest the Clipper, hands down, one of the best pirate vessels. Speed to catch anything but a Cobra MkIII which you can keep close enough long enough to cripple, and you can run away from anything due that as the Cobra can't mass lock a Clipper. Enough cargo space to be useful for a pirate as well, pretty much the quintessential pirate ship, and it's dead sexy.

If you want to JUST kill stuff, the Federal ships work very well at that, but lack cargo space so not much good at the pirating bit...

 

[Philip Foster]

The Python isn't the next step above a Vulture. I'd say the FAS is. If you don't have the rank, the FDL is a nice step up. I have an a-rated Python, but don't care for the handling. I certainly wouldn't look at it as a step up from the Vulture for combat. Mine stays parked until I need it for a specific task. It's right there next to my Clipper.

Don't get me wrong. The Python is a nice ship. It works well for its purpose. For pure combat, I'd take my FAS or FDL over it though.

I agree with a lot of this but I had a Vulture for pure combat and found that the Python can be just as effective. More so in some cases. I tried out the FDL and found I still do just as well in the Python. Two class 3 beam lasers seem to do a better job than than four medium beamers and 2x class 2 and 1x class 3 cannon seem to do a similar job to 1x class 4 cannon. I think the Python has better weapon placement too. Just my experience. The shields on the Python can also take a greater battering than the FDL or the Vulture. I love the way the Vulture and the FDL can dance around the targets without too much effort but flown well (with more effort I admit) the Python can certainly dance around larger ships.

I'll concede the point about the handling, after a fashion. I quite like it although you use a hell of a lot of FA OFF and boosting on the thrusters, flying backwards etc. I like the FDL a lot but as I say I can do just as good a job in the Python despite it's lower speed and agility, the FDL/Vultures other shortcomings like poor jump range, small fuel tank, limited internals mean they are fun combat ships but I am a bit of a nomad. The Python is my home in the game and I need a good multirole ship.

 

[Gisk]

I think the same. I have a Vulture for combat and an Asp for trading, and moving up to a larger ship from any of these is quite difficult. This is much more noticeable in the case of the Vulture; I have both, but if you only like the combat playstyle, earning enough cash to move up can take months. That's actually my case, I'm a very casual player (I don't have much time to play) and even though I play Elite since launch (last december) I haven't earnt enough credits to move up yet.

Community goals have partially solved the issue, but I still think there's room for two more ships (a fighter and a multirole), one above the Vulture and another one above the Asp. And for those people that argue that the vulture is a "top tier pure fighter" in its own right... I don't think that's wrong, but that doesn't contradict the idea of having a *larger* ship right above it that doesn't cost $40M more.

 

[Troa Barton]

Personally this was why I was hoping the cobra and viper Mark 4 would be medium upgrades of their previous incarnations.
if they were built as competition to the vulture at higher price points with different loudouts and characteristics much like the relationship between the eagle, viper, and cobra early on. It would be a better place for them instead of the overcrowded small ship 2M 2S market and would have filled the gap you're talking about.
id also like to see a medium combat focused diamondback variant, a gunship that sits between the FAS and FGS.

 

[shambles1980]

python is a step up from an asp.. But plenty capable as a fighter.

 

[EddyRockSteady]

Seems like I've been stuck in my Vulture for a long time and whilst it's a great ship, I've been itching for something new however, the financial gap between that and the 'next ship' is huge.....

Get a smuggling Asp and you'll get filthy rich in an afternoon running long range smuggling missions.

 

[Soothsayer]

Get a smuggling Asp and you'll get filthy rich in an afternoon running long range smuggling missions.

That's a bit of an exaggeration, since "filthy rich" in ED would be well over a billion credits. You could certainly be "filthy rich" within a few weeks of smuggling, although I'm skeptical FD will allow things to continue as they are. I wouldn't be surprised if a patch were on the way to nerf Shadow Delivery missions. Fixing the mission refresh exploit would pretty much kill long-range smuggling.

