Are NPC's Low IQ Crazed/Psycho Killers?

Werewolf13

Werewolf13
...See subject.

I just don't get it. NPC's seem to attack for no apparent reason other than a desire to destroy which even in game terms makes no sense at all.

I play as a bounty hunter. I travel in a Cobra MKIII kitted as a combat vessel. No cargo holds, no discovery scanners, no anything unless it makes my Cobra a better killer of the scum of the galaxy.

A simple scan by the NPC, especially pirate NPC's, that I'm not an easy mark, have nothing of value to steal and don't have a bounty of any sort on me. YET! The stupid suckers will drag me out of hyperspace. Why? If they kill me - which doesn't happen very often all it does is raise their bounty and make 'em better targets. Or - which happens more often than not - they die making the effort.

I can almost understand a Pirate pulling me out of hyperspace - especially one that may be an enforcer or protector or something. Killing a bounty hunter would make the other pirate's in his faction's job a lot safer and easier. If I was escorting some juicy heavily loaded freighter (why aren't there escort missions in this game) I could understand it but to just snatch me out of hypercruise and take me on for no profit? That's just the action of either a very, very stupid bad guy or a psycho killer.

Surely the DEVS of ED can do better than that?
 

Kazacy

Kazacy
Seems you don't like the dangerous part from Elite Dangerous. If you really want a reason think of this: you entered on their territory and because you aren't allied with them you are an enemy.
For example, for me territory means the whole galaxy and enemies are all commanders unaffiliated with Archon Delaine or in my friends list. Pretty easy to remember and i have a lot of targets.
Happy hunting.
 
Last edited:

thorn-

thorn-
Werewolf13 said:
I just don't get it. NPC's seem to attack for no apparent reason other than a desire to destroy which even in game terms makes no sense at all.
Click to expand...

Real players do this too; perhaps NPCs also enjoy PvP.

There's rarely profit in PvP. In fact, over time it will COST you money - either in insurance claims, or damage repair.

But as many love to say on these forums, "Elite isn't about CREDITS. If your goal is credits, and you're bored - well, the problem is you have the wrong goal." If your goal is fun, and you enjoy combat, then the reason for initiating it is simple to understand.
 

drholliday

D
For the pulling part...there's no way to scan cargo in sc. And unless NPCs aren't cheating pulling you is the only way to scan you. In normal space however their actions indeed quite often make no sense whatsoever.

A single Harmless Eagle that 'wants it all' against an Elite combat Anaconda without ANY cargo isn't really a good idea because all he ever can and will get is the plasma ammo ... straight into his face.
 

Werewolf13

Werewolf13
drholliday said:
For the pulling part...there's no way to scan cargo in sc. And unless NPCs aren't cheating pulling you is the only way to scan you. In normal space however their actions indeed quite often make no sense whatsoever.

A single Harmless Eagle that 'wants it all' against an Elite combat Anaconda without ANY cargo isn't really a good idea because all he ever can and will get is the plasma ammo ... straight into his face.
Click to expand...

That's a very good point. Makes sense. But!
If they immediately go hostile they haven't bothered to scan and make rational decision whether or not to move on or attack for a reason that will gain them something.
 

ChubbyBunneh

ChubbyBunneh
Pretty much, yes.

Back in Gamma a wanted NPC Anaconda interdicted my Viper which was carrying 8 tons of food cartridges.

He shot my cargo hatch open and then started spamming the local channel about the vast treasure hoard he just scored.

Then system authority showed up and we killed him. Hope those food cartridges were worth it.

As far as I can tell that strange behavior hasn't changed.
 

Werewolf13

Werewolf13
Kazacy said:
Seems you don't like the dangerous part from Elite Dangerous. If you really want a reason think of this: you entered on their territory and because you aren't allied with them you are an enemy.
For example, for me territory means the whole galaxy and enemies are all commanders unaffiliated with Archon Delaine or in my friends list. Pretty easy to remember and i have a lot of targets.
Happy hunting.
Click to expand...

I love the dangerous part.
What I don't like is the insanity part.
Bad guys are predators and human bad guys behave pretty much like non-human predators. They attack the weak and avoid the strong because going after the strong really isn't a career enhancing decision. And most successful predators are not stupid. The dumb ones go to prison or get killed.

So by connecting the dots we are to believe that a 1000 years in the future that predator types with enough smarts to buy or steal a high tech space ship and operate it are in fact just lucky and are somehow too stupid or too crazy to avoid those other people plying the space lanes that are capable of killing them and ending their careers post haste.

This is the 21'st century and gaming has come a long way. One would expect that by now that devs would at least make an attempt to have NPC's in a game behave in a rational and reasonable manner befitting the type of character they represent and that includes the evil types who can only survive by either being very good at masking their evil, or being very successful at being evil. And news flash - they don't become that way by ing off the sheep and attracting the attention of the authorities at least not until they've acquired the power to not care whether or not they :):):):) off the sheeple or attract the attention of the authorities.

Then again: Maybe the folks in 31st century are living in a Galaxy of the Idiocracy!
 

TomP

TomP
When I am interdicted by a shieldless, mostly harmless Eagle, who claims he is going to "boil me up", as I destroy him in a single salvo from a heavily armed Python, I do start to wonder a little about the IQ of the Pirates in this game.
 

Werewolf13

Werewolf13
TomP said:
When I am interdicted by a shieldless, mostly harmless Eagle, who claims he is going to "boil me up", as I destroy him in a single salvo from a heavily armed Python, I do start to wonder a little about the IQ of the Pirates in this game.
Click to expand...

Ding, ding, ding....
We have a winner!

Thanks man! You just made my day. Laugh out loud and oh so true. The perfect response. :D
 

Kazacy

Kazacy
To be honest in my first days of playing ED i atacked with my sidewinder bigger ships than mine; except one case, it always ended bad, but this is the only way i can learn.
 

MottiKhan

MottiKhan
Low IQ? Yes, of course. By their very nature, programmed characters have no intelligence at all. also, if you've ever programmed a computer, you'll know that it's incredibly dumb. It'll do exactly what you tell it and nothing more. Even if you tell it wrong, it'll just press on through the command without thinking.

Crazed/Psycho Killers? Yes again. If you came across a person or even an animal that acted like them, you'd classify them as crazed and psycho killers. Yes, it's a good description.

That's not a bad thing though. A few psycho killers never hurt anyone. Right? ;)
 

Surly_Badger

Surly_Badger
I always thought it'd be great if someday, in some game, the game designers thought to code a boss or NPC that had a more realistic attitude:
"OH, great. Another party of unkillable player characters who are just going to respawn endlessly until I finally die of despair. They're probably from Season XIV, which means they could swat me like a mosquito if they wanted to. Oh, well, when the dark lord says 'go' I go. This is a foregone conclusion, anyway..."
(at 1/2 damage)
"See, I told you, they're just gonna crush me. It's such a drag being a mid-tier minion..."
(about to fall)
"If this game was fair this is where I'd transform into my Season XVI self and make these guys sweat a little, but ... all I have is this useless predictable attack rotation. (sigh) Kill me now and save me the trouble of hanging myself."
(killed)
"Yup.... (groan) told you."
 

Kazacy

Kazacy
Surly_Badger said:
I always thought it'd be great if someday, in some game, the game designers thought to code a boss or NPC that had a more realistic attitude:
"OH, great. Another party of unkillable player characters who are just going to respawn endlessly until I finally die of despair. They're probably from Season XIV, which means they could swat me like a mosquito if they wanted to. Oh, well, when the dark lord says 'go' I go. This is a foregone conclusion, anyway..."
(at 1/2 damage)
"See, I told you, they're just gonna crush me. It's such a drag being a mid-tier minion..."
(about to fall)
"If this game was fair this is where I'd transform into my Season XVI self and make these guys sweat a little, but ... all I have is this useless predictable attack rotation. (sigh) Kill me now and save me the trouble of hanging myself."
(killed)
"Yup.... (groan) told you."
Click to expand...
After i read your post i remembered this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7N67hn0TlA
 

tiger61378

tiger61378
Yeah...there are some real, er, winners amounst the AI pirates in the game. Flying around in my bounty hunting Dropship, heavily armed & mostly A-spec, and a harmless, shieldless Sidewinder pulls me. Ok...not sure its even worth the effort to kill you, but you started this...deploy hardpoints and he chimes in with "So you choose death, then". Really dude, take a close look at the mismatch, and think a bit? At least those never cost me ammo, I run pure pulse on my bounty hunting ships.

I DO wish we could talk back to the AI though...I'd LOVE to chime back with the "you choose death" idiots in small, defenseless ships with a comment like "Yes, I do...YOURS" :D
 

Rankaze

Rankaze
Werewolf13 said:
...See subject.

I just don't get it. NPC's seem to attack for no apparent reason other than a desire to destroy which even in game terms makes no sense at all.