 

[Kristov]

That's a bit of an exaggeration, since "filthy rich" in ED would be well over a billion credits. You could certainly be "filthy rich" within a few weeks of smuggling, although I'm skeptical FD will allow things to continue as they are. I wouldn't be surprised if a patch were on the way to nerf Shadow Delivery missions. Fixing the mission refresh exploit would pretty much kill long-range smuggling.

Thought they already fixed the mission reset by mode changing? As for the Shadow Delivery missions, enough complaints about how they are impossible, so I'm not thinking FD is going to see any need to fix anything. Don't personally have a problem with them, but then again, I don't boost under silent running to show everyone within a parsec where I am either, so...

 

[Don Alvarez]

A contributing factor to this issue is that in all truthfulness the Vulture is way underpriced for its capability. The base sticker price should probably be about doubled and Power Plant and FSD both increased to class 5. That would have the end price sitting right about where you want, slap some fuel tanks on it and bill it as a long range interceptor.

 

[Katie Byrne]

yeah 20 - 50m is a bit sparse in ED. yeah there's the fed gunship at 35 but we could really do with more

 

[grae3107]

I think the 'next ship' can only be dictated by what you feel like doing and how much fun you have in a certain ship. I have 155 million in credits and have gone back to flying a cobra mkIII. I never look at my credits balance to decide what my next ship should be.

 

[Slack]

The shields on the Python can also take a greater battering than the FDL or the Vulture.

Not so much... Python and Vulture have almost identical shield value and an FDL has almost 50% more shields than either of those ships.

With maxed out A rated shields(regular) and boosters, the maximum shield values are:

Vulture: 697mj
Python: 714mj
FDL: 1024mj

 

[Don Alvarez]

Not so much... Python and Vulture have almost identical shield value and an FDL has almost 50% more shields than either of those ships.

With maxed out A rated shields(regular) and boosters, the maximum shield values are:

Vulture: 697mj
Python: 714mj
FDL: 1024mj

Those numbers are just academic though. There's no way a Vulture can achieve that shield capacity and have enough power remaining to drive any weapons. Pythons and FDL's can make those numbers work however.

 

[Bacalao]

Not so much... Python and Vulture have almost identical shield value and an FDL has almost 50% more shields than either of those ships.

With maxed out A rated shields(regular) and boosters, the maximum shield values are:

Vulture: 697mj
Python: 714mj
FDL: 1024mj

So long as you totally ignore the potency of SCBs this stands up.

 

[Soothsayer]

Thought they already fixed the mission reset by mode changing? As for the Shadow Delivery missions, enough complaints about how they are impossible, so I'm not thinking FD is going to see any need to fix anything. Don't personally have a problem with them, but then again, I don't boost under silent running to show everyone within a parsec where I am either, so...

Mission cycling does still work, although it's sometimes inconsistent. I've just completed my second Robigo run of the day, which was 14 missions. Cycling doesn't always work properly, and I'll often see the same missions even after a couple of resets, but it's still possible.

 

[Philip Foster]

Not so much... Python and Vulture have almost identical shield value and an FDL has almost 50% more shields than either of those ships.

With maxed out A rated shields(regular) and boosters, the maximum shield values are:

Vulture: 697mj
Python: 714mj
FDL: 1024mj

True but it is easier to use shield boosters and SCBs on a Python. It has very few power issues.

You can stick 4xA0 shield boosters on a Vulture but you won't be packing much else.

 

[Rocky-451]

I agree about the lack of mid-range combat ships that don't require ranks, though I suspect this is intentional (to encourage people to join). I mostly used the charity method to reach the rank required for the FAS, and it wasn't that painful; actually it was well worth it because the FAS is such a fantastic ship. If you haven't look into this method for Empire ranking, check out these threads: Empire Ranking - Charity Missions, Fast Ranking.