I play as a bounty hunter. I travel in a Cobra MKIII kitted as a combat vessel. No cargo holds, no discovery scanners, no anything unless it makes my Cobra a better killer of the scum of the galaxy.

A simple scan by the NPC, especially pirate NPC's, that I'm not an easy mark, have nothing of value to steal and don't have a bounty of any sort on me. YET! The stupid suckers will drag me out of hyperspace. Why? If they kill me - which doesn't happen very often all it does is raise their bounty and make 'em better targets. Or - which happens more often than not - they die making the effort.

I can almost understand a Pirate pulling me out of hyperspace - especially one that may be an enforcer or protector or something. Killing a bounty hunter would make the other pirate's in his faction's job a lot safer and easier. If I was escorting some juicy heavily loaded freighter (why aren't there escort missions in this game) I could understand it but to just snatch me out of hypercruise and take me on for no profit? That's just the action of either a very, very stupid bad guy or a psycho killer.

Surely the DEVS of ED can do better than that?
Click to expand...

I've never been a pirate, but I don't believe scanners can see cargo racks and other systems that don't draw power when you're in supercruise. Since the Cobra is a multi-role ship, for all they know, you could be an armed trader. The only way they could know for sure that you have no cargo is if all your internal slots are filled with modules that show up on scan in supercruise, which would mean you are running one seriously heavy Cobra. For example, the AI can't tell the difference between a cargo rack and hull reinforcement package.

That said, the AI will interdict you even if you are flying a dedicated fighter (Eagle/Viper/Vulture/FdL) stuffed to the gills with combat systems. And it will sometimes still demand cargo. On my last trip to the HAZRES in Cockaigne in my Fer-de-Lance, I got interdicted twice (once on the way there, once on the way back). Considering the modules I have slotted, the most possible cargo I could have been carrying based on what you could see from scanning me in supercruise is 2T (all of my other internal slots were filled with power-drawing systems; the size 1 slot has a 1C fuel tank in it to improve my mobility a bit). Both interdictors demanded cargo.

That said, there are two things that have always annoyed me about the AI.

1). It will attack you in situations where there is no rational reason for it to do so
Examples:
- AI pirate interdicts ship extremely unlikely to be carrying cargo (Eagle, Viper, Fer-de-Lance, etc.) and demands cargo (AI has no financial incentive to attack)
- AI pirate interdicts pilot with much better Pilot's Federation rating than the pirate has flying a much better ship than the pirate has (AI is suicidal)
- AI pirate with no shields interdicts anyone (AI is too stupid to live)

2). AI pirates in RES advertise their presence by repeatedly scanning you and comm'ing you while they are scanning you... while your Fer-de-Lance is busily ripping apart another pirate ship (AI is again too stupid to live)

It's funny, because they did in fact make some changes to the AI so that OCCASIONALLY it will decide that discretion is the better part of successful piracy, but... for the most part, no, the AI is still too stupid to live.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

tiger61378 said:
I DO wish we could talk back to the AI though...I'd LOVE to chime back with the "you choose death" idiots in small, defenseless ships with a comment like "Yes, I do...YOURS" :D
Click to expand...

So very much this.

Also...
Pirate: What are you hauling?
Me: Hot laser death for pirates.


EDIT: After talking to one of my friends about this... I think I am henceforth going to assume that the worst of the "too dumb to live" AI pirates are hopped up on Leestian Evil Juice or something. It's the only thing that makes sense out of their behavior.
 
Last edited:

Sapyx

Sapyx
Some of the "pirates" are indeed openly psycho. I've seen some comm me at the start of their attack run, saying something like "scans are for losers, I'll just blow you up and scoop up your debris". Hello, but unless you're specifically targetting my cargo hatch, I'm not going to drop anything before blowing up.

I'd really like to see some "cowardly pirates". Ones that, after pulling you out, go "Eek! You're a bounty hunter! Sorry, sir, so sorry... here, have some cargo, just don't blow me up!"

But agree, NPC pirate demands need to be fixed. Especially the whole thing where an Eagle demands a T9 dump its entire hold before they'll leave you alone. And the demanding of cargo from people who ain't got any.
 

CMDR Byr Goefin

C
The only song on the AIs playlist:

Psycho Killer
Qu'est-ce que c'est
Fa-fa-fa better
Run, run, run, run, run, run, run, away...

[video=youtube_share;yX6FsTIq6ls]https://youtu.be/yX6FsTIq6ls[/video]
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom